Important Theological Question of the Day

 

I don’t care how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I just want to know what gender (or, preferably, sex) they are!

As I was putting up my nativity set last night and placing the angel overlooking the crib, it occurred to me how feminized angels appear in our popular art. It’s always bothered me that the angel in my set has huge hands(!) and is wearing a dress. And a shiny stole, and, well, lookie there! She/he/it appears to have bosoms!

I was under the impression angels are male. Certainly, all the named ones are (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael). What’s up with all the pretty gal angels adorning our art?

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  1. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Eridemus (View Comment):

    Roma Downey and the white male and black female (older) actors added their portrayals to the mix in “Touched by an Angel” although it was criticized as not very biblical.

    Meanwhile there was this in the “Son of God” episode of the “Bible” series. A male Gabriel for sure, and scruffy from battle, not all shined up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNPhCKch4jI

    Yeah, wow, not my ideal. Gabriel is the messenger. If any angel is scuffed up from battle, it should be Michael. And Mary was “troubled” by Gabriel’s greeting, not breathless with fear… And Joseph was a lot older than that actor…

    I know. Picky, picky. 

    • #61
  2. Nanda Panjandrum Member
    Nanda Panjandrum
    @

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Eridemus (View Comment):

    Roma Downey and the white male and black female (older) actors added their portrayals to the mix in “Touched by an Angel” although it was criticized as not very biblical.

    Meanwhile there was this in the “Son of God” episode of the “Bible” series. A male Gabriel for sure, and scruffy from battle, not all shined up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNPhCKch4jI

    Yeah, wow, not my ideal. Gabriel is the messenger. If any angel is scuffed up from battle, it should be Michael. And Mary was “troubled” by Gabriel’s greeting, not breathless with fear… And Joseph was a lot older than that actor…

    I know. Picky, picky.

    Joseph being described as appreciably older than Mary (to emphasize that she remained a virgin) gives him incredibly short shrift…Picky, picky, picky. :-)

    • #62
  3. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Nanda Panjandrum (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Eridemus (View Comment):

    Roma Downey and the white male and black female (older) actors added their portrayals to the mix in “Touched by an Angel” although it was criticized as not very biblical.

    Meanwhile there was this in the “Son of God” episode of the “Bible” series. A male Gabriel for sure, and scruffy from battle, not all shined up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNPhCKch4jI

    Yeah, wow, not my ideal. Gabriel is the messenger. If any angel is scuffed up from battle, it should be Michael. And Mary was “troubled” by Gabriel’s greeting, not breathless with fear… And Joseph was a lot older than that actor…

    I know. Picky, picky.

    Joseph being described as appreciably older than Mary (to emphasize that she remained a virgin) gives him incredibly short shrift…Picky, picky, picky. :-)

    I’ve never thought he was so old he didn’t sacrifice his sexual desires in holy chastity. Not what I meant. Simply that he was a mature man, not a recently whiskered teenager. And it seems he died considerably before Mary, which would seem to confirm a significant age difference.

    • #63
  4. Nanda Panjandrum Member
    Nanda Panjandrum
    @

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Nanda Panjandrum (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Eridemus (View Comment):

    Roma Downey and the white male and black female (older) actors added their portrayals to the mix in “Touched by an Angel” although it was criticized as not very biblical.

    Meanwhile there was this in the “Son of God” episode of the “Bible” series. A male Gabriel for sure, and scruffy from battle, not all shined up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNPhCKch4jI

    Yeah, wow, not my ideal. Gabriel is the messenger. If any angel is scuffed up from battle, it should be Michael. And Mary was “troubled” by Gabriel’s greeting, not breathless with fear… And Joseph was a lot older than that actor…

    I know. Picky, picky.

    Joseph being described as appreciably older than Mary (to emphasize that she remained a virgin) gives him incredibly short shrift…Picky, picky, picky. :-)

    I’ve never thought he was so old he didn’t sacrifice his sexual desires in holy chastity. Not what I meant. Simply that he was a mature man, not a recently whiskered teenager. And it seems he died considerably before Mary, which would seem to confirm a significant age difference.

    Fair enough…Marjorie Holmes’ Two From Galilee did a lot to overcome heavy-handed art, etc. that I’d experienced by my late teens. :-) Joseph deserves more credit than he often gets, just sayin’.

    • #64
  5. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Nanda Panjandrum (View Comment):
    Joseph deserves more credit than he often gets, just sayin’.

    I agree. Such a holy and blessed man deserves more credit and attention. We need to hold him up as a model husband and (adoptive) father — a self-sacrificing provider and protector. 

    Blessed St. Joseph, pray for us and especially our men.

    • #65
  6. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Nanda Panjandrum (View Comment):
    Joseph deserves more credit than he often gets, just sayin’.

    I agree. Such a holy and blessed man deserves more credit and attention. We need to hold him up as a model husband and (adoptive) father — a self-sacrificing provider and protector.

    Blessed St. Joseph, pray for us and especially our men.

    My favorite part of the movie The Nativity Story (2006) is the movie’s take on the development of Joseph as he and Mary are trekking to Bethlehem. 

    • #66
  7. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Nanda Panjandrum (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Nanda Panjandrum (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Eridemus (View Comment):

    Roma Downey and the white male and black female (older) actors added their portrayals to the mix in “Touched by an Angel” although it was criticized as not very biblical.

    Meanwhile there was this in the “Son of God” episode of the “Bible” series. A male Gabriel for sure, and scruffy from battle, not all shined up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNPhCKch4jI

    Yeah, wow, not my ideal. Gabriel is the messenger. If any angel is scuffed up from battle, it should be Michael. And Mary was “troubled” by Gabriel’s greeting, not breathless with fear… And Joseph was a lot older than that actor…

    I know. Picky, picky.

    Joseph being described as appreciably older than Mary (to emphasize that she remained a virgin) gives him incredibly short shrift…Picky, picky, picky. :-)

    I’ve never thought he was so old he didn’t sacrifice his sexual desires in holy chastity. Not what I meant. Simply that he was a mature man, not a recently whiskered teenager. And it seems he died considerably before Mary, which would seem to confirm a significant age difference.

    Fair enough…Marjorie Holmes’ Two From Galilee did a lot to overcome heavy-handed art, etc. that I’d experienced by my late teens. :-) Joseph deserves more credit than he often gets, just sayin’.

    Absolutely. Mary gets visited by an angel. Joseph gets a dream of an angel, who basically tells him “Dude, you gotta roll with this. Man up.”

    • #67
  8. Nanda Panjandrum Member
    Nanda Panjandrum
    @

    Percival (View Comment):
    Absolutely. Mary gets visited by an angel. Joseph gets a dream of an angel, who basically tells him “Dude, you gotta roll with this. Man up.”

    To which he responds immediately, fully, and unreservedly. Done and done.

    • #68
  9. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    Percival (View Comment):

    Nanda Panjandrum (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Nanda Panjandrum (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Eridemus (View Comment):

    Roma Downey and the white male and black female (older) actors added their portrayals to the mix in “Touched by an Angel” although it was criticized as not very biblical.

    Meanwhile there was this in the “Son of God” episode of the “Bible” series. A male Gabriel for sure, and scruffy from battle, not all shined up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNPhCKch4jI

    Yeah, wow, not my ideal. Gabriel is the messenger. If any angel is scuffed up from battle, it should be Michael. And Mary was “troubled” by Gabriel’s greeting, not breathless with fear… And Joseph was a lot older than that actor…

    I know. Picky, picky.

    Joseph being described as appreciably older than Mary (to emphasize that she remained a virgin) gives him incredibly short shrift…Picky, picky, picky. :-)

    I’ve never thought he was so old he didn’t sacrifice his sexual desires in holy chastity. Not what I meant. Simply that he was a mature man, not a recently whiskered teenager. And it seems he died considerably before Mary, which would seem to confirm a significant age difference.

    Fair enough…Marjorie Holmes’ Two From Galilee did a lot to overcome heavy-handed art, etc. that I’d experienced by my late teens. :-) Joseph deserves more credit than he often gets, just sayin’.

    Absolutely. Mary gets visited by an angel. Joseph gets a dream of an angel, who basically tells him “Dude, you gotta roll with this. Man up.”

    • #69
  10. Ray Kujawa Coolidge
    Ray Kujawa
    @RayKujawa

    All angels are Alpha-male. They can get away with the occasional kilt or nightshirt. The presence of bosoms in renderings is uneducated artistic license. I wouldn’t give it any credence that the artist had any first-hand knowledge to the contrary. I wouldn’t give much credence either to a priest on such matters these days, unless you were confident of his orientation. A lot of activism going around in the church these days. I’m sure you could get a good answer from Michael Voris, though.

    • #70
  11. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):

    All angels are Alpha-male. They can get away with the occasional kilt or nightshirt. The presence of bosoms in renderings is uneducated artistic license. I wouldn’t give it any credence that the artist had any first-hand knowledge to the contrary. I wouldn’t give much credence either to a priest on such matters these days, unless you were confident of his orientation. A lot of activism going around in the church these days. I’m sure you could get a good answer from Michael Voris, though.

    Only the vain angels would visit an artist and they all chose Option B. 

    • #71
  12. Kevin Schulte Member
    Kevin Schulte
    @KevinSchulte

    TBA (View Comment):

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):

    All angels are Alpha-male. They can get away with the occasional kilt or nightshirt. The presence of bosoms in renderings is uneducated artistic license. I wouldn’t give it any credence that the artist had any first-hand knowledge to the contrary. I wouldn’t give much credence either to a priest on such matters these days, unless you were confident of his orientation. A lot of activism going around in the church these days. I’m sure you could get a good answer from Michael Voris, though.

    Only the vain angels would visit an artist and they all chose Option B.

    Vain angels are called demons, not appropriate for my tree even if masculine. ;)

    • #72
  13. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    • #73
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