Flipping The Bird

This week, a super-sized episode featuring scooters, Nebraska’s own Ben Sasse on trade, tariffs, Trump, and Kavanaugh, self-driving cars, Twitter mob, and more. We could say more, but really, you should just listen to the show.

Music from this week’s podcast: Summertime by The Busters

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There are 46 comments.

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  1. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Autonomous vehicles don’t require a central repository/authority. In fact that’s kind of the antithesis of what “autonomous” means – self-driving cars as they currently exist are self-contained and get their instruction from inside the vehicle.

    Of course there must be a central database, if only for the navigation.

    So how do self-driving cars (to the extent they exist) manage now without that central database?

    Navigation doesn’t require a central database – it requires an accurate GPS and Map.

    I’m not as certain as you are that Today’s Autonomous Vehicles don’t use a central database. If they use a route-generation program such as the WAZE traffic app to navigate, then their location and destination is stored in a central database, where their route (as well as alternative routes) is generated.

    (WAZE crowd-sources real time traffic information, and generates routes based on that real time traffic data. Users of WAZE often get updates mid-trip announcing a change in the route due to changing traffic conditions.)

    If AVs don’t use such route-generation software, they’ll get stuck in traffic jams more often than they ought to. But maybe that’s cause to be optimistic: once human drivers are eliminated, the accident rate will drop so dramatically that perhaps future AVs might indeed need only GPS and a self-contained map.

    WAZE-type traffic optimization might be a convenience, but is not a necessity for autonomous vehicles to function.  An autonomous vehicle needs the ability to to safely operate in traffic – “efficient” routing is not an attribute of that requirement.

     

    • #31
  2. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    License plate scanners don’t tell anyone who is driving or otherwise traveling in the licensed vehicle. That leads to another rant for another post, regarding the blatant unconstitutionality, the tyranny of ticket-issuing cameras that issue the ticket based entirely on the license plate info. That is not evidence of who is operating the vehicle.

    Neither would any other centralized traffic flow monitor tell you who’s in the vehicle.

    A network for dispatching AVs would need to know who is requesting – and who is paying for – the ride. 

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    WAZE-type traffic optimization might be a convenience, but is not a necessity for autonomous vehicles to function. An autonomous vehicle needs the ability to to safely operate in traffic – “efficient” routing is not an attribute of that requirement.

    In a market-based Autonomous Vehicle system, the operator of a network that does not use WAZE-type traffic optimization will lose to its competitors who use such technology. 

    Netflix’s mail-based model for distribution of DVDs was just a convenience, not a necessity for a DVD rental operation to function. Just ask BLOCKBUSTER.

    A government-operated/regulated AV system might subsidize the luddite operator, however.

    • #32
  3. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Chris (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    And, sorry James, but Jasperwood is not really “urban.” It might seem like it compared to NYC or much of Los Angeles etc, but not really. …

    Hah! Depends on your definition of urban. It’s certainly not as dense as Manhattan – what is, except for Chicago? My neighborhood is a bit unusual; it was laid out as a suburb in the early part of the 20th century, breaking the grid pattern of the rest of the city, but if you’re saying that an area that’s 95% single-family housing can’t be “urban,” then very little of Minneapolis is urban.

    Doesn’t it come down in part in how you define “urban” versus “suburban”? The descriptions I’ve seen of Jasperwood always make it sound much more like it’s in a suburb than an urb.

     

    Agreed. I’m reminded how in the 90’s the average height of buildings in Tokyo was 3 stories high. City or not? Eye of the beholder I suppose.

    Words like “average” can have a variety of meanings.  I recommend a book I first read in High School – and it was already “old” then, but it’s been reprinted since – called “How To Lie With Statistics.”

    Also, the “average” of 3-story buildings doesn’t tell you anything about how large they were otherwise – floor space, etc – or how close together they were, their purpose, etc.

    • #33
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    License plate scanners don’t tell anyone who is driving or otherwise traveling in the licensed vehicle. That leads to another rant for another post, regarding the blatant unconstitutionality, the tyranny of ticket-issuing cameras that issue the ticket based entirely on the license plate info. That is not evidence of who is operating the vehicle.

    Neither would any other centralized traffic flow monitor tell you who’s in the vehicle.

    A network for dispatching AVs would need to know who is requesting – and who is paying for – the ride.

     

    That’s what I was going to say too, you beat me to it.  Which could easily give rise to the same kind of “send the fine to whoever requested/paid.”  And that could lead to the same kinds of laws that say the driver of the getaway car is also guilty of “felony murder” even if they never went into the bank or liquor store and never fired a shot.  For teenagers who are too young to have their own credit card etc and their parents must summon and pay for the “taxi,” they – the parents – could end up being held responsible for whatever the kids do, although that might actually be a plus compared to now when parents evade responsibility for the mayhem caused by their badly-socialized offspring.

    • #34
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    And, sorry James, but Jasperwood is not really “urban.” It might seem like it compared to NYC or much of Los Angeles etc, but not really. For example, people in true urban settings tend not to have gazebos etc, unless perhaps if they are very, very rich.

    Hah! Depends on your definition of urban. It’s certainly not as dense as Manhattan – what is, except for Chicago? My neighborhood is a bit unusual; it was laid out as a suburb in the early part of the 20th century, breaking the grid pattern of the rest of the city, but if you’re saying that an area that’s 95% single-family housing can’t be “urban,” then very little of Minneapolis is urban.

    Suburbs/bedroom communities often get surrounded by the larger city that they were previously outside of.  Maybe that’s part of what’s happening in your area.  But until it actually gets absorbed – you are not of the body! – and the other single-family homes around you are bought up and turned into more high-rises etc, you’re still basically in a suburb.

    • #35
  6. James Hageman Coolidge
    James Hageman
    @JamesHageman

    If someone could help me–what is the study to which Ben Sasse refers? He calls it a “MacKenzie (sp?) longitudinal study.” Thanks!

    • #36
  7. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    James Hageman (View Comment):

    If someone could help me–what is the study to which Ben Sasse refers? He calls it a “MacKenzie (sp?) longitudinal study.” Thanks!

    Not exactly sure, but I assumed it was a study done by McKinsey & Company.

    • #37
  8. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Doesn’t it come down in part in how you define “urban” versus “suburban”? The descriptions I’ve seen of Jasperwood always make it sound much more like it’s in a suburb than an urb.

    I define “suburban” as a matter of borders – there’s the city, then there’s the city limits, and then there are post-war developments on the other side of the border. It’s also a question of aesthetics, the age of the housing and commercial stock, the type of commercial stock – two-story brick building from the early 20th century that grew up around the streetcar lines, not car-centric strip malls with parking lots facing the street. 

    My lot is unusually big, due to the peculiarities of the area; the land descends down to a creek, resulting in a hill that couldn’t be used for a dwelling. The original owner bought the small tract next door for his backyard. Most of the houses around here have small back yards, although there are two houses to the east that are absolutely enormous with White-House sized lawns. It’s an unusual neighborhood, but definitely urban.

    • #38
  9. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Suburbs/bedroom communities often get surrounded by the larger city that they were previously outside of. Maybe that’s part of what’s happening in your area. But until it actually gets absorbed – you are not of the body! – and the other single-family homes around you are bought up and turned into more high-rises etc, you’re still basically in a suburb.

    Then I repeat: 95% of Minneapolis is a suburb. Is this a suburb?

    • #39
  10. Chris Member
    Chris
    @Chris

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Chris (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    And, sorry James, but Jasperwood is not really “urban.” It might seem like it compared to NYC or much of Los Angeles etc, but not really. …

    Hah! Depends on your definition of urban. It’s certainly not as dense as Manhattan – what is, except for Chicago? My neighborhood is a bit unusual; it was laid out as a suburb in the early part of the 20th century, breaking the grid pattern of the rest of the city, but if you’re saying that an area that’s 95% single-family housing can’t be “urban,” then very little of Minneapolis is urban.

    Doesn’t it come down in part in how you define “urban” versus “suburban”? The descriptions I’ve seen of Jasperwood always make it sound much more like it’s in a suburb than an urb.

    Agreed. I’m reminded how in the 90’s the average height of buildings in Tokyo was 3 stories high. City or not? Eye of the beholder I suppose.

    Words like “average” can have a variety of meanings. I recommend a book I first read in High School – and it was already “old” then, but it’s been reprinted since – called “How To Lie With Statistics.”

    Also, the “average” of 3-story buildings doesn’t tell you anything about how large they were otherwise – floor space, etc – or how close together they were, their purpose, etc.

    I’m a big believer in the old saw about “lies, damn lies, and statistics” but in this case the average height of buildings in stories was exactly what one would expect: the sum of the stories divided by the number of buildings.  

    Most people tend to think of Tokyo as a tall city if for no other reason than Godzilla movies and post cards.  But for the vast majority of its citizens, the city is mainly low with some very tall parts.  Or at least it was then.

    • #40
  11. J Ro Member
    J Ro
    @JRo

    Chris (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Chris (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Agreed. I’m reminded how in the 90’s the average height of buildings in Tokyo was 3 stories high. City or not? Eye of the beholder I suppose.

    Words like “average” can have a variety of meanings. I recommend a book I first read in High School – and it was already “old” then, but it’s been reprinted since – called “How To Lie With Statistics.”

    Also, the “average” of 3-story buildings doesn’t tell you anything about how large they were otherwise – floor space, etc – or how close together they were, their purpose, etc.

    I’m a big believer in the old saw about “lies, damn lies, and statistics” but in this case the average height of buildings in stories was exactly what one would expect: the sum of the stories divided by the number of buildings.

    Most people tend to think of Tokyo as a tall city if for no other reason than Godzilla movies and post cards. But for the vast majority of its citizens, the city is mainly low with some very tall parts. Or at least it was then.

    When you notice something unusual about a topic like this it can usually be traced to some government regulations. As for Tokyo, buildings made of wood, which used to be almost everything but train stations and banks built after opening to the West, and still includes most traditional houses, were limited to three stories. The limit was raised a few years ago to four (or five, I forget) stories. Even now there are many family businesses which are contained on the street front of the first floor of the owner’s house. Other buildings, e.g. schools, are required to have an elevator if they are four or more stories, so many of them are only three stories. There are likely many regs for emergency evacuation of such places which play out in their design limitations. Many kindergartens in Japan have prominent sliding boards from their upper decks to the playground. Whee!

    Almost every owner of real estate is conscious of the often onerous government regs which limit his use of his own property. It’s for our own good!

     

    • #41
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Maybe there’s some confusion or cross-contamination (?) of “suburban” versus “rural.”  One part of the difference there could be the concentration of residential structures – perhaps especially single-family type – versus commercial, farming, etc.  North Dakota might be still largely rural, not even suburban.  But that doesn’t mean that a lot of Minnesota, especially where James lives, isn’t suburban.  There should be at least 3 categories, maybe more if you allow for something like semi-rural or whatever.

    • #42
  13. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I always figured they were just waiting for self-driving cars (which were already on the horizon when they started up) so they could be completely centralized and not have ANY drivers – “employees” – that they had to share the money with.

    But Uber would have to invest a lot of capital to buy all those self-driving cars.  Under the current system, they only get a part of the fee but their costs are pretty low, too, since they aren’t buying vehicles and paying for fuel and maintenance.

    • #43
  14. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    TallCon (View Comment):
    TallCon

    OK, my rule is usually to finish a podcast before I comment. But I can’t.

    I agree with Rob on the principle of STOP THE MADNESS. Sure.

    But the New York Times isn’t doing that. They’re not saying “Hey, we’re not going to punish a person for tweets from that person’s past.” What they’re saying is “We can hire her because she hasn’t done anything wrong.”

    A good point. I’m fine with the NYT hiring her as long as they make some statement like, “We find some of Ms. Jeong’s tweets racially insensitive and hurtful and we have expressed our displeasure with her. Regardless, blah… blah… blah.” Just a little disapproval is all I’m asking for.

    Heck, I’d be fine with them saying we don’t care what someone has Tweeted in the past, as long as they turn in good articles in the present that’s all we care about.  But they would have to apply this standard to everyone, regardless of race, sex, creed, whatever. 

    • #44
  15. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Rightfromthestart (View Comment):
    Yay, James excellent Braveheart like rant! Freeedommm!

    Indeed.  If Blue Yeti ever puts together a Best of Lileks show, this rant needs to be in there.

    • #45
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I always figured they were just waiting for self-driving cars (which were already on the horizon when they started up) so they could be completely centralized and not have ANY drivers – “employees” – that they had to share the money with.

    But Uber would have to invest a lot of capital to buy all those self-driving cars. Under the current system, they only get a part of the fee but their costs are pretty low, too, since they aren’t buying vehicles and paying for fuel and maintenance.

    I think they would be able to get investment for that easily enough. 

    Overall it’s short-sighted the same way the whole self-driving-car thing is.  Who figures out who cut the seats, or scratched the windows, etc?

    But I don’t think that will stop them.  After a while it will result in higher rates, maybe higher surveillance – multiple cameras in each car, etc – and restricted access that may end up “forcing” it to become some kind of government-supported “public utility” where you’ll have large fleets of cars that will be as unpleasant and unsafe as large amounts of public housing, and maybe there will be private subscription services that offer cleaner cars…  And the left will protest against them as “unfair”…

    • #46
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