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This week on the podcast, James and Peter talk Egyptian politics and culture with Hoover’s Fouad Ajami (read his WSJ Op-Ed piece here) and later, the Zimmerman trial and immigration reform with the WSJLive’s (and Ricochet’s newest contributor) Mary Kissel. What does the Zimmerman trial say about the current state of race relations? And what of the immigration bill currently before the House — do you share the views expressed on the show? Let us know in the comments.

Happy Fourth, everyone!

Music from this week’s show:

This Land Is Your Land by Woody Guthrie

The Ricochet Podcast opening theme was composed and produced by James Lileks.

EJHill is a true American.

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There are 110 comments.

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  1. Profile Photo Inactive
    @NickStuart

    James, of course the WSJ is in favor of completely open borders.

    Mary Kissel gave us the view we could expect from the Wall Street Journal:  “We want a continuing influx of cheap labor, whether nannies and laborers, or B1B visa brainiacs.”

    One would think that the folks at the WSJ would understand supply and demand, where if the supply of labor is plentiful, the cost of labor goes down.

    We do have Americans who would do unskilled labor, they’re called teenagers. We have Americans who would do the skilled brain work, they’re called “college graduates.” 

    Mary is no doubt an allrightnik. It won’t matter to her what dislocations blue and white collar workers in flyover country suffer. 

    All it would take to get enough conservatives on board to pass whatever immigration reform the RINOs and Lefties want is to actually build the fence. If they’re that certain it won’t work, they can shut us up by building it.

    • #31
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    @JosephStanko
    Blue Yeti: 

    P.S. For what it’s worth, the version that I used here is the original and does not include the stanza about the relief office. That was added and recorded later.  · 1 minute ago

    According to wikipedia they were in the original version.

    • #32
  3. Profile Photo Member
    @

    EJHill — Kate Smith? She honestly never crossed my mind.

    As for Ray Charles — one of the greats. But he didn’t write his own material. Do you really think his politics were much different than Woody Guthrie’s? I don’t.  

    EJHill: There are choices? Or maybe… · 7 hours ago

    Edited 7 hours ago

    • #33
  4. Profile Photo Coolidge
    @JosephStanko
    Matede: What are these jobs that Americans just won’t do? Let me see, Paper Routes, I know the illegals in my town deliver the paper. Well I’m an American and I had a paper route, was a dish washer at a restaurant too, worked for a landscaper one summer, bused tables and bar backed. All of those pesky jobs that apparently Americans just don’t do anymore, but back in MY day (I’m 34) American teenagers did those jobs. · 27 minutes ago

    The real problem is that if you hire an American to do those jobs, you must pay minimum wage, payroll taxes, and under Obamacare you might even need to provide medical benefits.

    Whereas if you hire an illegal alien, you can pay whatever the job is actually worth since the whole thing is under the table.  Thus, many business prefer to hire illegals, for entirely rational economic reasons.

    P.S. We shouldn’t be talking about “jobs Americans won’t do,” we should call them “jobs the government won’t let Americans do.”

    • #34
  5. Profile Photo Coolidge
    @JosephStanko
    Blue Yeti: EJHill — Kate Smith? She honestly never crossed my mind.

    As for Ray Charles — one of the greats. But he didn’t write his own material. Do you really think his politics were much different than Woody Guthrie’s? I don’t.  

    EJHill: There are choices? Or maybe… · 7 hours ago

    Edited 7 hours ago

    3 minutes ago

    Why are you the Blue Yeti, anyway?  Shouldn’t you be the Red (State) Yeti?  Who are you really working for???

    • #35
  6. Profile Photo Inactive
    @NickStuart

    Going from memory here, bear with me on the numbers. In 1984 Reagan got 37% of the Hispanic vote. In 1988, after amnesty in 1986, George HW Bush got 30%. Passing comprehensive immigration reward, handing out the candy, garnered the GOP a net drop of 7% of the Hispanic vote.

    Whatever the most optimistic estimate of Hispanic votes the GOP could possibly gain from passing the Senate bill, or end up with in a conference bill that will be essentially the same result, it would pale in comparison with the votes they will lose off the conservative base either by staying home or bolting to a third party.

    The GOP Beltway Barnacles, and Wall Street Journal editorialists, clearly do not grasp they are facing a mutiny of the base already due to the House GOP’s lack of urgency about getting results (firings and prosecutions are results, not more hearings) on the Obama scandals (particularly IRS and Benghazi). Passing amnesty with the promise of enforcement sometime after the heat death of the universe provided the DHS Secretary deems it necessary, will be the spark that sets the mutiny off.

    • #36
  7. Profile Photo Inactive
    @billy
    Joseph Stanko

    billy

    So if you increase the supply of labor, that won’t decrease the cost of labor? (i.e. wages)

    That depends.  If economics is a zero-sum game, and more workers compete for a fixed number of jobs, then yes wages will go down.

    If the economy is elastic, then more paid workers will create more demand for food, housing, medical care, and so forth, which will create more jobs.  Supply of labor will increase, but so will demand for labor. · 9 minutes ago

    Are you seriously arguing that expanding America’s pool of unskilled labor will increase job opportunities?

    Moreover, that this increase will outpace the rate of immigration which is estimated to be in the millions?

    • #37
  8. Profile Photo Coolidge
    @JosephStanko
    billy

    Are you seriously arguing that expanding America’s pool of unskilled labor will increase job opportunities?

    Moreover, that this increase will outpace the rate of immigration which is estimated to be in the millions? · 0 minutes ago

    I’m seriously arguing it would do so if it weren’t crippled by taxes, overregulation, and mandatory benefits.

    • #38
  9. Profile Photo Inactive
    @MikeH
    Basil Fawlty

    Isn’t personal property also just a convenient fiction – a projection of power beyond our corporeal self?  It seems odd to me that people have no right to alleviate their poverty by taking (a corporation’s) private property but apparently have the right to alleviate their poverty by taking what is collectively owned by others. · 12 minutes ago

    If you want to pool the resources with your neighbors to keep curtain people out, you have that right because it’s an agreement between personal property owners. Once you say, oh we also kind of own anything between these lines even though no one really owns it or we had a vote to to limit the rights of a minority of property owners.

    You have no right to tell others who they can and cannot peacefully interact with. You have the ability, but not the right. Migration is a fundamental human right. The right of self determination; the right to take your personally owned body where you wish as long as you are not violating the personal property rights of others.

    • #39
  10. Profile Photo Inactive
    @MateDe

    Joseph- yes I understand that our countries labor laws favor employers to hire illegals over citizens, my point is when pundits say that illegals are doing the jobs American WON’T do is insulting and a lie, they are jobs Americans aren’t getting hired to do because of our minimum wage and labor laws.

    • #40
  11. Profile Photo Inactive
    @MateDe

    Sorry Joseph, just saw your edited comment. We’re on the same page on this one

    • #41
  12. Profile Photo Member
    @BasilFawlty
    Mike H

    If you want to pool the resources with your neighbors to keep curtain people out, you have that right because it’s an agreement between personal property owners. Once you say, oh we also kind of own anything between these lines even though no one really owns it or we had a vote to to limit the rights of a minority of property owners.

    You have no right to tell others who they can and cannot peacefully interact with. You have the ability, but not the right. Migration is a fundamental human right. The right of self determination; the right to take your personally owned body where you wish as long as you are not violating the personal property rights of others. · 4 minutes ago

    Sounds a bit like the Occupy movement.  I fear the public parks are going to become crowded and gross.

    • #42
  13. Profile Photo Inactive
    @billy
    Joseph Stanko

    billy

    Are you seriously arguing that expanding America’s pool of unskilled labor will increase job opportunities?

    Moreover, that this increase will outpace the rate of immigration which is estimated to be in the millions? · 0 minutes ago

    I’m seriously arguing it woulddo so if it weren’t crippled by taxes, overregulation, and mandatory benefits. · 4 minutes ago

    So can we cut taxes, deregulate, and dismantle the entitlement state before we invite millions of immigrants to come live here?

    • #43
  14. Profile Photo Inactive
    @MikeH
    billy

    Joseph Stanko

    billy

    Are you seriously arguing that expanding America’s pool of unskilled labor will increase job opportunities?

    Moreover, that this increase will outpace the rate of immigration which is estimated to be in the millions? · 0 minutes ago

    I’m seriously arguing it woulddo so if it weren’t crippled by taxes, overregulation, and mandatory benefits. · 4 minutes ago

    So can we cut taxes, deregulate, and dismantle the entitlement state beforewe invite millions of immigrants to come live here? · 0 minutes ago

    Ask that to a Haitian.

    • #44
  15. Profile Photo Member
    @Franco

    Mike H,

    You are making ridiculous arguments. We live in a democracy and we have the rule of law. You would like to change the law because you percieve some unfairness, that is your right. However, foreign nationals do not have a right to “migrate” and squat and then claim they are being oppressed when the laws of the land they entered hold them to account. Those of us who disagree with you have a perfect right to do so, and your attitude reveals a certain lack of respect for democracy itself. 

    I would like to see you migrate to Mexico or Russia and make your case of open borders to them. You will end up in jail and they will deport you. If it was up to me, I wouldn’t take you back until you completed a basic civics course. 

    • #45
  16. Profile Photo Coolidge
    @JosephStanko
    Matede: Joseph- yes I understand that our countries labor laws favor employers to hire illegals over citizens, my point is when pundits say that illegals are doing the jobs American WON’T do is insulting and a lie, they are jobs Americans aren’t getting hired to do because of our minimum wage and labor laws. · 38 minutes ago

    All that, plus some Americans prefer to live off welfare, unemployment, and food stamps than work for minimum wage.

    • #46
  17. Profile Photo Coolidge
    @JosephStanko
    billy

    Joseph Stanko

    billy

    Are you seriously arguing that expanding America’s pool of unskilled labor will increase job opportunities?

    Moreover, that this increase will outpace the rate of immigration which is estimated to be in the millions? · 0 minutes ago

    I’m seriously arguing it woulddo so if it weren’t crippled by taxes, overregulation, and mandatory benefits. · 4 minutes ago

    So can we cut taxes, deregulate, and dismantle the entitlement state beforewe invite millions of immigrants to come live here? · 58 minutes ago

    That would be the sensible way to do things.

    Politicians like to talk about “comprehensive” immigration reform.  If the House Republicans had any guts, they’d pass a bill that included the amnesty the left wants, plus repeals the minimum wage and eliminates federal welfare benefits.  How’s that for comprehensive?

    • #47
  18. Profile Photo Inactive
    @MikeH
    Franco: Mike H,

    I would like to see you migrate to Mexico or Russia and make your case of open borders to them.

    I know I’m not going to be making any friends by taking an radical and unpopular view, but here it goes.

    Saying other countries are worse doesn’t make us right. We should hold ourselves to a much higher standard than “better than horrible countries.” I do have a curtain disrespect for democracy, or rather I believe most people give it undue respect. I no longer accept, “this is the way things are so we must argue within the preconceived boundaries.” We do live in a democracy, and yet we allow our rights to be violated constantly. Saying, “oh shucks, people voted for it.” is not an excuse for violation of human rights.

    • #48
  19. Profile Photo Inactive
    @MikeH
    Franco:

     However, foreign nationals do not have a right to “migrate” and squat and then claim they are being oppressed when the laws of the land they entered hold them to account. 

    I didn’t say they had this right. What I’m basically saying is one should not be able to tell another who they may hire. There should be a very good reason to limit the rights of others and “people voted on it” is far from sufficient. We should treat foreigners like strangers but currently we are treating them far worse.

    • #49
  20. Profile Photo Inactive
    @JanMichaelRives

    Franco,That’s why Mexico and Russia are crappy countries. They have no tradition of natural rights. They have bad, restrictive laws.

    • #50
  21. Profile Photo Inactive
    @JanMichaelRives

    Also, I like James as much as everyone else (even bought his latest book!) but his depiction as the Statue of Liberty is at odds with his stated position on immigration. After all, this is the statue on which is inscribed, “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

    • #51
  22. Profile Photo Inactive
    @KimK

    Too bad the second guest was less than optimum – she took everyone’s attention away from the first guest who was excellent.  It’s always great to get the views from somebody with intimate knowledge about “over there.” (Judith, Claire, etc.)

    The song at the end was jarring. Last year I escorted an elementary (Christian) school group to a folk trio concert.  An arts group in our town brings groups in and the groups usually give a daytime mini-concert for school children.  The folk group (from Vermont, natch) ended with an almost teary enconium to Woody Guthrie before singing “This Land is Your Land”, inviting everyone to join in.  

    Yep, my head about popped off!

    • #52
  23. Profile Photo Member
    @

    Meh, I should have gone with my first instinct and played The Bangles’ Walk Like An Egyptian

     

    • #53
  24. Profile Photo Member
    @BasilFawlty
    Not JMR: Also, I like James as much as everyone else (even bought his latest book!) but his depiction as the Statue of Liberty is at odds with his stated position on immigration. After all, this is the statue on which is inscribed, “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door.” · 25 minutes ago

    Wasn’t Ellis Island nearby?

    • #54
  25. Profile Photo Inactive
    @JanMichaelRives

    Blue Yeti: Does the closing song pop into your head as the podcast is recording?And it goes without saying, but I thought the last guest was great.

    • #55
  26. Profile Photo Member
    @kylez
    Mike H

    Give Me Liberty: Thank you James and Peter for defending those of us who once worked at “the jobs Americans won’t do”  but no longer  because brave immigrants drove the wages of those jobs through the floor.  Yes Mary, these immigrants are not taking the jobs of bond traders and newspaper editors but they might be found in construction, manufacturing, agriculture… · 23 minutes ago

    Is it right keep away your competition by gunpoint? Why don’t you try to coerce your current competitors by force of arms?

    Immigrants didn’t “drive your wages down.” They tried to improve their own lives the best they could. They are as much human as you are. · 3 hours ago

    While being humans, and trying to better their lives, immigrants drove wages down by working for less than Americans will (or are even allowed to). 

    • #56
  27. Profile Photo Member
    @kylez

    Mike H: 

     Do you actually believe that enforcing the law at the border, or (God forbid) deporting foreign lawbreakers is morally equivalent to an American citizen who works at McDonald’s pointing a gun at one who works at Burger King????

    • #57
  28. Profile Photo Member
    @

    I am not seeing that error message here on multiple devices. Try downloading it again.

    La Tapada: I tried to download the podcast and received a message that “ricochet-podcast-episode-174.mp3 contained a virus and was deleted.” Is this my computer’s problem or a problem with the podcast file itself? · 11 minutes ago

    • #58
  29. Profile Photo Member
    @

    I just like the song. I have never picked music based on the political affiliations or stances of the musician (assuming I even know what they are). That would really limit the choices. 

    EJHill:This Land is Your Land?

    Oh, Lord, Yeti has been Obamanized! The American communist Woody Guthrie’s “answer” to Irving Berlin’sGod Bless America…

    Should have stayed asleep like Mr. Long.

    And if Peter and James lived in Venice with Rob, I imagined them running over to the Long Plantation to try to rouse him for his podcasting duties: · 16 minutes ago

    Edited 16 minutes ago

    • #59
  30. Profile Photo Podcaster
    @EJHill

    There are choices? Or maybe…

    • #60
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