Quote of the Day: Bad Design

 

“Too much redesign has to do more with fad and fashion than with fitness and function. It is change for the sake of change. Such redesign is not only unnecessary, it is all too often also retrogressive, leading to things that work less effectively than those they were designed to replace.” – Henry Petroski

Like with Thomas Sowell, Milton Friedman, and other great thinkers, the ability to simplify knowledge and explain it to everyone is a major talent. Henry Petroski has written many such books, starting with To Engineer is Human: The Role of Failure in Successful Design. His quote above reminded me of a 1970s digital design textbook with an appendix called “The Engineer as a Dope Pusher,” which stated that just because a new technology exists, it’s usually not the best choice. The main example was the household clothes dryer, which used a spring powered mechanical timer with a dial to control drying time, rather than a fancy digital electronic interface. I still have a 1988 Maytag electric dryer with the mechanical dial, the only maintenance being a $30 heater core, with the matching washing machine needing a belt tightened. So why are simple devices becoming more complicated and less reliable?

The major cause of bad design is government interference. Our cars are more complex, with turbochargers, direct injection, and 8/9 speed transmissions to squeeze another 0.5 mile or so per gallon fleet average. Even though water is plentiful over much of the US, toilets are regulated to 1.6 gallon per flush. San Francisco is saving over 20 million gallons of water per year, but their sewers weren’t designed for such a low flow. The modern gas containers with spring-loaded nozzles actually spill more fuel than the older simple nozzle with a vent. And so on.

Another cause is the herd mentality of people. If rich people are buying expensive front-loading washing machines for the “environment,” then the middle class (and even some of the poor!) follow that example. Modern washing machines, dryers, refrigerators, and other appliances typically last six to 10 years, mostly due to poor quality parts and “Energy Star” designs that stress a smaller motor. A properly sized motor (like in my Maytag) can last 30 years or more. As with low-flush toilets, the extra water and electric costs of a top-loading washing machine are relatively minimal for most of the country.

I could go on, but you get the idea. As Pogo said:

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  1. dnewlander Inactive
    dnewlander
    @dnewlander

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Nick H (View Comment):
    Two words: Planned Obsolescence.

    Mrs. Flicker said, Everyone shops at Ikea because it’s cheap. I said, But everything is cheap quality and breaks down after a year or two and you have to buy another one. She said, Riiight.

    I guess that’s a win-win: I get a new entertainment console and Ikea gets another sale.

    What are you doing to your ikea stuff? I’ve have bookshelves and other items all over the house that are more than ten years old. In fact just last month I moved an Ikea wardrobe upstairs into my youngest sons closet. It was originally purchased for use in the kitchen of a house I moved out of in 2004, and has been arts and crafts storage since then.

    I can’t even remember the last time I had to dispose of something from IKEA because it was broken.

    IKEA stuff usually breaks when you move it a lot. Most of those fasteners really only get truly tight the first time, and if you’re disassembling and reassembling every year or so, like most college students and recent grads, you can expect a fair amount of collateral damage.

    In other words, they ace Statics, but can’t handle Dynamics.

    • #31
  2. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    What are you doing to your ikea stuff?

    Just about everything I’ve bought at Ikea was fiberboard.  Of course I haven’t been their in decades, but my sister had to replace both a sofa and a desk after the first few years.  It bends (all the bookshelves have weeped downward), disintegrates when humid, the shelves finally separate downward from their pegs, the sides bow out, the thin plastic laminate peels and all the chrome plated stuff rusts though in the first month.  But maybe it’s just bum luck.  Or maybe I just chose lower end stuff.  Or maybe everything’s just a lot better than I experienced.

    • #32
  3. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Nick H (View Comment):
    Two words: Planned Obsolescence.

    Mrs. Flicker said, Everyone shops at Ikea because it’s cheap. I said, But everything is cheap quality and breaks down after a year or two and you have to buy another one. She said, Riiight.

    I guess that’s a win-win: I get a new entertainment console and Ikea gets another sale.

    What are you doing to your ikea stuff? I’ve have bookshelves and other items all over the house that are more than ten years old. In fact just last month I moved an Ikea wardrobe upstairs into my youngest sons closet. It was originally purchased for use in the kitchen of a house I moved out of in 2004, and has been arts and crafts storage since then.

    I can’t even remember the last time I had to dispose of something from IKEA because it was broken.

    Same here.  We installed Billy bookcases to make a library out of a living room, and that was back in 2004.  They’re still fine.  We’ve had newer bookcases too, and only broke 1 because the kiddos were rather abusive with it.

    We’ve chucked out a few things because they became obsolescent, or just moved around way too much (1 such survived 3 moves, and then getting moved around the house a lot).  But the quality has been pretty good.

    • #33
  4. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Nick H (View Comment):
    Two words: Planned Obsolescence.

    Mrs. Flicker said, Everyone shops at Ikea because it’s cheap. I said, But everything is cheap quality and breaks down after a year or two and you have to buy another one. She said, Riiight.

    I guess that’s a win-win: I get a new entertainment console and Ikea gets another sale.

    What are you doing to your ikea stuff? I’ve have bookshelves and other items all over the house that are more than ten years old. In fact just last month I moved an Ikea wardrobe upstairs into my youngest sons closet. It was originally purchased for use in the kitchen of a house I moved out of in 2004, and has been arts and crafts storage since then.

    I can’t even remember the last time I had to dispose of something from IKEA because it was broken.

    Same here. We installed Billy bookcases to make a library out of a living room, and that was back in 2004. They’re still fine. We’ve had newer bookcases too, and only broke 1 because the kiddos were rather abusive with it.

    We’ve chucked out a few things because they became obsolescent, or just moved around way too much (1 such survived 3 moves, and then getting moved around the house a lot). But the quality has been pretty good.

    Billy bookcases are awesome – I’ve got at least 5 or 6 of them around the house.

    I’ve tossed a bunch of store brand collapsible bookcases from various department store/discount store type places (Shopko comes to mind) because they were going to pieces, but the Billy’s are fine.

     

     

    • #34
  5. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    dnewlander (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Nick H (View Comment):
    Two words: Planned Obsolescence.

    Mrs. Flicker said, Everyone shops at Ikea because it’s cheap. I said, But everything is cheap quality and breaks down after a year or two and you have to buy another one. She said, Riiight.

    I guess that’s a win-win: I get a new entertainment console and Ikea gets another sale.

    What are you doing to your ikea stuff? I’ve have bookshelves and other items all over the house that are more than ten years old. In fact just last month I moved an Ikea wardrobe upstairs into my youngest sons closet. It was originally purchased for use in the kitchen of a house I moved out of in 2004, and has been arts and crafts storage since then.

    I can’t even remember the last time I had to dispose of something from IKEA because it was broken.

    IKEA stuff usually breaks when you move it a lot. Most of those fasteners really only get truly tight the first time, and if you’re disassembling and reassembling every year or so, like most college students and recent grads, you can expect a fair amount of collateral damage.

    In other words, they ace Statics, but can’t handle Dynamics.

    My Ikea particle board desk did not survive a recent move from Rochester NY to near Fort Worth TX. But, it was so cheap to begin with that I’m not particularly upset.

    After the move we did get two bed platforms from Ikea that are made of real wood, and seem remarkably well engineered.

    • #35
  6. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Vectorman (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    In short, mandating lead free to reduce pollution, actually increases pollution and waste while solving a non-existent problem (lead-poisoning from people eating electronics).

    But it’s for the children…

    Electronics haven’t tasted good since the vacuum tube went out of style. 

    • #36
  7. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Vectorman: A properly sized motor (like in my Maytag) can last 30 years or more.

    And can be changed by anybody who can, say, change an oil filter. Oh. Wait. A surgeon in the UK is worried because while his med students are great test takers, they have no experience doing things with their hands and hence no gut feeling about the properties of materials.

    That mechanical timer on your dryer? It can’t connect via the IOT and report back to your electric utility about which settings you use on your dryer and when you run it. That means that while the utility can use your smart meter to tell when your electricity use is more than it’s supposed to be, the utility can’t turn your dryer down or shut it off. You will be billed extra for that privilege. For now. You are killing people by not conserving properly; this behavior will not be tolerated forever.

    You’ve got blood on your hands Vector! Or possibly lint. 

    • #37
  8. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    What are you doing to your ikea stuff?

    Just about everything I’ve bought at Ikea was fiberboard. Of course I haven’t been their in decades, but my sister had to replace both a sofa and a desk after the first few years. It bends (all the bookshelves have weeped downward), disintegrates when humid, the shelves finally separate downward from their pegs, the sides bow out, the thin plastic laminate peels and all the chrome plated stuff rusts though in the first month. But maybe it’s just bum luck. Or maybe I just chose lower end stuff. Or maybe everything’s just a lot better than I experienced.

    I knew a contractor who showed off a kitchen remodel job he had just done for a client; both were very pleased. Ikea does show very well; the client liked the solid wood doors for a particular set of Ikea cabinets, but not the cabinets themselves which were the fiberboard and foil stuff you mentioned. And a kitchen is by nature more humid than a living room. So the contractor built a set of paint grade formaldehyde free plywood cabinet cases to fit the Ikea doors. Low VOC sealer and paint, and it looked very nice, and should be holding up well.

    • #38
  9. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    for one rue the lack of user serviceable parts on modern cars. I’m no mechanical Svengali, but I like to do minor service and repairs. Changing the spark plugs on a 2004 Taurus required the disassembly of four components and a mastery of archaic yoga postures. At least that’s only required every 100K miles.

    My son, the mechanic, also laments the design of contemporary vehicles. And he says the parts seem just above junk quality. 

    • #39
  10. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    I think it was David Stove that said it is easier or more ways to make a tv worse than to make it better. I think it was part of the Columbus Argument.

    • #40
  11. Shawn Buell (Majestyk) Member
    Shawn Buell (Majestyk)
    @Majestyk

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    What are you doing to your ikea stuff? I’ve have bookshelves and other items all over the house that are more than ten years old. In fact just last month I moved an Ikea wardrobe upstairs into my youngest sons closet. It was originally purchased for use in the kitchen of a house I moved out of in 2004, and has been arts and crafts storage since then.

    I can’t even remember the last time I had to dispose of something from IKEA because it was broken.

    In my case, I invested too much of my life in building an IKEA dresser for my daughter – I glued every connection and it took an entire and extremely frustrating day to complete.

    That said, it’s a very sturdy and reasonably well-made thing.

    • #41
  12. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    for one rue the lack of user serviceable parts on modern cars. I’m no mechanical Svengali, but I like to do minor service and repairs. Changing the spark plugs on a 2004 Taurus required the disassembly of four components and a mastery of archaic yoga postures. At least that’s only required every 100K miles.

    My son, the mechanic, also laments the design of contemporary vehicles. And he says the parts seem just above junk quality.

    At least some of the lack of serviceability of component parts in a car is because the modern car is an assemblage of sub-assemblies that are designed to make final assembly easy and cheap. It is easier (and actually more reliable) for an auto manufacturer to insert into the car a complete power seat assembly than to put together springs, seat cushions, fabric coverings, electrical motors, and switches. Same for power windows, sunroofs, light fixtures, etc. A specialized supplier is likely to be able to assemble those subassemblies at a lower cost than the final auto manufacturer, and by doing so, the specialized supplier can probably make a better profit off selling subassemblies than it could selling component parts. The incentives in the manufacturing process are to design and engineer the subassembly so that it is easy for the auto manufacturer to install the subassembly into a car on the assembly line without damaging the subassembly, so components are tightly packaged and attached, and tucked deep into the interior of the subassembly. A downside is that it is harder for the user to get back down to the little component in the subassembly should that little component break.

    For a number of years I worked for a conglomerate that owned among its businesses an auto parts manufacturer that migrated up the proverbial food chain from selling electric motors for auto seats and sunroofs to selling complete seat assemblies and sunroof assemblies.

    • #42
  13. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    for one rue the lack of user serviceable parts on modern cars. I’m no mechanical Svengali, but I like to do minor service and repairs. Changing the spark plugs on a 2004 Taurus required the disassembly of four components and a mastery of archaic yoga postures. At least that’s only required every 100K miles.

    My son, the mechanic, also laments the design of contemporary vehicles. And he says the parts seem just above junk quality.

    At least some of the lack of serviceability of component parts in a car is because the modern car is an assemblage of sub-assemblies that are designed to make final assembly easy and cheap. It is easier (and actually more reliable) for an auto manufacturer to insert into the car a complete power seat assembly than to put together springs, seat cushions, fabric coverings, electrical motors, and switches. Same for power windows, sunroofs, light fixtures, etc. A specialized supplier is likely to be able to assemble those subassemblies at a lower cost than the final auto manufacturer, and by doing so, the specialized supplier can probably make a better profit off selling subassemblies than it could selling component parts. The incentives in the manufacturing process are to design and engineer the subassembly so that it is easy for the auto manufacturer to install the subassembly into a car on the assembly line without damaging the subassembly, so components are tightly packaged and attached, and tucked deep into the interior of the subassembly. A downside is that it is harder for the user to get back down to the little component in the subassembly should that little component break.

    For a number of years I worked for a conglomerate that owned among its businesses an auto parts manufacturer that migrated up the proverbial food chain from selling electric motors for auto seats and sunroofs to selling complete seat assemblies and sunroof assemblies.

    When my 2009 Sonata had about 25,000 miles on it I had an issue where the transmission made an audible “buzzing” sound when idling slowly forward or backward, as when going in or out of the garage.

    Dealership said it was a failing solenoid – but they pulled and replaced the entire transmission with a rebuilt unit.  They said the manufacturer warranty department preferred to do that than to service them in the field.

     

    • #43
  14. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    for one rue the lack of user serviceable parts on modern cars. I’m no mechanical Svengali, but I like to do minor service and repairs. Changing the spark plugs on a 2004 Taurus required the disassembly of four components and a mastery of archaic yoga postures. At least that’s only required every 100K miles.

    My son, the mechanic, also laments the design of contemporary vehicles. And he says the parts seem just above junk quality.

    At least some of the lack of serviceability of component parts in a car is because the modern car is an assemblage of sub-assemblies that are designed to make final assembly easy and cheap. It is easier (and actually more reliable) for an auto manufacturer to insert into the car a complete power seat assembly than to put together springs, seat cushions, fabric coverings, electrical motors, and switches. Same for power windows, sunroofs, light fixtures, etc. A specialized supplier is likely to be able to assemble those subassemblies at a lower cost than the final auto manufacturer, and by doing so, the specialized supplier can probably make a better profit off selling subassemblies than it could selling component parts. The incentives in the manufacturing process are to design and engineer the subassembly so that it is easy for the auto manufacturer to install the subassembly into a car on the assembly line without damaging the subassembly, so components are tightly packaged and attached, and tucked deep into the interior of the subassembly. A downside is that it is harder for the user to get back down to the little component in the subassembly should that little component break.

    For a number of years I worked for a conglomerate that owned among its businesses an auto parts manufacturer that migrated up the proverbial food chain from selling electric motors for auto seats and sunroofs to selling complete seat assemblies and sunroof assemblies.

    My best friend is a QC engineer at a Big 3 division, and so very many of the problems he has to sort out are less a function of design, than of these sub-contractors taking shortcuts when they have capacity issues.  

    • #44
  15. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    for one rue the lack of user serviceable parts on modern cars. I’m no mechanical Svengali, but I like to do minor service and repairs. Changing the spark plugs on a 2004 Taurus required the disassembly of four components and a mastery of archaic yoga postures. At least that’s only required every 100K miles.

    My son, the mechanic, also laments the design of contemporary vehicles. And he says the parts seem just above junk quality.

    At least some of the lack of serviceability of component parts in a car is because the modern car is an assemblage of sub-assemblies that are designed to make final assembly easy and cheap. It is easier (and actually more reliable) for an auto manufacturer to insert into the car a complete power seat assembly than to put together springs, seat cushions, fabric coverings, electrical motors, and switches. Same for power windows, sunroofs, light fixtures, etc. A specialized supplier is likely to be able to assemble those subassemblies at a lower cost than the final auto manufacturer, and by doing so, the specialized supplier can probably make a better profit off selling subassemblies than it could selling component parts. The incentives in the manufacturing process are to design and engineer the subassembly so that it is easy for the auto manufacturer to install the subassembly into a car on the assembly line without damaging the subassembly, so components are tightly packaged and attached, and tucked deep into the interior of the subassembly. A downside is that it is harder for the user to get back down to the little component in the subassembly should that little component break.

    For a number of years I worked for a conglomerate that owned among its businesses an auto parts manufacturer that migrated up the proverbial food chain from selling electric motors for auto seats and sunroofs to selling complete seat assemblies and sunroof assemblies.

    Flagged: Failure to Support Existing Narrative. 

    • #45
  16. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Vectorman: The major cause of bad design is government interference. Our cars are more complex, with turbochargers, direct injection, and 8/9 speed transmissions to squeeze another 0.5 mile or so per gallon fleet average. Even though water is plentiful over much of the US, toilets are regulated to 1.6 gallon per flush. San Francisco is saving over 20 million gallons of water per year, but their sewers weren’t designed for such a low flow. The modern gas containers with spring-loaded nozzles actually spill more fuel than the older simple nozzle with a vent. And so on.

    I mostly agree with this but there are some cars with direct injection and turbocharging that I would love to own, such as the street-legal version of this car.

    • #46
  17. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Vectorman: The major cause of bad design is government interference. Our cars are more complex, with turbochargers, direct injection, and 8/9 speed transmissions to squeeze another 0.5 mile or so per gallon fleet average. Even though water is plentiful over much of the US, toilets are regulated to 1.6 gallon per flush. San Francisco is saving over 20 million gallons of water per year, but their sewers weren’t designed for such a low flow. The modern gas containers with spring-loaded nozzles actually spill more fuel than the older simple nozzle with a vent. And so on.

    I mostly agree with this but there are some cars with direct injection and turbocharging that I would love to own, such as the street-legal version of this car.

    This one’s pretty good too.  Same motor too.

    • #47
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