Over/Under on How Many Fascists It Takes To Destroy America?

 

Tucker Carlson has a powerful commentary reviewing how many people have lost their jobs or otherwise suffered personally and financially for the simple act of expressing an opinion that does not pass muster with the corporate political correctness police in Silicon Valley. He challenged Trump to make First Amendment protection a high priority of the Justice Department. He asked the rhetorical question regarding how the Holder Justice Department would have reacted to actions by Silicon Valley against an Obama supporter? 

Carlson’s commentary underscored a toothless Trump Administration (press assertions of persecution notwithstanding) when it comes to the First Amendment rights of his supporters or just even free thinkers or Christian believers. Carlson questioned that if Trump cannot make those who voted for him feel that their personal liberties are more secure in 2020 due to his Presidency, then should he be President in 2021?

This highlights how strong fascism has become in our culture. And yet I firmly believe that the vast majority of Americans do not want this. So my question then becomes: How many fascists does it take to destroy America?

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 68 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Remember when conservatives understood the Bill of Rights limited government action not private consequences for actions?

    There is government action when government discriminates in its enforcement of laws.

    There is government action when government colludes or even organizes such as in Operation Choke Point and its state analogues.

    What does this have to do with people who have “lost their jobs or otherwise suffered personally and financially for the simple act of expressing an opinion that does not pass muster with the corporate political correctness police in Silicon Valley?“

    • #31
  2. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    Rodin (View Comment):
    lost their jobs or otherwise suffered personally and financially for the simple act of expressing an opinion that does not pass muster with the corporate political correctness police in Silicon Valley.

    When did political statements gain protected class status?

    If they had such protection, it would be statutory not constitutional.

    • #32
  3. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):
    lost their jobs or otherwise suffered personally and financially for the simple act of expressing an opinion that does not pass muster with the corporate political correctness police in Silicon Valley.

    When did political statements gain protected class status?

    If they had such protection, it would be statutory not constitutional.

    Again, I thought all speech was protected.

    • #33
  4. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):
    lost their jobs or otherwise suffered personally and financially for the simple act of expressing an opinion that does not pass muster with the corporate political correctness police in Silicon Valley.

    When did political statements gain protected class status?

    If they had such protection, it would be statutory not constitutional.

    Again, I thought all speech was protected.

    From government not private consequences.

    • #34
  5. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Rodin (View Comment):

    @susanquinn, I have added a link to Tucker’s show to the OP. The commentary starts at 19:16.

    Rodin, I missed the show you posted and am glad you mentioned it here.

    I like Tucker more than any other voice currently on TV. He remains true to his own individual beliefs, including opposition to a bloated military budget, as well as apparently  endless never-winnable wars, and other philosophies not currently held by the dictates of Prime Time TV and the Corporate Overlords who want all opinion makers to conform to their needs.

    • #35
  6. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Roderic Fabian (View Comment):

    Many people voted for Trump because he wanted to “drain the swamp”, reduce the size and power of government, and many of the things he’s doing are along those lines. He has reduced regulations tremendously, for example, and limited the scope of bureaucratic power. He has named justices to the court who are skeptical of the use of government power. His efforts to bring jobs to this country have been well within his proper powers according to the Constitution. So far so good.

    But some of the things Trump proposes doing go in the wrong direction, toward the government exercising more power in dodgy ways, toward the direction of stomping on the Constitution. For this reason some conservatives complain that Trump doesn’t seem to have a coherent ideology and is therefore liable to do anything, possibly the wrong thing entirely. (“We told you so!”, I can hear them saying.) An example of this would be the suggestion that he could declare a state of emergency to get the wall at the border built. That would be borderline fascist, and very scary, not the least because his authority to do that is questionable.

    Carlson seems to be demanding that Trump use the power of government to help his supporters in concrete and not entirely constitutional ways, like this suggestion to force private companies to follow speech rules according to our dictates. Sorry, folks, but that’s fascistic. Trump’s demand that GM “better not” move jobs overseas is another example of this. Trump doesn’t have the proper authority as President to do that.

    We must avoid the temptation to be totalitarian even if, or especially when, it benefits us.

    So here is a question that centers on a concrete example: let’s say you have children who grow up with decent educations in computer science and other technological fields of study like AI.

    Like you, they hold firm to conservative beliefs and principles. When they send their job applications and resumes out, they get nowhere in terms of being hired, due to the fact that over their lives, they have made their political philosophy known on social media such as facebook and ricochet.

    In this day and age, HR people search out such social media sites to determine the background of job applicants. (If you want to envision totalitarianism, it is rampantly well established  inside the tech firms.)

    Your children never seem to get jobs inside the well paying technology firms, be they located inside Silicon Valley or Austin Texas. Would you end up feeling differently about what you just posted, if this totalitarianism, which you seem somehow to miss, affected your family in this manner?

    • #36
  7. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    From government not private consequences.

    Wait a second.  All political speech is protected from the government, but civil rights law which can be enforced through the government, does not allow, for example, a Hindu to not be hired because of his religion, or to be fired for his religion, or to be fired for the faithful living according to his religion, such as in its simplest forms, thinking about it, talking about it, and in other benign ways acting upon it.

    It’s against the law for anyone to discriminate based on ones creed, or religion.  Theft, for example, in prohibited in my spiritual conscience and my so-called religion, and if I say so, this is a function of my religion and my creed,  it is protected from both being fired for saying it, and from being refused service in a business, say a diner, for saying it.

    Are you writing here that my understanding is wrong in this?

    • #37
  8. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Are you writing here that my understanding is wrong in this?

    Yes, anti-discrimination laws prohibit private entities from making hiring and service decisions on certain defined basis, normally membership in a protected class.  Political statements are not covered by such laws.

    • #38
  9. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):
    lost their jobs or otherwise suffered personally and financially for the simple act of expressing an opinion that does not pass muster with the corporate political correctness police in Silicon Valley.

    When did political statements gain protected class status?

    If they had such protection, it would be statutory not constitutional.

    Again, I thought all speech was protected.

    Tell that to the conservative voices who have been de-monetized on youtube, and censored on Facebook or twitter.

    • #39
  10. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Remember when conservatives understood the Bill of Rights limited government action not private consequences for actions?

    There is government action when government discriminates in its enforcement of laws.

    There is government action when government colludes or even organizes such as in Operation Choke Point and its state analogues.

    What does this have to do with people who have “lost their jobs or otherwise suffered personally and financially for the simple act of expressing an opinion that does not pass muster with the corporate political correctness police in Silicon Valley?“

    Because the government (more state governments) absolutely jump in to protect leftists.

    Also, it is axiomatic that government can’t contract out discrimination.

    • #40
  11. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Rodin (View Comment):

    @barfly, thank you for taking a stab at my question. 2% in a country of 350 million is 7,000,000. How close are we to that now? More, less?

    Let’s stipulate that they have to be dedicated fascists, i.e. they really need to be persuaded that their ideas are right and that it is critical (for whatever reason) that everyone conform. They have to believe that something they really don’t want to have happen will occur unless they get everyone in line.

    Let’s also stipulate that simply endowing 7,000,000 random people with rabid fascism would not cause a society to crumble. Instead they need to be in positions of power or influence within their respective spheres. And that their distribution needs to be fairly comprehensive in our legal, social, educational, governmental, and commercial systems.

    That’s right, 7/350 is hardly enough agents to matter if they’re distributed randomly throughout the population. If, however, that concentration were found within the highly connected subset of media and political actors then I think it’d be enough to destabilize the whole.

    • #41
  12. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Flicker (View Comment):
    I committed suicide once — it didn’t take.

    I’m glad to (be able to) hear it. Isn’t despair awful, just the worst state imaginable?

    Flicker (View Comment):
    But seriously, is the argument forming up here that a fascist, or support for fascist actions (such as punishing corporations in some way for their business decisions) might be the only way to stop a determined critical push by socialist anarchists and fascists off the precipice and into a more violent and enduring fascism and anarchy?

    Is punishing (or otherwise influencing or controlling) corporations fascism if it’s not the government that does it? I think we need to take as much of this load as possible out of the realm of government and into private hands.

    • #42
  13. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Because the government (more state governments) absolutely jump in to protect leftists.

    For example?

    • #43
  14. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):

    @barfly, thank you for taking a stab at my question. 2% in a country of 350 million is 7,000,000. How close are we to that now? More, less?

    Let’s stipulate that they have to be dedicated fascists, i.e. they really need to be persuaded that their ideas are right and that it is critical (for whatever reason) that everyone conform. They have to believe that something they really don’t want to have happen will occur unless they get everyone in line.

    Let’s also stipulate that simply endowing 7,000,000 random people with rabid fascism would not cause a society to crumble. Instead they need to be in positions of power or influence within their respective spheres. And that their distribution needs to be fairly comprehensive in our legal, social, educational, governmental, and commercial systems.

    That’s right, 7/350 is hardly enough agents to matter if they’re distributed randomly throughout the population. If, however, that concentration were found within the highly connected subset of media and political actors then I think it’d be enough to destabilize the whole.

    Seven million bombers inside the US.  That is a lot.  I was just here on Ricochet directed to a review of Days or Rage, in it read:

    “One thing that Burrough returns to in Days of Rage, over and over and over, is how forgotten so much of this stuff is. Puerto Rican separatists bombed NYC like 300 times, killed people, shot up Congress, tried to kill POTUS (Truman). Nobody remembers it.”

    And this was just a couple handfuls of people.  And then regarding mixtures and weighting, this network happened to be at first unknowingly and then knowingly supported financially and legally by the a major US church denomination.

    Seven million indeed.

    • #44
  15. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Barfly (View Comment):
    I’m glad to (be able to) hear it. Isn’t despair awful, just the worst state imaginable?

    Um, just for the readers here and for the NSA, just so you know, I was kidding.  I was trying to be light-hearted and jovial in a sense.  I’ve never died and come back.  But yes, despair is certainly awful, especially when you really are stuck in something that you can’t get out of.  But no, as for myself, I never really committed suicide.

    • #45
  16. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Seven million bombers inside the US. That is a lot. I was just here on Ricochet directed to a review of Days or Rage, in it read:

    “One thing that Burrough returns to in Days of Rage, over and over and over, is how forgotten so much of this stuff is. Puerto Rican separatists bombed NYC like 300 times, killed people, shot up Congress, tried to kill POTUS (Truman). Nobody remembers it.”

    And this was just a couple handfuls of people. And then regarding mixtures and weighting, this network happened to be at first unknowingly and then knowingly supported financially and legally by the a major US church denomination.

    Seven million indeed.

    I wasn’t thinking about 7 million literal bomb throwers, just garden variety leftist/fascists. But I note that even with that level of extreme behavior (300 bombings in one large city) the PR separatists didn’t move the Overton window. But consider what a similar number of agents can do today, from within the media and political apparat, without even having to handle explosives. 

    • #46
  17. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Barfly (View Comment):
    I wasn’t thinking about 7 million literal bomb throwers, just garden variety leftist/fascists. But I note that even with that level of extreme behavior (300 bombings in one large city) the PR separatists didn’t move the Overton window. But consider what a similar number of agents can do today, from within the media and political apparat, without even having to handle explosives. 

    Well, dedicated leftists, anarchists.  Seven million is high, of course.  But when you consider a network of only a few thousand bombers, that’s still enough to bring the US to — what? — a stand still?  Fear?  Third-worldism?

    I guess in that situation we would want the government looking over everyone’s shoulder.

    • #47
  18. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Well, dedicated leftists, anarchists. Seven million is high, of course. But when you consider a network of only a few thousand bombers, that’s still enough to bring the US to — what? — a stand still? Fear? Third-worldism?

    I guess in that situation we would want the government looking over everyone’s shoulder.

    I think we could actually have a huge number of active bomb throwers and yet maintain stability, if the media and political actors kept their stuff together. I think what began as a relatively small number of active fascists within the media and government has metastasized into something that has already decimated the core of major cities, is in the process of importing an illiterate and decidedly un-American sub-population, and will if unchecked lead to people like me being herded into camps.

    The last thing we need is the (feral) government looking over us.

    • #48
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Barfly (View Comment):
    the (feral) government looking over us.

    I never thought of it that way.  But you’re right.

    • #49
  20. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Um, just for the readers here and for the NSA, just so you know, I was kidding. I was trying to be light-hearted and jovial in a sense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gO7uemm6Yo

    Brings on many changes. Can’t help it, I always giggle at that. The song is appropriate to societies as well as individuals.

    • #50
  21. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    Roderic Fabian (View Comment):

    But some of the things Trump proposes doing go in the wrong direction, toward the government exercising more power in dodgy ways, toward the direction of stomping on the Constitution. For this reason some conservatives complain that Trump doesn’t seem to have a coherent ideology and is therefore liable to do anything, possibly the wrong thing entirely. (“We told you so!”, I can hear them saying.) An example of this would be the suggestion that he could declare a state of emergency to get the wall at the border built. That would be borderline fascist, and very scary, not the least because his authority to do that is questionable.

    Carlson seems to be demanding that Trump use the power of government to help his supporters in concrete and not entirely constitutional ways, like this suggestion to force private companies to follow speech rules according to our dictates. Sorry, folks, but that’s fascistic. Trump’s demand that GM “better not” move jobs overseas is another example of this. Trump doesn’t have the proper authority as President to do that.

    We must avoid the temptation to be totalitarian even if, or especially when, it benefits us.

    So here is a question that centers on a concrete example: let’s say you have children who grow up with decent educations in computer science and other technological fields of study like AI.

    Like you, they hold firm to conservative beliefs and principles. When they send their job applications and resumes out, they get nowhere in terms of being hired, due to the fact that over their lives, they have made their political philosophy known on social media such as facebook and ricochet.

    In this day and age, HR people search out such social media sites to determine the background of job applicants. (If you want to envision totalitarianism, it is rampantly well established inside the tech firms.)

    Your children never seem to get jobs inside the well paying technology firms, be they located inside Silicon Valley or Austin Texas. Would you end up feeling differently about what you just posted, if this totalitarianism, which you seem somehow to miss, affected your family in this manner?

    My uncle, who has a master’s degree in electrical engineering, once worked for a large corporation and didn’t like the way they ran their business.   

    So, he started his own small business and has made millions and millions of dollars.  

    That, I think, is the solution.  Don’t rely on the Left to write your paycheck.

     

    • #51
  22. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Theodoric of Freiberg (View Comment):

    The First Amendment speech protections apply to the federal government, not to companies or individuals.

    I’m not sure that applies when a company essentially has a monopoly on free speech, especially when that company receives certain benefits from the government.

    Most states have free speech requirements too.  I believe that Prager University just filed a lawsuit against Youtube/Google in state court.  “Attorneys for Prager said they filed the second suit at the state level on the recommendation of the federal judge in the first case.”

    Is a company allowed to bar certain groups from speaking on their platforms?  Blacks, conservatives, gays, Christians, Muslims, etc.  Only the Left-leaning groups?

    I’m more worried about that California vote harvesting scheme.

    Once the vote is corrupted there is no going back.

    • #52
  23. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    Once the vote is corrupted there is no going back.

    Yes, that’s been a big concern of mine, too.  What are we going to do?  Ask Jimmy Carter to come and oversee our American election process?  Are we going to be another third-world despotic regime in which all elections are won by a landslide for the ruling party?  Are we going to start having national holidays for government employees to march down 5th Avenue and Hollywood Blvd (I’m assuming it’s as big a thoroughfare as its famous name suggests) carrying signs for the PRI?

    • #53
  24. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    I think it is a healthy reminder that Rand Paul has survived 2 assassination attempts.

    • #54
  25. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):
    I’m more worried about that California vote harvesting scheme.

    And its new self-designated sanctuary state status.  Is there no way of expelling a State, which has surrendered its legal legitimacy, from the Union?

    • #55
  26. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Are you writing here that my understanding is wrong in this?

    Yes, anti-discrimination laws prohibit private entities from making hiring and service decisions on certain defined basis, normally membership in a protected class. Political statements are not covered by such laws.

    Maybe.  It may all depend on how creative one is.  See my #9 above.  I recall a time not that long ago when sexual orientation was not considered the equivalent of “sex” for purposes of antidiscrimination laws.  That’s changing.  Our friends on the left have been extremely good at expanding the reach of certain laws to go where they’d like.  It can take time and effort, but you have to start somewhere.

     

    • #56
  27. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Flicker (View Comment):

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):
    I’m more worried about that California vote harvesting scheme.

    And its new self-designated sanctuary state status. Is there no way of expelling a State, which has surrendered its legal legitimacy, from the Union?

    Well, the Congress could decide to prevent their senators and representatives from taking their seats.  If there was real fraud and the Republicans had guts (ha!), that would fix things quickly.

    • #57
  28. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    Maybe. It may all depend on how creative one is. See my #9 above. I recall a time not that long ago when sexual orientation was not considered the equivalent of “sex” for purposes of antidiscrimination laws. That’s changing. Our friends on the left have been extremely good at expanding the reach of certain laws to go where they’d like. It can take time and effort, but you have to start somewhere.

    In most cases, statutes have been amended to include sexual orientation.

    • #58
  29. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    Maybe. It may all depend on how creative one is. See my #9 above. I recall a time not that long ago when sexual orientation was not considered the equivalent of “sex” for purposes of antidiscrimination laws. That’s changing. Our friends on the left have been extremely good at expanding the reach of certain laws to go where they’d like. It can take time and effort, but you have to start somewhere.

    In most cases, statutes have been amended to include sexual orientation.

    I understand your point, but, for the record, those are state laws covering similar ground.  Such an amendment to federal law died in Congress, so the move began to “reinterpret” existing law.  In many cases, accepted theories are made by advocates, not born in the legislature.

    • #59
  30. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    In many cases, accepted theories are made by advocates, not born in the legislature.

    And in those cases, conservatives oppose the change on principle.

    • #60
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.