Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
Is Porn Poison for the Brain?
Does porn actually damage the brain? Might sound far-fetched, but there is some very interesting research on this topic that might convince you that it does. This week, I plan to post each day on a different topic related to my new book, Sex & God at Yale. Chapter 2, entitled “The Great Porn Debate,” details a rip-roaring Oxford-style porn debate starring porn performer Ron Jeremy, which was held in New Haven during my junior year.
Just this morning, a current Yale student sent me this fascinating TEDx video, featuring a talk by physiologist Gary Wilson, host of www.yourbrainonporn.com. According to the video description, Wilson’s research “arose in response to a growing demand for solid scientific information by heavy Internet erotica users experiencing perplexing, unexpected effects: escalation to more extreme material, concentration difficulties, sexual performance problems, radical changes in sexual tastes, social anxiety, irritability, inability to stop, and obsessive-compulsive symptoms.”
The video lasts about 15 min, but you can catch the main drift by watching only the first 5. Do so and I promise you’ll learn something:
Fascinating stuff, huh? Especially considering how extreme and how universal porn has become among youth in the internet age. It has shaped an entire generation already.
So what do you think? Is porn harmless, or is it poison for the brain?
Published in General
Why in the last 20 years? Pornography has been around throughout recorded human history. In Pompeii they found pornographic paintings on the walls of bordellos, pornographic pictures have been around since the invention of the camera.
Sexuality is hardwired into us. There will always be some who take it to the extreme, take anything to the extreme. Just like there will always be those who want to criminalize the behavior of others who enjoy things they themselves don’t like.
Personally, I think it’s beyond unhealthy. I think it’s evil. Anything that aids you in turning human beings into objects is evil. But if men need purely secular reasons to quit, those exist as well.
I posted some links to summaries of social research above. They make other points, but the two you mention are front and center. The problem is that no one knows if it’s going to be “temporary’ when they begin–and once in, it’s very hard to get out.
A third aspect, that chronic pornography consumption is violation of the vow of fidelity, is critical. Many, perhaps most, wives who find out that their husbands have been viewing pornography regularly have almost precisely the same feelings as wives who find out their husbands have had an affair. In fact, many express it in precisely those terms.
If we don’t care about loving, long-term relationships between husbands and wives, the stability of families, or the collateral damage to children, then pornography is just harmless entertainment. If we do care about those things, we should recognize that it inverts the virtues that make a civilization strong.
It’s a huge issue that will only get worse.
From http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/02/gail-dines-pornography :
Tell me that’s not degrading and exploitative, even if the women do it for money.
Men need sex to feel connected to their wives. Women need communication to feel connected to their husbands.
Without sufficient sex, men seek from porn (or cheating) thephysicalgratification that they used to get from … the women they love, and perhaps curtail spousal communication in retaliation.
Without sufficient communication, women seek from (…) the emotional gratification they used to get from … men they love, and perhaps curtail spousal sex in retaliation.
Porn use doesn’t seem to have been proved to be a black-and-white blight on humanity.
I don’t get how you can’t see the obvious contradiction between your last sentence and what immediately precedes it.
Blame the 200-word limit for me not having more words to have concluded thusly: “Porn use by husbands doesn’t seem to have been proved to be always or even usually destructive in relationships, nor has the effort to acquit wives of any contributory role in relationship troubles seem to have been proved, either. Thus, the poisoning of the brain theory seems to be bunk.” Let’s not forget that a common cultural caricature is of a husband who doesn’t communicate – “can we talk at the commercial?”
Tell me that’s not degrading and exploitative, even if the women do it for money. ·4 minutes ago
I even find that degrading to men, frankly. We are not savages. Unless and until we chose to be.
Here’s an article from Glamour Magazine no less on the exploitation of women in the industry: http://www.glamour.com/sex-love-life/2006/12/stripper
Fake John Galt and Guruforhire, you laugh, but your laughter is very callous.
You could say the male actors are exploited in porn films too, but women suffer the most as they are made mere objects for the men’s lust, and often suffer rough and degrading treatment.
Why would any woman go into such an industry? Many are desperate for any kind of work and have come from sexually abusive homes. The porn industry literally profits off their brokenness and desperation.
(cont.)
That communication caricature always presents the husband as the cad or the oaf.
So, husbands are responsible for the lack of marital communications. And husbands are responsible for the lack of marital intimacy and sex.
Say, are there any marital problems for which wives might bear some responsibility? I even recall an earlier Rico thread asserting that it’s the mothers who do all the worrying and the fathers who do all the fun stuff. More abject bunk.
Men need sex to feel connected to their wives. Women need communication to feel connected to their husbands.
Without sufficient sex, men seek from porn (or cheating) thephysicalgratification that they used to get from … the women they love, and perhaps curtail spousal communication in retaliation.
Without sufficient communication, women seek from (…) the emotional gratification they used to get from … men they love, and perhaps curtail spousal sex in retaliation.
Porn use doesn’t seem to have been proved to be a black-and-white blight on humanity.
I don’t get how you can’t see the obvious contradiction between your last sentence and what immediately precedes it.
If men (and women) are seeking satisfaction for their needs outside of their relationship, that’s a bad thing, not a good thing.
Yes, and the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
I wasn’t defending “seeking satisfaction…outside of their relationship.” I was merely pointing out that both parties have responsibilites to each other, and that both parties can fall short, but that only one of the parties’ brains is accused of being poisoned and poisoning.
That communication caricature always presents the husband as the cad or the oaf.
So, husbands are responsible for the lack of marital communications. And husbands are responsible for the lack of marital intimacy and sex.
Say, are there any marital problems for which wivesmight bear some responsibility? I even recall an earlier Rico thread asserting that it’s the mothers who do all the worrying and the fathers who do all the fun stuff. More abject bunk. ·3 minutes ago
This is all straw man. No one is saying that wives don’t bear responsibility for lack of marital intimacy or communication. No one is endorsing the stereotype of an oafish husband. No one is suggesting that porn is at the root of all failed marriages. What we are saying is that when porn is present, people (users, wives, families, children) suffer for it.
-E
Your first sentence is talking about consequences in relationships, whereas the idea of “poisoning of the brain” is referring more to the destructive pattern of dopamine addiction itself that occurs in porn addicts’ minds.
The word “poison” is not one I would use. A better description is that like any addiction, it rewires your brain’s structure. The “poisoning of the brain theory” should be called the phenomenon of porn addiction and its effects on the brain. Since that clearly exists and is studied as a phenomenon just like any other addiction, I can’t see how you could dismiss it as “bunk.”
And going back to your first sentence, it clearly has an effect on relationships, according to many studies. Not only that, but women’s unrealistic romantic ideals also can break up relationships. (There– are we fair?)
No, actually some of us don’t need to learn those things. Some of us had it in spades, and have it still, but were in relationships in which it was unacknowledged, unappreciated and unrequited.
Say, are there any marital problems for whichwivesmight bear some responsibility? I even recall an earlier Rico thread asserting that it’s the mothers who do all the worrying and the fathers who do all the fun stuff. More abject bunk.
I think this is the sixth (or is it the tenth?) time someone has tried to evade the issue by bringing in the red herring of women’s problems. We all agree and have said repeatedly that women have their own problems. Start your own thread if you want to discuss them; this one is about porn addiction which is primarily a male phenomenon.
If you really think we’re blaming only men for all relationship problems, you’re falling for your own straw man argument.
No, actually some of us don’t need to learn those things. Some of us had it in spades, and have it still, but were in relationships in which it was unacknowledged, unappreciated and unrequited.
Again: so what? How is that relevant to the topic at hand? Some marriages need counseling. Some women are jerks.
Does any of that justify porn use?
It just looks to me like an effort to change the subject, or blame the unappreciative woman for our own addictions.
The porn that is widespread on the Internet now, and to which most men eventually gravitate, is extremely hard-core, graphic, and not a turn-on to a woman at all. I dare you to try to get most women to watch that kind with you and see if it turns her on.
Chris, you may have (inadvertently?) exposed the real issue with this thread and with discussions about porn. The word probably means 100 different things to 100 different people. The stuff you described, the depraved stuff, is definitely not what I think of when I hear the word “porn.” So maybe many of us are arguing past each other because maybe what one person visualizes when talking about “porn” is totally different from what the other person visualizes when rebutting. Some people think the SI Swimsuit Issue and the VS catalog are porn. That’s very different from the depraved stuff. At least I think it is…
What we are saying is that when porn is present, people (users, wives, families, children) suffer for it.
That can be the case, but it is not always or even often the case. To revert to my alcohol analogy, it neither denies the existence of alcoholism, nor of its harmful effects, to say that alcohol use is not inherently ruinous.
As the TedTalk presenter said, pornography use is ubiquitous: the number of men who have experience with it is almost identical to the number of men living. And yet, most men do not exhibit the kind of anti-social symptoms of porn addiction. That warrants acknowledgement and explanation.
No, actually some of us don’t need to learn those things. Some of us had it in spades, and have it still, but were in relationships in which it was unacknowledged, unappreciated and unrequited.
Again: so what? How is that relevant to the topic at hand? Some marriages need counseling. Some women are jerks.
Does any of that justify porn use?
It just looks to me like an effort to change the subject, or blame the unappreciative woman for our own addictions. ·6 minutes ago
Edited 3 minutes ago
No, I was just objecting to yet another reflexive assertion that casts all men in a stereotypical negative light. My comment had nothing to do with excusing or defending porn. Had to do with defending men against unfounded slights. As I did with the earlier Rico thread alleging that it’s the women worry about their children while it’s the men who enjoy doing the fun stuff. As though we fathers don’t worry about our kids. Gratuitous, stereotypical insults require rebuttal.
Great article, Chris, everyone should read it.
It’s one thing to be exposed to hardcore porn as an adult who has already experienced real life romantic relationships, and immediately recognizes how disconnected from reality it is. But what if you’re young, naive, and think it just captures on film what ordinary adults do behind closed doors?
How would you define those symptoms? Not every case goes to the extreme, but most people successfully hide their habit for a long time. That doesn’t mean they aren’t affected by it in subtle ways they can’t even themselves identify, because they can’t conceive of what they could be without it.
For example, depression or lack of motivation and drive. That is one of the side effects. Is that something we clearly can all see and point to as directly caused by porn in all cases? Of course not; but how many are suffering from it due to porn and don’t realize it?
I’m not denying that some people might use porn and suffer no ill effect. I’m pointing out that the effects can be subtle enough and hidden enough that you might miss the association– yet they can still be very real and harmful.
If men could just reconcile their personal standards with their community standards, the world would be a much better place.
What we are saying is that when porn is present, people (users, wives, families, children) suffer for it.
Thatcanbe the case, but it is not always or even often the case. To revert to my alcohol analogy, it neither denies the existence of alcoholism, nor of its harmful effects, to say that alcohol use is notinherentlyruinous.
As the TedTalk presenter said, pornography use is ubiquitous: the number of men who have experience with it is almost identical to the number of men living. And yet, most men do not exhibit the kind of anti-social symptoms of porn addiction. That warrants acknowledgement and explanation. ·20 minutes ago
Edited 19 minutes ago
Apparently it does not warrant any explanation at all. At least, no one here attacking porn has given one.
Also, if we are talking about porn, then we have to talk about women’s porn too. That is not hijacking a thread. Women’s porn is more common and more available to women. Are we saying that women have never been addicted to soap operas?
To only talk about men’s porn is one sided and not looking at a full equation.
The stuff you described, the depraved stuff, is definitely not what I think of when I hear the word “porn.” So maybe many of us are arguing past each other because maybe what one person visualizes when talking about “porn” is totally different from what the other person visualizes when rebutting. Some people think the SI Swimsuit Issue and the VS catalog are porn. That’s very different from the depraved stuff. At least I think it is…
Yes, I think that’s a great point. With the Internet we are seeing an explosion of the hardcore, violent, depraved type of porn. And it is available, for free, to 10 year old boys in their bedrooms.
These are uncharted waters, very different IMHO from teen boys keeping a copy of Playboy under the mattress.
How would you define those symptoms? Not every case goes to the extreme, but most people successfully hide their habit for a long time. That doesn’t mean they aren’t affected by it in subtle ways they can’t even themselves identify, because they can’t conceive of what they could be without it.
For example, depression or lack of motivation and drive. That is one of the side effects. Is that something we clearly can all see and point to as directly caused by porn in all cases? Of course not; but how many are suffering from it due to porn and don’t realize it?
I’m not denying that some people might use porn and suffer noill effect. I’m pointing out that the effects can be subtle enough and hidden enough that you might miss the association– yet they can still be very real and harmful. ·4 minutes ago
Like being racist without knowing it?
Is this really your argument? You cannot prove it with behavior or self-reports but you extrapolate your experience ans assume it is universal. That is not science, which is where this thread started.
Women’s porn is more common and more available to women. Are we saying that women have never been addicted to soap operas?
Do you really think the kind of hardcore porn described in the article Chris cited are as innocent and harmless as a soap opera?
What we are saying is that when porn is present, people (users, wives, families, children) suffer for it.
Thatcanbe the case, but it is not always or even often the case. To revert to my alcohol analogy, it neither denies the existence of alcoholism, nor of its harmful effects, to say that alcohol use is notinherentlyruinous.
The scientific data don’t say conclusively one way or another how widespread the pathologies are that could arise from internet porn use, which is not surprising since it’s a fairly new phenomena. What they do say is that porn is increasingly common and that it has been strongly linked to dozens of pathologies, some worse than others. My experience is that porn use is usually negative, sometimes benign, never positive.
Since our contention is that porn (esp. internet porn) is ruinous, comparisons with alcohol break down beyond simple addiction analogies.
-E
Yes, I think that’s a great point. With the Internet we are seeing an explosion of the hardcore, violent, depraved type of porn. And it is available, for free, to 10 year old boys in their bedrooms.
These are uncharted waters, very different IMHO from teen boys keeping a copy of Playboy under the mattress.
I also want to go on record as saying this is an important point that people on my side should address. The Internet makes the ugly stuff vastly more accessible to everyone, including those who wouldn’t have sought or even been aware of it before. Though I’m skeptical that exposure is as harmful as others have said, I can’t see how regular use of that is healthy.
Mollie Hemingway informed me that this conversation has been linked t0 on the homepage at HotAir.com, which means all of you are now famous porn pundits.
I’ve enjoyed reading your comments. A couple of things are clear from this conversation. Clearly many folks believe they have been negatively affected by porn in their personal lives and relationships. And, further, we are just beginning to understand the unique problems that internet porn presents neurologically, with its rapid access to a high volume of images.
“Moderation doesn’t apply to murder.” Good point, Ed.
Soap opera addicts possibly have similar dopamine reaction and what about the fall out…
The cliche “all things in moderation” implies that anything can be taken too far and become harmful, including novels, soap operas, games, food, and – God forbid – Ricochet. However, “all” doesn’t really meanall, does it? Moderation doesn’t apply to murder. So another implication of the cliche is that there is a scale on one end of which we have things that are acceptable or beneficial if used/done in moderation (e.g. eating) while on the other end of the scale we have things that are always unacceptable or harmful regardless of moderation (e.g. murder).
Generic pleasure isn’t under attack in this thread; we’re discussing both immoderation and pornography’s place on the scale. ·9 hours ago
What we are saying is that when porn is present, people (users, wives, families, children) suffer for it.
Thatcanbe the case, but it is not always or even often the case. To revert to my alcohol analogy, it neither denies the existence of alcoholism, nor of its harmful effects, to say that alcohol use is notinherentlyruinous.
The scientific data don’t say conclusively one way or another how widespread the pathologies are that could arise from internet porn use, which is not surprising since it’s a fairly new phenomena. What theydosay is that porn is increasingly common and that it has been strongly linked to dozens of pathologies, some worse than others. My experience is that porn use is usually negative, sometimes benign, never positive.
Since our contention is that porn (esp. internet porn) is ruinous, comparisons with alcohol break down beyond simple addiction analogies.
-E ·32 minutes ago
That clarifies things a bit. To you, porn is as dangerous as harder drugs than alcohol?
I have to say, in my experience, that is not the case.
Women’s porn is more common and more available to women. Are we saying that women have never been addicted to soap operas?
Do you really think the kind of hardcore porn described in the article Chris cited are as innocent and harmless as a soap opera? ·39 minutes ago
Are we only talking about extreme porn here? That was not clear in the video. That seemed to say that all porn use leads to use of extreme porn. I figured we were talking about it all.
Since we are only talking about goat porn now, I can say, yes, I am not for goat porn.