Democratic Nursing Home Policy?

 

Having failed to bury news of his March 25 order prohibiting nursing homes from rejecting patients with COVID-19, Governor Cuomo tried blame-shifting. He was “following federal guidelines,” he claimed, citing a March 13 order from the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. The head of CMS rejects the claim.

“Under no circumstances should a hospital discharge a patient to a nursing home that’s not prepared to take care of those patients’ needs,” Verma said on Fox News Radio. “The federal guidelines are absolutely clear about this.”

We can read the fine print and decide for ourselves who is right here. Or we can think about this:

Though reports seem oddly cryptic on the point (typically saying “some states,” without saying which states), as far as I’ve been able to gather, every governor who had a policy of sending COVID-19-positive into nursing homes is a Democrat. We’re talking about at least NY, NJ, PA, MI, CA, MN.

I’ve been looking around, but have yet to find one Republican governor with a similar policy. (Correct me if I’m wrong, and I’ll gladly amend the post.)

What could account for this discrepancy? And why isn’t it in the news everywhere?

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  1. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    EODmom (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    EODmom (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    katievs (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I often found this sort of thinking in the schools I volunteered at…. “It’s the law. We have to do it this way.”

    Marci, you are too generous here, imo. If it were the law, wouldn’t we expect to find Republican governors doing the same thing? Aren’t Republicans known for being law-abiding?

    Contrast these Dem governors’ policies with Ron DeSantis in FL, who from the beginning set out to protect seniors in care facilities. Note the different in nursing-home-death-rates between FL and NY.

    I’ll have to look into the situation in Florida. I don’t know what DeSantis did differently from what Charlie Baker did. I am interested to know too.

    He acted tactically and immediately on receiving new information about the distribution of the virus. He acknowledged reality and acted accordingly.

    I think Baker did too. But I know you don’t like him and probably wouldn’t see it that way. That’s okay. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. :-)

    You’re asking what they did differently. Because they did act differently and there have been different outcomes.

    Here is the answer to the question about DeSantis:

    He also said the state “stepped in” to provide personal protection equipment to nursing homes. And he pointed to his early mandate not to allow hospitals to discharge COVID-positive patients back to nursing homes as a factor in containing outbreaks.

    “Taking that extra step to protect our seniors has been worth it in the state of Florida,” he said. “All you have to do is look at places that did not do what we did.”

    So you are right about this. DeSantis was absolutely correct, shrewd, and smart not to allow this. He did not allow the hospitals to discharge these patients back to the nursing homes from where they came.

    But in all fairness to Baker, Baker did not know at that point that he would not need those hospital beds for a surge of cases that seemed possible at that time.

    • #31
  2. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    MarciN (View Comment):
    The more people died, the more beds they had. Horrible but true.

    This isn’t quite true.  Nursing home deaths did nothing for hospital bed availability.

    • #32
  3. Danny Alexander Member
    Danny Alexander
    @DannyAlexander

    PJ Media and the NY Post have covered interesting follow-the-money angles on New York State, Andrew Cuomo, NYS Health Commissioner Howard Zucker, the hospital lobbying machine in NYS, etc.

    Per these angles, the Medicaid factor loomed large, for one thing.  The allegation emerges that elderly NYC virus patients are/were overwhelmingly on Medicaid with its lower reimbursement levels, and this led NYC hospitals to push for early releases; why these early-release cases couldn’t be treated at the Javits Center, or even on board the USNS Comfort, mystifies me.

     

    • #33
  4. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Danny Alexander (View Comment):
    . . . why these early-release cases couldn’t be treated at the Javits Center, or even on board the USNS Comfort, mystifies me.

    You realize wondering that assumes the governor or mayor had even a lick of sense. Assume they are total idiots and were in the grip of panic and the why becomes clear.

    • #34
  5. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    The more people died, the more beds they had. Horrible but true.

    This isn’t quite true. Nursing home deaths did nothing for hospital bed availability.

    Yes. But in terms of the active number of cases in each state, people who might require hospitalization or were in the hospital and likely to stay there, yes it would have been a factor four to six weeks ago.

    At any rate, in that comment, I was referring to hospital deaths.

    • #35
  6. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Danny Alexander (View Comment):

    PJ Media and the NY Post have covered interesting follow-the-money angles on New York State, Andrew Cuomo, NYS Health Commissioner Howard Zucker, the hospital lobbying machine in NYS, etc.

    Per these angles, the Medicaid factor loomed large, for one thing. The allegation emerges that elderly NYC virus patients are/were overwhelmingly on Medicaid with its lower reimbursement levels, and this led NYC hospitals to push for early releases; why these early-release cases couldn’t be treated at the Javits Center, or even on board the USNS Comfort, mystifies me.

    I’m still waiting for the facts to come out about why a mentally disturbed 20 year old with the virus was put into a nursing home in Michigan. Why he was even assigned to share a room with the elderly person he later videoed himself beating up.

    We need answers.

    • #36
  7. BastiatJunior Member
    BastiatJunior
    @BastiatJunior

    Nerina Bellinger (View Comment):
    … took the aggressive action of clearing out patients – even elderly ones infected with the virus – to free up beds.

    The news here is for whom they were clearing up the beds —  Younger people.

    • #37
  8. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    MarciN (View Comment):

    JoelB (View Comment):

    I think the Dems are so fixated on forced nondiscrimination that they missed the whole problem of contagion.

    That’s what I think happened too. For them, it’s a knee-jerk reaction. “You can’t deny admittance to that person.”

    I think the nursing home administrators are as much to blame here as anyone else. They are faithful bureaucrats rather than true executives.

    Each and every single one of them should simply have said, “No.”

    They are apparently big donors to Cuomo.

    • #38
  9. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    katievs (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I think the disaster planners need a new textbook to work from. This was a crisis simply because they never anticipated these circumstances, and for the life of me, I’m not sure why. That’s been bugging me since it started. I read a great book a few years ago called Five Days at Memorial which chronicles the events at a New Orleans hospital during the Hurricane Katrina disaster. It should be required reading for all town administrators across the country.

    New Orleans was also run by Democrats. Democrats across the nation back then were blatantly using the natural disaster to tarnish President Bush.

    I flew into New Orleans the day after Hurricane Ivan missed the city after looking like to would hit it squarely. The American College of Surgeons 2004 meeting was there and I did not know until the last minute if it would be cancelled.  The hurricane swung east and hit Pensacola and Mobile Bay.  When I arrived the day after the near miss there was zero sign of any precautions. No windows boarded up, etc.  I was not at all surprised the next year when Katrina was a disaster.

    • #39
  10. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    katievs (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

     

    I don’t know how I would have kept the virus out of a nursing home last winter. People were carrying the virus and having zero symptoms. All it would take is a nurse’s aid with the virus to infect the patients who were extremely vulnerable.

    Again, check out Ron DeSantis’ policies. From the beginning, he left FL generally far more open and free than other states, while he issued orders to protect and safeguard Nursing homes. It worked.

    …Have we just been lucky up to now? I don’t know.

    It’s not luck. If it were, we would expect to find the bad results roughly evenly distributed between Dem.-run and Rep.-run states. They’re not.

     

    Weather and population density are major factors.

    • #40
  11. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    MarciN (View Comment):
    but I do stop short of condemning the governors in the Democratic Northeast states for malice toward nursing home patients

    How about criminal negligence?

    • #41
  12. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Danny Alexander (View Comment):

    PJ Media and the NY Post have covered interesting follow-the-money angles on New York State, Andrew Cuomo, NYS Health Commissioner Howard Zucker, the hospital lobbying machine in NYS, etc.

    Per these angles, the Medicaid factor loomed large, for one thing. The allegation emerges that elderly NYC virus patients are/were overwhelmingly on Medicaid with its lower reimbursement levels, and this led NYC hospitals to push for early releases; why these early-release cases couldn’t be treated at the Javits Center, or even on board the USNS Comfort, mystifies me.

     

    Most nursing home patients are on Medicaid.  In fact, families often “spend down” assets so the parent will qualify. That is considered a form of fraud and is pursued.

    • #42
  13. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Weather and population density are major factors.

    I don’t doubt it. But governors can’t control those factors. It’s interesting to me that among the factors they could control is nursing home policy. And on that point of policy we find a striking difference between Republicans and Democrats. 

    There’s no question the step taken by at least several Dem governors led to increased deaths in nursing homes. It’s telling that no Republican governor took that step, isn’t it?

    I suspect more information will be coming out about this, notwithstanding the efforts of the MSM to downplay it.

    • #43
  14. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    katievs: What could account for this discrepancy? And why isn’t it in the news everywhere?

    Good questions.  I am not aware of a Republican governor doing it, but I don’t keep track of other states.  The NY Post has been holding Gov. Cuomo’s feet to the fire.  I don’t know if there is a Republican/Democrat philosophic angle to it, but people should certainly be digging into this more.  

    Of course we know if it were Republican governors who had done this, it would be all over the news.

    • #44
  15. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    MarciN (View Comment):
    So you are right about this. DeSantis was absolutely correct, shrewd, and smart not to allow this. He did not allow the hospitals to discharge these patients back to the nursing homes from where they came.

    The more I hear about DeSantis, the more I like.  For President in 2024?  Vice President?  A Pence/DeSantis ticket?

    • #45
  16. Nerina Bellinger Inactive
    Nerina Bellinger
    @NerinaBellinger

    katievs (View Comment):

    Nerina Bellinger (View Comment):

    I think those states were also the ones anticipating a high demand for acute-care bed space and so took the aggressive action of clearing out patients – even elderly ones infected with the virus – to free up beds. It was a stupendously stupid decision given the fact (perhaps the only fact that has remained true throughout this crisis) that old people die in large numbers from this disease.

    How to explain, then that there were so many empty beds in NY? The USS Comfort and the Javits Center, for instance, were hardly used.

    Oh, I agree, @katievs.  The administrators of the nursing homes themselves were begging for the Covid+ patients be cared for in the Javits Center and on the Comfort but King Cuomo refused.  Even if his thought was to clear bed space for the theoretical incoming wave of admissions, transferring infected elderly into vulnerable facilities and communities is unconscionable. 

    • #46
  17. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Manny (View Comment):

    katievs: What could account for this discrepancy? And why isn’t it in the news everywhere?

    Good questions. I am not aware of a Republican governor doing it, but I don’t keep track of other states…

    I’ve been looking around for a Republican example and asking facebook friends if anyone can name. So far nothing.

    Here in PA, our Health Director has been taking some heat. She quietly moved her own 95-year-old mother out of nursing home into a hotel before the new policy was implemented and deaths in those facilities spiked.

     

    • #47
  18. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Danny Alexander (View Comment):

    PJ Media and the NY Post have covered interesting follow-the-money angles on New York State, Andrew Cuomo, NYS Health Commissioner Howard Zucker, the hospital lobbying machine in NYS, etc.

    Per these angles, the Medicaid factor loomed large, for one thing. The allegation emerges that elderly NYC virus patients are/were overwhelmingly on Medicaid with its lower reimbursement levels, and this led NYC hospitals to push for early releases; why these early-release cases couldn’t be treated at the Javits Center, or even on board the USNS Comfort, mystifies me.

    You’re just not cynical enough Danny. What if moving elderly COVID patients to the Javits or the Comfort had saved lives and Donald Trump were credited? That would be bad. For Democrats. 

    • #48
  19. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    You’re just not cynical enough Danny. What if moving elderly COVID patients to the Javits or the Comfort had saved lives and Donald Trump were credited? That would be bad. For Democrats. 

    The Galts may be that cynical.  I’m not.

    • #49
  20. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    katievs (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    katievs: What could account for this discrepancy? And why isn’t it in the news everywhere?

    Good questions. I am not aware of a Republican governor doing it, but I don’t keep track of other states…

    I’ve been looking around for a Republican example and asking facebook friends if anyone can name. So far nothing.

    Here in PA, our Health Director has been taking some heat. She quietly moved her own 95-year-old mother out of nursing home into a hotel before the new policy was implemented and deaths in those facilities spiked.

     

    Oh wow. She moved her mother out. That a premeditated action. I was attributed it to ignorance and impulsive decision under pressure. But that opens this up to criminal implications. 

    • #50
  21. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Manny (View Comment):
    Oh wow. She moved her mother out. That a premeditated action. I was attributed it to ignorance and impulsive decision under pressure. But that opens this up to criminal implications. 

    I doubt it’s criminal.  But it sure is hypocritical.

    • #51
  22. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Manny (View Comment):

    katievs (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I’ve been looking around for a Republican example and asking facebook friends if anyone can name. So far nothing.

    Here in PA, our Health Director has been taking some heat. She quietly moved her own 95-year-old mother out of nursing home into a hotel before the new policy was implemented and deaths in those facilities spiked.

     

    Oh wow. She moved her mother out. That a premeditated action. I was attributed it to ignorance and impulsive decision under pressure. But that opens this up to criminal implications.

    She claims that her mother makes her own decisions. But it certainly looks bad. 

    • #52
  23. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Here’s an article about that PA case. It’s pathetically soft-pedaled. Just imagine if were a Republican!

     

    • #53
  24. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Okay, Baker did not go the Cuomo route. Our nursing homes in Massachusetts have not done well, but that isn’t our Republican governor’s fault. He did not order recovering covid-19 patients to be sent to nursing homes. He did consider it, but a day later abandoned the idea (article dated April 14):

    Massachusetts has abandoned a plan to use active nursing homes as a source of relief for hospitals overwhelmed by surges of COVID-19 patients.

    Pennsylvania Department of Health Secretary Rachel Levine said last week that she was discussing the idea of using entire long-term care facilities for people in recovery. At the time, Massachusetts was moving forward on a proposal to use nursing homes as a way to increase surge capacity and separate COVID-19 clusters in elder-care facilities. But the idea hit snags immediately, with dozens of patients who were about to be moved testing positive for the new coronavirus.

    The Massachusetts Executive Office of Health and Human Services said this week that it had scrapped plans to convert nursing homes for surge capacity, but now may use vacant nursing homes for that purpose. State health officials are also deploying mobile testing units and seeking to separate nursing home residents who have tested positive or negative within existing facilities.

    “The commonwealth is aggressively pursuing options to expand health-care capacity in the state in light of the COVID-19 public health emergency. One option we pursued was the use of skilled nursing facilities, but as additional testing revealed that COVID-19 had spread in these facilities, we reevaluated this approach and are now seeking to use vacant nursing homes.”

    Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker had announced on March 27 that his administration’s COVID-19 Response Command Center was working with long-term care facilities to establish dedicated skilled nursing facilities for COVID-19 patients “who are stable but still need medical care,” thus freeing up intensive care units and hospital space.

    The move was made with approval from the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. To expedite the initiative, the Department of Public Health in Massachusetts issued an order waiving certain MassHealth regulations regarding the transfers and discharge of residents, for “the limited purpose” of safely clearing a facility for COVID-19 patients.

     

    There will be an accounting in those states that pursued these policies. The book Five Days at Memorial is about the lawsuits and criminal charges levied against a few of the doctors working at Memorial Hospital during Hurricane Katrina.

    • #54
  25. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    It seems clear that both DeSantis and Baker are still working the problem of the nursing home infections. Baker has committed $130 million dollars to beefing up the infectious disease resources available to nursing homes. DeSantis is also still working on the problem. What has changed these past three weeks is that these two governors are confident they can concentrate resources in nursing homes because it has become very clear that that is where this virus is doing its worst. 

    We’re learning as we go, and things will get better. 

    • #55
  26. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    katievs (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    katievs: What could account for this discrepancy? And why isn’t it in the news everywhere?

    Good questions. I am not aware of a Republican governor doing it, but I don’t keep track of other states…

    I’ve been looking around for a Republican example and asking facebook friends if anyone can name. So far nothing.

    Here in PA, our Health Director has been taking some heat. She quietly moved her own 95-year-old mother out of nursing home into a hotel before the new policy was implemented and deaths in those facilities spiked.

     

    “She” happens to be the ugliest transgender I have ever seen.  Facebook threatened me for saying this in a mild fashion.

    • #56
  27. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    katievs (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    katievs: What could account for this discrepancy? And why isn’t it in the news everywhere?

    Good questions. I am not aware of a Republican governor doing it, but I don’t keep track of other states…

    I’ve been looking around for a Republican example and asking facebook friends if anyone can name. So far nothing.

    Here in PA, our Health Director has been taking some heat. She quietly moved her own 95-year-old mother out of nursing home into a hotel before the new policy was implemented and deaths in those facilities spiked.

     

    “She” happens to be the ugliest transgender I have ever seen. Facebook threatened me for saying this in a mild fashion.

    Oh dear. And “she” started her career in medicine as a pediatrician! And is a noted health expert on the connection between mental and physical health. You can tell by looking. /sarc off

    • #57
  28. Danny Alexander Member
    Danny Alexander
    @DannyAlexander

    Here’s an updated look at what’s been happening in MA:

    https://commonwealthmagazine.org/health/sudders-nursing-homes-still-work-in-progress/

     

    • #58
  29. Joe Boyle Member
    Joe Boyle
    @JoeBoyle

    @marcin I don’t know what he expects to find.

    I know what he expects to find. The Governor and his hard working, faithful minions are blameless in this horrible catastrophe. Now, nursing home administrators are a different story and must be held accountable. I expect the same sort of BS to play out in NY.

    • #59
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