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  1. Could Be Anyone Inactive
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    This whole thing was done under the wrong statute. It should have been done under a bipartisan congressional committee or as a normal FBI counter intelligence investigation. Not as a special prosecutor.

    I bet there are several different statutes it could be done under but Trump decided to have it done under this one, as independent investigations are not subject to the whims of any branch, for the sake of removing any possible allegations of political tampering.

    • #61
  2. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):
    In the case of Trump and obstruction of justice the report found that they could find no intent (an element they would have to prove if he was prosecuted) behind Trump’s obstructive actions so he would not be indicted.

    And none of it should have been made public. 

    • #62
  3. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):
    Trump decided to have it done under this one,

    If you say so. 

    • #63
  4. Could Be Anyone Inactive
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):
    Trump decided to have it done under this one,

    If you say so.

    Was the investigation not enacted at his request? If not I am more than happy to hear a fully supported alternative explanation.


    RufusRJones (View Comment)
    :

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):
    In the case of Trump and obstruction of justice the report found that they could find no intent (an element they would have to prove if he was prosecuted) behind Trump’s obstructive actions so he would not be indicted.

    And none of it should have been made public.

    Why? Under what principle should government not be transparent in its workings?

    • #64
  5. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):
    Why? Under what principle should government not be transparent in its workings?

    Investigations aren’t made public until a prosecutor files charges.  

    • #65
  6. Could Be Anyone Inactive
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):
    Why? Under what principle should government not be transparent in its workings?

    Investigations aren’t made public until a prosecutor files charges.

    As stated before it was an independent investigation, not a prosecution looking for prey. There was never going to be a possibility of the DOJ indicting Trump. The current precedent is that a branch of government cannot bring legal cases against itself (example being that DOJ indicts Trump for conspiracy).

    • #66
  7. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):
    Why? Under what principle should government not be transparent in its workings?

    Investigations aren’t made public until a prosecutor files charges.

    As stated before it was an independent investigation, not a prosecution. There was never going to be a possibility of the DOJ indicting Trump. The current precedent is that a branch of government cannot bring legal cases against itself (example being that DOJ indicts Trump for conspiracy).

    So you say this was done under the proper statute? 

    • #67
  8. Could Be Anyone Inactive
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    So you say this was done under the proper statute? 

    I bet there were multiple statutes that could enable investigations.

    • #68
  9. Roosevelt Guck Inactive
    Roosevelt Guck
    @RooseveltGuck

    This lady should take Amash’s place in Congress.

    • #69
  10. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    What is puzzling to me is that no one has decided to link to what the heck Representative Amash himself said. Here is a 3 min. clip of what Representative Amash said. It appears that the Fox News Channel failed to include this clip, but decided to go only with what a disgruntled constituent said.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqjoBtqe1Fo

    And what, pray tell, did you @garyrobbins find enlightening about that clip of Amash? He claims Mueller set forth several incidents where Trump might have committed a crime. That would be obstruction only, because Mueller had just spent 200 plus pages agonizingly concluding Trump committed no actual crime, that being conspiratorial collusion with Russians. SNIP insinuating that the “RULE” was the reason he didn’t indict. Oh, and then, 2 hours into his ride into the sunset, he has to backtrack and state, as Gilda Radner used for her punch line…Never Mind!! Robert Mueller really needs to find a good rocking chair. SNIP

    SNIP

    The bottom line was:

    “Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment, … not draw ultimate conclusions about the Pres‘s conduct. SNIP Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

    SNIPHere it is:

    SNIP

    “FACTUAL RESULTS OF THE OBSTRUCTION INVESTIGATION

    “The key issues and events we examined include the following:

    “The Campaign’s response to reports about Russian support for Trump. During the 2016 presidential campaign, questions arose about the Russian government’s apparent support for candidate Trump. After WikiLeaks released politically damaging Democratic Party emails that were reported to have been hacked by Russia, Trump publicly expressed skepticism that Russia was responsible for the hacks at the same time that he and other Campaign officials privately sought information [Redacted: Harm to Ongoing Matter] about any further planned WikiLeaks releases. Trump also denied having any business in or connections to Russia, even though… June 2016 the Trump Organization had been pursuing a licensing deal for a skyscraper… in Russia called Trump Tower Moscow. After the election, Trump expressed concerns…reports of Russia’s election interference might lead the public to question the legitimacy of his election.

    SNIP

    SNIP

    SNIP

    First of all Gary I am curious how you were able to make such a  lengthy reply. In attempting to answer you, I had to snip out over 2000 words! I thought each respondent only got 500? Are you a ninja ricochet hacker, and if so pls PM how  you managed this so I don’t spend so much time SNIPping when I reply to folks.

    Secondly  the hack that provided the emails to Wikileaks  was not a hack, it was an internal leak, probably by Seth Rich, a staffer at the DNC. Forensic examination of what went on has proven this. No less an expert than Bill Binney showed the time signature meant it was via a USB or flash drive device and not hacking.

    • #70
  11. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Andy McCarthy just said again the Muller wasn’t supposed to produce a report. 

    • #71
  12. Mim526 Inactive
    Mim526
    @Mim526

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    The last is irrelevant to the question at hand–Amash and impeachment. And yes, given the lack of evidence that Trump has committed an impeachable offense after two years of an arguably partisan investigation , combined with Amash’s libertarian policy differences, it’s reasonable to conclude that Amash is either not particularly bright or a political opportunist. While both might work, I’ll admit to being strongly in the latter camp.

    I have not read the Mueller Report and will pretend to be an expert on its findings or conclusions but to my knowledge Amash claims that Barr was misleading with his interpretation and argues from the obstruction angle. Amash could be wrong in that assertion but maybe he just genuinely believes that the President ought to be held responsible for his failed attempts at obstruction, which was linked in the Washington examiner article.

    In my opinion the plan will not work. But what would he have to gain from his criticism? I doubt it will increase his likelihood of getting a senate seat against Garry Peters or the Presidency, as he stated in the examiner article. This is all besides the point that he has been a critic of the President from the start anyways. I find personal gain as the motive to be unlikely given said information.

    The entire Mueller Report is quite a task to read. However, Mueller created both an Introduction and an Executive Summary as to Volume I: Collusion and Volume II: Obstruction. Here they are:

    http://ricochet.com/615718/the-mueller-report-in-four-summaries/

    As an FYI to those who may not be aware, Robert Mueller’s team submitted these summaries to the Attorney General with the full report.  They did not submit the report, however, with the grand jury (6e) material identified as AG Barr himself had formally requested on March 5 after weeks of his office being  stonewalled by Mueller’s team.

    Mueller’s team was highly upset when Barr did not release the summaries ahead of the report itself which they knew Barr could not legally release without knowing what material in it was grand jury-related.  There is clear intent to stall the AG’s office and let the summaries — some of the most prejudicial/biased parts of the Mueller report, which itself is a prosecutorial document that provides one side — drive a narrative for which they had no legal basis.

    A fair, objective reading of the Mueller report requires a broader knowledge of things its contents do not provide.  The report is woefully inadequate at providing context of and possible explanations for Trump/Trump team’s actions.   You also need to look at the team itself, how and what they did and did not investigate, how and what they wrote in the report (there are some things being released that paint a disturbing picture of things being edited to depict nefarious intent).

    • #72
  13. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Mim526 (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Could Be Anyone (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    The last is irrelevant to the question at hand–Amash and impeachment. And yes, given the lack of evidence that Trump has committed an impeachable offense after two years of an arguably partisan investigation , combined with Amash’s libertarian policy differences, it’s reasonable to conclude that Amash is either not particularly bright or a political opportunist. While both might work, I’ll admit to being strongly in the latter camp.

    I have not read the Mueller Report and will pretend to be an expert on its findings or conclusions but to my knowledge Amash claims that Barr was misleading with his interpretation and argues from the obstruction angle. Amash could be wrong in that assertion but maybe he just genuinely believes that the President ought to be held responsible for his failed attempts at obstruction, which was linked in the Washington examiner article.

    SNIP

    The entire Mueller Report is quite a task to read. However, Mueller created both an Introduction and an Executive Summary as to Volume I: Collusion and Volume II: Obstruction. Here they are:

    http://ricochet.com/615718/the-mueller-report-in-four-summaries/

    As an FYI to those who may not be aware, Robert Mueller’s team submitted these summaries to the Attorney General with the full report. They did not submit the report, however, with the grand jury (6e) material identified as AG Barr himself had formally requested on March 5 after weeks of his office being stonewalled by Mueller’s team.

    Mueller’s team was highly upset when Barr did not release the summaries ahead of the report itself which they knew Barr could not legally release without knowing what material in it was grand jury-related. There is clear intent to stall the AG’s office and let the summaries — some of the most prejudicial/biased parts of the Mueller report, which itself is a prosecutorial document that provides one side — drive a narrative for which they had no legal basis.

    A fair, objective reading of the Mueller report requires a broader knowledge of things its contents do not provide. The report is woefully inadequate at providing context of and possible explanations for Trump/Trump team’s actions. You also need to look at the team itself, how and what they did and did not investigate, how and what they wrote in the report (there are some things being released that paint a disturbing picture of things being edited to depict nefarious intent).

    @Mim526 You are posting a   most excellent summary and rebuttal  to  those who are total  devotees of all accusations against Trump, and who also stand in awe of all things Mueller. Thank you.

    • #73
  14. Mim526 Inactive
    Mim526
    @Mim526

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):
    @Mim526 You are posting a most excellent summary and rebuttal to those who are total devotees of all accusations against Trump, and who also stand in awe of all things Mueller. Thank you.

    Appreciate your comments as well, @caroljoy.  I’d had growing concerns about Mueller’s team and investigation that were sadly born out in their end report, and I do mean ‘sadly’ because I’d hoped from the day he was appointed that, while I did not believe it warranted or per code, he truly would “get to the bottom of what happened” as I recall Lindsey Graham saying around that time.

    After I read/skimmed the report when it first came out, my strongest impression was of what had not been investigated or reported that Americans need to know.  I now have several pages worth of typed notes and links (with additional dozens of pages in those links of articles and others’ research findings) that are alarming in what they reveal about the Mueller team/report, the press, and some of our public officials.  I’m not talking conspiracy theories, outrage-of-the-day, talk radio, etc. stuff, but overwhelming and broad based cause for concern.

    Of everything going on in our government and political arena I find concerning, this disturbs me most.  Domestic and foreign policy are very important.  These people can take our lives and liberty away, and I have a growing awareness what we’re seeing bubble up to the surface is the result of a pervasive culture in federal law enforcement/justice that is antithetical to our Constitution.

    For me this is not about POTUS or Mueller per se, though my sense of fairness has been thoroughly triggered by #resistance behavior past and present.  Rule of law, a phrase used frequently these days, means different things among Americans.  In practical terms I’ve come to think of it as follow the law vs. use the law types (with Barr in follow and Mueller/Weissmann in the use categories as examples).

    To repeat a critical point someone else made online:  a rule of law basic definition at a minimum requires a barrier between law and politics which I am increasingly disappointed to see people like Romney giving no indication they even comprehend, let alone support, when they lambast Trump yet remain silent about Mueller’s overreaches, DNC/HRC/FusionGPS oppo disaster, etc.  Which puts them on the use the law for political purposes side, not the follow it wherever/whoever no more no less side in my Rule of Law equation.

    • #74
  15. Mim526 Inactive
    Mim526
    @Mim526

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    The Republican party never dealt directly with all of the changes from Wilson, FDR, and LBJ. That’s the problem.

    One of the most important and true observations in this thread IMO.

    Also true is that the GOP had not been the party of Reagan long before Donald Trump ran for office and won in 2016.

    • #75
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