Incitement to Violence?

 

I want to respond to something that I’m encountering in various forums, this idea that the President incited the mob to violence.

I can find nothing in the President’s various comments that can plausibly be interpreted as a call to violence. Impassioned speech, unsubstantiated claims of fraud and victory, and an enthusiastic rallying of his supporters, I can find all of those things. But at no point does he call upon the people assembled to commit criminal acts.

(Rudy Giuliani is on shakier ground, I think. His choice of words was astoundingly poor; with all due respect to the man, I think he should have left the public eye years ago, and encourage him to do so now. I don’t know how his comments relate, in terms of timing and exposure, to the behavior of the small portion of the crowd that acted illegally, but I think he may well have exposed himself to serious and legitimate criticism. [Update: Or maybe not. I have to read more of what he said.])

But I can find nothing in the President’s words that any responsible adult would consider constitutes a call to violence.

This is important. The left would very much like to equate speech with violence, and to criminalize speech of which it doesn’t approve. This is a core thesis of Antifa, that violence in response to speech is justified when Antifa doesn’t approve of the speech. This is the “it’s okay to punch a Nazi” school of thought, and the justification for everything from Facebook and Twitter’s bald censorship of “wrong-think” to the shouting down of guest speakers at America’s premier universities. It’s wrong, it’s antithetical to essential American values, and it must be opposed.

Trump may well have been ham-handed, unwise, desperate, misguided, and simply wrong in his insistence that, absent fraud, he won the election in a landslide. All of that can be debated. But that does not constitute an incitement to violence, no matter how inelegant and undignified one considers his comments to be.

If someone can provide me examples of an actual incitement to violence by Trump, I’ll change my opinion. Otherwise, I encourage people to put respect for our freedom of expression ahead of their dislike for this President, and to stand for freedom as the higher good. Criticize him all you want, but don’t call for impeachment unless you want to make the argument that speech you find offensive constitutes a “high crime or misdemeanor.” Because the left would love to go there, and we shouldn’t be eager to give it our help.

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  1. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    Weeping (View Comment):

    DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone (View Comment):

    Jonah Goldberg has lost his mind. This . . . this is incitement:

    How is this incitement? Personally, I don’t find this to be anymore inciting than President Trump’s words were. He’s not calling for violence. He’s simply calling for an investigation. Calling for an investigation, in my opinion, is nowhere near incitement – even if I disagree with the need for the investigation.

    If I’m wrong correct me Drew but what I think he’s doing is making the point that if what Trump did was incitement, the the word had lost all meaning and what Jonah is saying is just worse and is therefore incitement also.  Sarcastically I believe.  

    • #91
  2. DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone Member
    DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Weeping (View Comment):

    DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone (View Comment):

    Jonah Goldberg has lost his mind. This . . . this is incitement:

    How is this incitement? Personally, I don’t find this to be anymore inciting than President Trump’s words were. He’s not calling for violence. He’s simply calling for an investigation. Calling for an investigation, in my opinion, is nowhere near incitement – even if I disagree with the need for the investigation.

    He knows it’s not true. But he knows that his followers will take this irresponsible crazy speculation and run with it. It will become The Narrative™ soon. Just wait.

    • #92
  3. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    GFHandle (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    clearly his language rises to the level of an Abuse of Power.

    Clearly? Clearly? Clear as the mud of an old grudge.

    How poetic. ;)

    And I happen to agree. If what Gary says were true, then Gary would be able to quote the President clearly abusing his authority. But I don’t think Gary can do that.

    Honestly, that he keeps saying it without backing it up can be thought of as incitement. By Gary’s standard.

    • #93
  4. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    GFHandle (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    clearly his language rises to the level of an Abuse of Power.

    Clearly? Clearly? Clear as the mud of an old grudge.

    How poetic. ;)

    And I happen to agree. If what Gary says were true, then Gary would be able to quote the President clearly abusing his authority. But I don’t think Gary can do that.

    Andrew McCarthy was Trump’s strongest defender during the first impeachment and Mueller Investigation. What does Andrew McCarthy say now?

    “I do think the president has committed an impeachable offense, making a reckless speech that incited a throng on the mall, which foreseeably included an insurrectionist mob. These rioters ended up overwhelming security forces and storming the Capitol. They shut down a solemn constitutional proceeding, endangering the lives of the vice president and the people’s representatives. They ripped through the facility, causing not only significant property damage but grave injuries.”

    “The president was utterly irresponsible in his demagoguery. He plainly intended for thousands of supporters to march on the Capitol to create political pressure on Vice President Pence and congressional Republicans — i.e., to induce them to take what would have been lawless procedural steps to invalidate electoral votes that states had cast for President-elect Biden. There is no evidence, though, much less proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that Trump intended to instigate the Battle of Capitol Hill. He did not want anyone to be physically injured, let alone killed.

    “Yet the issue in impeachment is not criminal liability. As we extensively covered a year ago, impeachment concerns what Hamilton described as political offenses that call into question fitness for high public office. On that standard, the president’s incitement is indefensible, both for the undermining of our constitutional system that it promoted and the carnage it caused — however unintentionally. As someone who contended that the Ukraine kerfuffle was partisan theater masqueraded as impeachable offenses, I must say that this incident, to the contrary, is undeniably impeachable.”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/impeachment-by-the-numbers/#slide-1

    Appeal to authority fallacy. Next!

    • #94
  5. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone (View Comment):

    Jonah Goldberg has lost his mind. Now pushing a conspiracy theory that the President knew about bombs. This . . . this is incitement:

    It kind of makes you wonder: How many people who are otherwise intelligent and urbane are in reality bat-s*** crazy?

    • #95
  6. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    DrewInEastHillQuarantineZone (View Comment):

    Jonah Goldberg has lost his mind. Now pushing a conspiracy theory that the President knew about bombs. This . . . this is incitement:

    Agree. Goldberg is a complete jackass. 

    • #96
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