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This week, Hillsdale President Dr. Larry Arnn stops by to make the intellectual and academic argument for Donald Trump (h/t to Ricochet member @rushbabe49 for her post This Might Change some Minds on the Election). Can the good doctor sway @roblong, the resident #NeverTrump representative on this podcast, into voting for the Republican nominee? The answer lies within.
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Bad Case of Loving You by Robert Palmer
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You used the term “opponent” – I’m just following your logic here.
Again, the point is that self-deception and wish-thinking lead you down some very, very bad roads. As is frequently the case, moar isn’t a very good prescription…
A claim I’ve never heard anyone make.
If #nevertrumpers stopped attacking strawmen they’d have more credibility.
Indeed.
And who are you, exactly, to determine the amount of someone’s self-deception?
I remind you, this is a tough election. You’ll get through it a little easier by not appointing yourself armchair psychologist.
For the millions of people who will choose to vote for Trump, there are millions of reasons. It is the height of hubris for you to write it off as “self deception”.
My eyes are wide open, thanks very much. No need to be worried on my account.
There is a wonderful discussion to be had on how we got here and on who is to blame. And there have been those discussions on Ricochet. And hopefully we’ve all learned.
But right now we have Hilarie or Trump. It sucks. But it’s the reality.
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My bad
i thought we were talking about Peter Robinson, Dr Arnn, and the podcast.
I think the Democrat candidate’s first name is spelled “Hillary,” and this is, in fact, a false statement.
What disturbs me about this election is seeing things that the left does being done by the right. The left unfriends someone for differing opinions, the left ascribes motive to someone because of their opinions instead of arguing the ideas. People are not contributing to Hillsdale because of Larry Arnn’s Luke warm support of trump who is literally the one candidate in this race (a race with one of two outcomes) who at least is for a modicum of limited government and has said would appoint conservatives to the SCOTUs. In this country where every university and college is a bastion of leftist indoctrination which has led this country to where it is today people will pull their support of one of the few who don’t indoctrinate students in leftist ideology because of a disagreement. Dr Arnn is making a decision based on the choices he is left with that is all. That doesn’t make him insane or immoral or a completly different person from elections in the past. Don’t assign motive to people you disagree with, rob did that in this podcast which showed his emotional cards. Don’t let hate cloud your judgement. Perhaps you should read the new book out Stolen sovereignty by Daniel Horowitz to see what we’re up against regarding the Supreme Court
A few points, if I may. Dr. Arnn’s support did not sound lukewarm to me. Actions have consequences. No one is entitled to my money. Not Hillsdale. Not Donald Trump. Not any specific candidate for office. Not any charity. I give my money as a gift. Dr. Arnn has a podium that extends beyond the Hillsdale campus and has made a choice to publicly articulate his support for a candidate who I find uniquely unfit for office of possibly of great danger to the republic and to the world. I don’t feel I need to continue to contribute to fund a messenger who is the face of Hillsdale who promotes that. I am not calling for people to boycott Hillsdale or withhold their own funding of it. My decision is a personal one and I have made the decision that my money can help other people or causes I believe to be more worthy of it at this time. Others can certainly do what they wish with their own money. Finally, I have not accused Arnn of being insane or immoral and am always dismayed (but not terribly surprised) that a discussion like this often ratchets up to that kind of hyperbole. I have heard Arnn often and know him to be intelligent and insightful. But I believe, on this matter – his decision to be a public promoter of Trump – is misguided, that’s all and that his support for Trump is possibly damaging the reputation of Hillsdale which should be of concern to him.
Morning Brian,
Dr. Arnn made reference to the idea that the state might overwhelm its citizens. Very recently the Dept of Justice turned down an FBI request to investigate the Clinton Foundation, this same Dept of Justice pounded the Baltimore police as too aggressive in its actions especially and these actions show a systemic racial bias. This DOJ report does not focus on the fact that this was the bloodiest year in Baltimore’s history, see Heather MacDonald: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438900/. We hear from a CentCom whistle-blower that intel reports have been doctored to provide support for the false political assertions about gains against Isis. Recently a judge has instructed the IRS to show how it has stopped blocking Wacko birds, and groups who support Israel. In reviewing the effects of IRS activity it seems that one of the beneficiaries were Republican incubents whose Wacko bird rivals could not fund raise as well as they might have. Dr. Arnn worries that the bureaucratic regulatory state grows and becomes a political tool the government will over power the people. I agree and I think Clinton will have an eager ally in the bureaucracy and Trump will have an enemy.
Concerning risk of war, Hyden, Gates, and Morrell think that Clinton’s server was hacked and that Russia, China, maybe Iran have all the email. I think that there might be embarrassing or criminal information in those emails and that Russia, China, or Iran would use those emails to their advantage. You worry about the Baltic states, I believe that if push came to shove, and Clinton thought her presidency was at risk, she would sell out any country even ours. Also many wars have started when hostile countries thought they held a position of advantage. I think that our enemies think now that they are in a strong position against the USA, with Clinton nothing will improve. It is true that Trump is an unknown, but we know he loves this country and the armed forces and the police and we know that Clinton detests much of the country especially the armed forces (who she has detested since college), and the police.
You may think my worries are not well supported, and that Trump will harm the country. I think that Clinton is a much greater hazard. In my life time Clinton is the greediest and most deceitful politician. I think when Rob dismisses Dr.Arnn, he is not thinking in a conservative fashion, he is not humble enough to imagine that he may be mistaken.
Jim,
I’m not going to litigate all of this right now because of some personal time constraints I have at the moment suffice to say that my thoughts about Clinton’s criminality and unsuitability for office are well known here and given Trump’s record, the notion that somehow he will behave in a rational or conservative-leaning way is wishful thinking. I believe on domestic or foreign policy he will be no different than Clinton and in some cases much worse. I’m not voting for either nominee.
Is anyone else surprised there are only 120 subscribers ?
This is a legitimate questions to quench my own curiosity so please don’t get defensive if you are Never Trump. Dennis Prager had Daniel Henninger from the WSJ on. The WSJ editorial board is split between never trump and reluctant trump. Henninger commented that he felt that the NT folks were more foreign policy Hawk types and were not as focuses on domestic issues such as social issues or domestic economic issues . Aside from the trade issue where I believe the president doesn’t have the power to implement tariffs on economic goods anyway unless passed by congress anyway, but is his theory true? Is the concern more on foreign policy rather than domestic issues? Again this is legitimate to try to understand your position
This is Henninger’s article supporting his position it is behind the paywall so only those who subscribe to the WSJ can read the whole thing but it is there
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-clinton-default-mistake-1470869369?mobile=y
I hope this figure refers to a monthly goal of new members but, given the length of time it’s taking to fix the alert function . . .
Thank you so much for pointing that out. Imagine my horror. Are you sure you knew who I was talking about? Do you need more details?
See – at some point there’s no need to assume good faith on the other side when the other side has proven there is none.
Ok I’ll bite. Could you give some factual or recent historical trend that shows that the next President will not be the Democrat or Republican nominee?
The issue I see with Mr. Arnn’s defense of the Trump proposition is this. If one has determined Trump to be a liar and a rascal why would anything he say have any weight? That is the issue that I think creates the gap that NeverTrumpers can not cross. The fact that Hillary is also a liar does not serve to cancel things out. If both were murderers would that also cancel out? Trump and Hillary have in my mind and clearly in that of James’ and Rob’s crossed some ultimate line of trust. He has done this through his words and actions, and so no amount of argument for people we know and like can really reverse what we have seen with our own eyes. In many ways discussing this is pointless. Maybe the only way for Trump to prove himself is to actually govern well, but that will require him to win the presidency without the support of NeverTrumpers. Of course based on how things are going for him even if every NeverTrumper on Earth voted for him he might still lose in a landslide.
I think it might be true. I will say this, speaking only for myself. I deeply care about foreign policy and specifically our stance on Russia. Trumps remarks with respect to Putin and his seeming lack of appreciation for NATO and its role in preserving peace and liberty since the end of WWII is probably the thing that most worries me about him. In my view a supreme court judge is not worth the potential destruction of NATO and the enslavement of the Baltic states by Russia. Hillary (like any democrat) does not fill me with confidence, but at least she has not created the rhetorical impression that Russia has some right to invade Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Two improvements this week in regards to James:
Then he disappeared unfortunately.
Thank you for your clarification on this matter. I have a better understanding of your position at least.
For myself the Supreme Court is paramount as I think the judiciary and the left ie The Democrat party is ruining this country, and don’t think the economy or culture can take another Democrat administration. That is the position that I am coming from.
It should be noted I think that worry about Russia is no trivial matter. Letting them get away with continued aggression against European nations will only encourage further such acts. Every time we have let such actions go in the past we have invariably been forced to come in eventually and ask ourselves why we had not acted sooner. Well acting sooner means acting now. In every case of facing down totalitarian aggression there is always a camp of so called “realists” that either do not care about the victims, think they can manipulate the totalitarian, or are just sympathetic to the totalitarian. Trump is surrounding himself with these people. When complaints are brought up against Trump’s ignorance of affairs I am told to not worry because he will have advisers. But, too many of his advisers seem to have a pro Putin bent to them, and so I am worried that they will advise appeasement. They may be good on ISIS, they may be good on China, but if they are bad on Russia they are just bad. Russia is our biggest strategic threat, followed by China, with ISIS in a distant third. Well really fourth because I think Iran is more threatening also.
This is what I have generally noticed about the Trump divide. If the Court is paramount than Trump really offers the only hope of any kind of good outcome no matter how small. So I get the bet. For those who it does not represent that, the risk is differently weighed.
I was not impressed in the least by Mr Arnn’s arguments supporting Trump and was quite discouraged that the president of a supposedly fine conservative institution such as Hillsdale could have such a deluded individual as president. This guy could do a road show with Jerry Falwell Jr to try to convince people that God-fearing (wink, wink) Christians should support the anti-religious con man.
The students of Liberty University and Hillsdale have been sold out by their leaders.
No matter what Trump says, he’s a liar. UNLESS…unless he says something bad and misappropriate. Then that’s the real Donald Trump and I despise him. He’s a war monger who can’t be trusted with the Nuclear button. Except he’s not antagonistic enough with the only country from which there is a serious threat of nuclear armageddon, Russia. He’s a moral catastrophe, with all his wives and girlfriends. Yet we strangely hear no interviews and read no books exposing first hand accounts of his poor behavior. All five children are bright and capable and always supportive. Even Ronald Reagan had his black sheep children. The only other possible victor in this Presidential contest looks right into the eyes of Chris Wallace and lies about a very clearly stated interview between FBI head Comey and Congress, a very public interview in which Clinton was discovered having made grossly inaccurate statements about her emails time and time again. But Trump is excoriated by the press for indelicate handling of an obvious political operative who happens to be a Gold Star parent. So many people have felt betrayed by the political class in this country that we thrived for an outsider not of them. When that outsider makes impolitic statements we shun him as though he carries a plague.
I am curious: Arnn and Farwell have three choices:
You described Arnn and Farwell as “leaders”; so I am assuming 3 and 4 are not options as leaders typically take a stand.
So we are left with options 1 and 2.
Since you claim Arnn and Farwell have sold out their students by openly supporting Trump, can I assume you wouldn’t be saying the same thing if they openly supported Clinton?
I was surprised that Rob’s tone, when he started talking to Arnn, was so contemptuous. He normally does not talk like that. It got better after Arnn gave him a politely delivered but stern rebuke.
Aka, “silly goose.”
I didn’t have enough room to tell the story of the Jewish lady who goes to the Kosher deli to buy a chicken for Sabbath. The butcher presents the lady with a beautiful chicken upon which the lady begins her inspection. She spreads the chickens legs, looks under its wings, checks it s belly and rejects it, asking the butcher for a different chicken. After about five attempts to present this lady with an acceptable chicken, the butcher finally raises his hands in exasperation and asks, “Lady could you pass the same inspection?” The lady walked out in a huff.
Equating not supporting Trump with supporting Hillary is a logical fallacy that has been beat to death here on ricochet and elsewhere. Sorry, but that dog doesn’t hunt.
So there’s a #5 I missed. Please enlighten.