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When the Culture War Is Fought in Your Front Yard
“God hates divorce. God loves divorced people.” Those are the words of a pastor I used to know.
I hate divorce, too. I hate, hate, hate it. For the record, my parents are married and have been for over 50 years. I have been married for 26 years as of a few days ago. My parents have had their issues, my wife and I have had ours. We were close to divorce about five years ago, but God intervened and rescued us from our arrogance. My mother’s parents were divorced when she was a toddler, her dad being a raging drunk who beat my grandmother. My wife’s parents were both married and divorced multiple times. Beyond that, divorce has never touched me in any real personal way.
Until this morning. My son, 13, just came up from his long slumber to say that his friend’s parents are getting a divorce. I guess they’ve been having trouble for some time, they’ve talked about divorce before, but my son says it’s for real this time: she has a lawyer.
Call me a girly man if you must, but I’ve got some tears in my eyes as I write this. I hate that my son has to bear some burden in order to support his friend (though I love him for doing so). I hate that his buddy has to go through this, the uncertainty, the worry that it is his fault, being torn between mom and dad.
I’m not sure what else to say other than, if you pray, perhaps you’ll pray for Isaac and his family.
Published in General
Ok, I will just say one more thing, and then I will go away. “Conservative values” covers a wide variety of issues. Are you saying (you are surely not saying this, are you?) that divorced people have no place speaking out for the right to own a gun? That they have no place objecting to abortion? It seems as though you are telling anyone who is divorced, and possibly a lot of people who aren’t that they should just shut up and go away, and that they have no place in the conservative movement. Do you really think this is a good idea? Lots of military guys are divorced. Should they shut up and go away too? Are you kidding?
I am going to agree with both of you
One. I’m going to vote for the person who is going to enact the best policies, abusive divorce or no.
Two. The liberal family that stays together is likely doing more for the country than the conservative who mistreats his family.
I would like to note that you are the one using the term “shut up and go away”, not me. So don’t ask me if I’m kidding about something you said.
Please refer to the first two sentences in my original post.
You got my point exactly, sir. Thanks!
A whole lot of the time, a majority in my practice, the divorce is one party only wanting it. If the other doesn’t want to be married, you can’t keep them married to you.
At the time of my husband’s death three years ago, we had been married for 48 years. Lord knows we had our ups and downs over those years, and I considered divorce a couple of times when I learned of his philandering. That said, we had children to consider as they worshiped their father. He loved our family unit and me, in his own way, so when he begged me to stay in our marriage, I chose the family unit. Looking back, except for those two serious infractions on his part, we had a good life. When he died, he did so lovingly cared for by his wife and children. I firmly believe that all too many people today get divorced without taking into account the horrible effects it has on their children. There are exceptions of course and they include one of the parents is addicted to alcohol, drugs, gambles away the grocery money, is a wife or husband beater or is a criminal.
I had an aunt who was married four times. She was a beautiful woman who loved being adored by the many men in her life. At the end of her life as her beauty faded into old age, she said to me that she wished she had stayed with her first husband, the father of her children. Why? Because, she said, “I always took my personal problems with me into each new relationship and never gave a thought to the insecurities my children had to grow up with.”
You said that people who are divorced shouldn’t bother talking to you about their conservative values. But apparently, you are ok with divorced people running for office? I am really not sure what you are saying: it’s ok for divorced politicians to talk about their beliefs and you may even vote for them, but you aren’t interested in what divorced civilians think? Could you clarify?
Sorry if I am being pedantic here, but very few people have totally pristine conservative beliefs, and those few who do are usually not pristine themselves. I don’t think we should be saying “Don’t bother talking to me” to anyone about anything, and that goes double and triple towards those who may be allies on some issues.
It’s our mommy when we need stuff and our daddy when we get out of line…heck, Uncle Sam is transgender!
Maybe I’ve missed something here, but I don’t think @Spin meant for this to be about Dems vs GOP but about family values in general and how divorce is affecting his own child because of his friend. Families of all political stripes have experienced divorce. If none of you has a liberal friend who has had a long and happy marriage, you’ve led a very sheltered existence. There are statistics out there that indicate divorce is more apt to occur because of money problems than political identification. Someone mentioned the TV shows like The Waltons and Little House on the Prairie were good examples and probably made positive contributions to family values. Another good one was The Cosby Show. It’s true that today’s shows are more apt to show violence rather than sweet and intact families. Unfortunately, it seems the majority of the people who produce today’s tv and movie entertainment are focused on capturing the attention of the millennials who are more inclined toward action instead of character development. Meanwhile, we can all conjecture about what would make the world a safer place for encouraging family unity, but Spin is still confronting how to help his son deal with the anguish his friend is going through.
So,
a: what I said was “Don’t talk to me about conservative values if you cannot get the most basic of family values right.” And I hold to that. It starts with the family. Don’t preach conservative values if you can’t get the basics right. You get your house in order, and then come talk to me about conservative values.
b: I’m ok with divorce people doing a lot of things, including running for office. Let me tell you story about the guy who wrote what I quoted at the beginning of my post. This fellow ran a 2,000 member church. He had a hand in transforming the county I live in. Then, he cheated on his wife. And he kept it hidden for a long time, and fell in to the darkness of maintaining a lie. Until he couldn’t anymore, and he resigned, and went on to live a dark life for several years. Then he started to put his life together again and was able to speak openly about the life he lived. He said “I make no excuses. The failure of my marriage was my fault, and mine alone. Yes, my wife did things she shouldn’t have. But I know if I’d done what I was supposed to do, we could have saved our marriage. But my ego wouldn’t allow it.” I knew this guy before and after his divorce, and he was a different man after. I’m sad to say a few years ago he died of a heart attack. But not before reconciling to a lot of people he’d let down. Why do I tell you that story? Because I wouldn’t have given a rip what he’d had to say in the middle. If he’d have talked about conservative values to me during that time when he was still out doing his thing, I’d have said “Dude, get your house in order before you say anything to me about conservative values.” Once he did get his house in order, then I think he has a lot to say. And he did. He spoke at length about the damage he did to his wife and kids, and to his church family.
That’s correct. Thank you!
Man, that’s really sad to think about, but here is a woman who learned the hard way. We should all listen to her!
By the way, you @spin may now have a new role to help show your son’s friend what a man dedicated to loving his wife does.
Your son will learn and grow in supporting his friend.
Ensure your house is a place he is welcome no matter what his parents do.
This is great advice.
By the way, I understand that couples who consider divorce but don’t carry through report happier outcomes a few years later than those who do carry through with the divorce.
Focus on the Family runs a Hope Restored program that has a very high success rate in helping couples on the brink of divorce.
Pretty sad to look back on your life with a major regret like that. I cried when she told me as I knew the horrid stories my cousins had told me about their various “uncles” and stepfathers. She died alone.
And I can totally understand why you would feel that way, but what about his wife? Can she speak about her beliefs, say, about guns, or is she cast into the darkness too? What about cases where it isn’t clear who is primarily at fault? What about people who lie? I just think your attitude towards divorced people could end up hurting many innocent people. Kind of like, it’s better for 100 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to be in jail.
Again, go back and read the very first line of the OP. And then read it again. And maybe a third time.
I did read it. It is very nice of you to say that God loves divorced people. It is God’s job to judge divorced people, not our job, because unlike God, we usually have no idea what is going on. Your method punishes the innocent along with the guilty: talking about love while you are punishing an innocent party doesn’t make it ok.
I’ve done a lot of stupid things in my life, but initiating a divorce after 32 years was the stupidest.
Judithann, you seem intent on doing two things, and I’ll ask you to stop:
Taking my post out of context and down a road no one else is taking it.
Putting words in my mouth.
I actually liked this post, and I was totally with you until a few of the comments you made: you have made some incredibly broad and vague comments. I have asked you at least once to clarify, but you haven’t: you just keep accusing me of putting words in your mouth, and when I ask you to explain exactly what you meant, you don’t. I am leaving now, for real, and you are right: the people on this thread don’t seem interested, but it is possible that some of the comments on this thread drove away divorced people.
This post is on the main feed: there are a lot more people than just those commenting who are reading it, and while I know that divorce is a tragedy to be avoided at almost any cost, I am not at all sure about some of the incredibly vague and broad statements you are making, and I just want that down for the record. That is all. Goodbye :)
Part of the reluctance to support Donald Trump in 2016 was due to Trump’s libertine lifestyle with respect to women. Trump bragged about having affairs with married women in one of his books.
But it’s hard to be finicky in the voting booth when the Left’s agenda is as worrisome as it is.
Which really has nothing to do with my post. Did you think my post was somehow a screed against Denver Tango and his lack of marital fidelity? The swamp requires a Swamp Creature…I’m talking about families and homes…
Extreme cases should not be what we consult to decide these questions. It makes life a little too convenient and decisionmaking too easy if we give examples of (let’s say)
–a 35 year old man whose marriage at 22 only lasted a year but is otherwise a paragon of good character and citizenship; or
–a 35 year old man with no blemishes on his personal life who is a foaming-at-the-mouth apostle of the violent left.
Most people are more likely to encounter shades and blends, and they’re often tough.
Gary, my point is simply that we do great wonders for our culture if we keep our families intact. Regardless of our particular political view.
Yep.
Someone else brought up the issue of whether it is acceptable for someone to make articulate speeches about conservative values while cheating on ones wife. I don’t remember who made the comment. But someone brought up the issue of a choice at the voting booth between a conservative who has divorced his wife and a Leftist who is still in his marriage. Or thereabouts.
I didn’t realize that was considered a threadjack.
We should also add into the equation as to whether there are children involved in the marriage/divorce.
If you have a husband and wife and they are miserable with each other and they don’t have children, maybe they should get divorced and have children with people they are compatible with.
Ok. I just want to make sure no one thinks I’m saying this applies to our elected officials. Frankly, I think our culture is in our hands, not theirs. And if it’s rescued, it will be rescued in spite of them, not because of them.