Success of Stupidity

 

I had never heard of Jeremy McLellan until an associate retweeted these thought-provoking comments. What do you make of them?

We’ve been told that a “free marketplace of ideas” will stamp out bad ideas and allow good ones to thrive. The opposite seems to be happening. Not surprised. Markets are good at giving people what they want at the lowest cost. What happens if we want bad information?

The incentives are completely backwards. There are no consequences for spreading hoaxes. You get page clicks, ad revenue, policy changes, millions of followers, and if it eventually gets exposed as a lie, none of that goes away. No one gets fired and no one unfollows you.

Not sure what the answer is. We’re probably doomed for the moment and it will only get worse. Some will realize the lies and switch sides only to be spoonfed the same amount of lies from the other perspective. It’s the incentives that are broken.

How does “the marketplace of ideas” fare these days? What other than the cudgel of political correctness and mere wishful thinking help errors and harmful ideas to flourish?

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  1. Muleskinner, Weasel Wrangler Member
    Muleskinner, Weasel Wrangler
    @Muleskinner

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    I’m rethinking some of my earlier comments. Maybe the point of a free exchange (marketplace?) for ideas isn’t to bury the bad ideas, but to allow good ideas to be born. How would a good idea become available for consideration in any system that wasn’t open?

    Most of the good ideas I’ve ever had were revised up from half-baked–or half-something (or worse). 

    • #31
  2. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    A lot of success is due to chance, or luck.  But luck eventually runs out.  And that moment is the proof of the pudding. IMHO true of ideas and ideologies as well. 

    • #32
  3. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    Great acting and star power can save a mediocre story from obscurity.

    As can great special effects.

    • #33
  4. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I’ve been thinking more about two hypotheses regarding the prevalence of bad ideas in the wealthiest, most educated societies.

    The Wealth Hypothesis:  Wealth gives a person a greater cushion between bad decisions and calamities.  Put simply, you can get away with mistakes if you’re pretty well off, while the same mistakes would cause disaster if you’re poor.

    The Victim Hypothesis:  You can avoid learning from your mistakes if you have an ideology that allows you to attribute the negative consequences of your bad choices (or your inadequacies) to someone else.  Race is an example.  Blacks have an illegitimacy rate of around 75%, and it is well established that this is strongly correlated with low income and increased crime.  But you can ignore this and claim systemic racism, perpetuating the problem.  I don’t want to pick on black Americans particularly, but this is the most obvious example.  A similar problem applies to underclass whites (who tend toward either a Marxist class war explanation or a reverse racism explanation).

    • #34
  5. Amy Schley Coolidge
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):
    The Wealth Hypothesis: Wealth gives a person a greater cushion between bad decisions and calamities. Put simply, you can get away with mistakes if you’re pretty well off, while the same mistakes would cause disaster if you’re poor.

    Or as the Financial Times put it in 1988, “Embrace Crunchiness

    Crunchiness brings wealth. Wealth leads to sogginess. Sogginess brings poverty. Poverty creates crunchiness. From this immutable cycle we know that to hang on to wealth, you must keep things crunchy.

    Crunchy systems are those in which small changes have big effects leaving those affected by them in no doubt whether they are up or down, rich or broke, winning or losing, dead or alive. The going was crunchy for Captain Scott as he plodded southwards across the sastrugi. He was either on top of the snow-crust and smiling, or floundering thigh-deep. The farther south he marched the crunchier his predicament became.

    Sogginess is comfortable uncertainty. The modern Scott is unsure how deeply he is in it. He can radio for an airlift, or drop in on an American early-warning station for a hot toddy. The richer a society becomes, the soggier its systems get. Light-switches no longer turn on or off: they dim…

    Some of these softnesses are the welcome accompaniments of wealth. But lurking beyond sogginess lies moral hazard and systemic drama.

    • #35
  6. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    Free markets are only as efficient as the flawed humans that comprise it will allow. The market fluctuates as the consequences of those flaws are revealed. The market place of ideas would not be any different. As Valiuth says, over time, ideas will be accepted and rejected on their proven merits. Yet, there are constraints of corruption and ignorance that add volatility. There is a reason that the American experiment in liberty is an exception to the rule. We are flawed and anything we create will be likewise.

    • #36
  7. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):

    Free markets are only as efficient as the flawed humans that comprise it will allow. The market fluctuates as the consequences of those flaws are revealed. The market place of ideas would not be any different. As Valiuth says, over time, ideas will be accepted and rejected on their proven merits. Yet, there are constraints of corruption and ignorance that add volatility. There is a reason that the American experiment in liberty is an exception to the rule. We are flawed and anything we create will be likewise.

    If there are bad ideas that help me exploit my fellow humans to my own advantage, I’m in favor of them.

    • #37
  8. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):

    Free markets are only as efficient as the flawed humans that comprise it will allow. The market fluctuates as the consequences of those flaws are revealed. The market place of ideas would not be any different. As Valiuth says, over time, ideas will be accepted and rejected on their proven merits. Yet, there are constraints of corruption and ignorance that add volatility. There is a reason that the American experiment in liberty is an exception to the rule. We are flawed and anything we create will be likewise.

    If there are bad ideas that help me exploit my fellow humans to my own advantage, I’m in favor of them.

    Sure, that’s the plan. Nobody sees the long run where someone or multiple folks realize that you are exploiting them and that someone or those multiple folks decide that your bad ideas need to be “enlightened” a bit.

    • #38
  9. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    I think something else to consider with respect to the aspect of time I brought up is that the long run isn’t for individuals per say. Like it was pointed out, saying in 70 years communism will fall to people in 1917 is of limited comfort to the Kulaks murdered by it. But, then again us conservatives also acknowledge that the world does not begin and end with us. 70 years is a life time for an individual but it is not that long for a society, culture, people, or species. In the long run all of us are dead, but our countries, civilizations, cultures, institutions don’t have to be. You need a system that has long term efficiency, even if it has short term problems. 

    American has many short term problems, but has proven to be rather stable on the generational scale. After all while the American culture is fairly new in a sense as a political entity America is one of the oldest continuous political entity on Earth. Certainly of our size. 

    • #39
  10. Mark Wilson Inactive
    Mark Wilson
    @MarkWilson

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    You need a system that has long term efficiency, even if it has short term problems. 

    I wonder if the tendency of people to constantly fret about the decline and impending doom of our culture/country/civilization is actually a type of built-in immune system response that actually serves to preserve it.  In other words maybe the pessimists would be right if not for the pessimists’ self-denying prophecy.  

    • #40
  11. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Mark Wilson (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    You need a system that has long term efficiency, even if it has short term problems.

    I wonder if the tendency of people to constantly fret about the decline and impending doom of our culture/country/civilization is actually a type of built-in immune system response that actually serves to preserve it. In other words maybe the pessimists would be right if not for the pessimists’ self-denying prophecy.

    You probably need a good mixture of both. Enough worry to stay alert but enough optimism not to get bogged down and paralyzed by your fears. As a biologist you see so many amazingly resilient systems riding on the edge of a knife, but the edge is the only place you can be. That is the space between life and just random chemistry. I always get the feeling all complex systems are like this. Stuck in dynamic tension, always balancing against the increase in entropy physics demands. 

    I think I recall reading in Jurassic Park the description of life’s evolution as “furiously running in place”. Or something like that. 

    Civilization I think is much the same. Constant effort to keep things up and running that by the laws of physics should collapse into a heap. But, while we have had set backs (mass civilization extinctions) Civilization is proving resilient. Since 6000BC has there ever not been at least one functioning city in the world? And today hunter gathering has been thoroughly out competed as a survival model for humans. 

    • #41
  12. Amy Schley Coolidge
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    I think I recall reading in Jurassic Park the description of life’s evolution as “furiously running in place”. Or something like that. 

     It’s called the Red Queen theory, referencing the line in “Through the Looking Glass” where the Red Queen tells Alice that they have to run as fast as they can just to stay where they are. 

    • #42
  13. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    But, while we have had set backs (mass civilization extinctions) Civilization is proving resilient. Since 6000BC has there ever not been at least one functioning city in the world? And today hunter gathering has been thoroughly out competed as a survival model for humans. 

    Yeah, but how did it go between, say, 12,000 BC and 6,000 BC?

    • #43
  14. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):

    Free markets are only as efficient as the flawed humans that comprise it will allow. The market fluctuates as the consequences of those flaws are revealed. The market place of ideas would not be any different. As Valiuth says, over time, ideas will be accepted and rejected on their proven merits. Yet, there are constraints of corruption and ignorance that add volatility. There is a reason that the American experiment in liberty is an exception to the rule. We are flawed and anything we create will be likewise.

    If there are bad ideas that help me exploit my fellow humans to my own advantage, I’m in favor of them.

    And if the right path is ideologically narrow, and the wrong path is wide, then there are a lot more options with the wrong one.  Perhaps there are a lot more functionally doable paths.  But it doesn’t make any of them right.  And if you take the wrong path, it can take a whole lifetime for it to demonstrate its ideological failure, and for it to finally fail functionally.  But even then it doesn’t necessarily lead to better choices.

    Look at the Soviet Union.

    • #44
  15. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    But, while we have had set backs (mass civilization extinctions) Civilization is proving resilient. Since 6000BC has there ever not been at least one functioning city in the world? And today hunter gathering has been thoroughly out competed as a survival model for humans.

    Yeah, but how did it go between, say, 12,000 BC and 6,000 BC?

    Well clearly it survived, or was such a good idea that it was independently reinvented. In fact it most certainly seems to have been independently re-invented numerous times. Just thinking of the Americas which had no communication with Asia, Africa, and Europe for many millennia. Yet on nearly every continent cities arose at one point or another independently of each other. I think Australia might be the only continent that was inhabited that didn’t have cities prior to European colonization (but I don’t know to much about Australian aborigines to say that with any confidence). 

    • #45
  16. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    (but I don’t know to much about Australian aborigines to say that with any confidence). 

    They (Melanesians) were the first to colonize the Americas.

    • #46
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