How Can We Teach That the Fire Is Hot?

 

George Orwell said, “So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don’t even know that the fire is hot.” The realist in me would add that this is why the left-wing control of our educational systems, media, and entertainment industry is so catastrophic. The conspiracy theorist in me would add that this is why the left wing places so much emphasis on controlling our educational systems, media, and entertainment industry.

Regardless, socialism seems to be rapidly gaining popularity here in the US, largely among people who seem to have absolutely no idea that the fire is hot. They appear unaware that the 20th century even happened, much less why. I would argue that this represents clear evidence that our educational systems, media, and entertainment industry are in fine shape – from a left-wing perspective, it’s working. Anyway, this brings up a few questions in my mind:

  1. How is possible for anyone to have a favorable view of socialism after our experiences over the past 150 years?
  2. How does one attempt to educate someone capable of such remarkable, apparently willful, blindness?
  3. Why is this happening now? What happened to make socialism so attractive all of a sudden?
  4. Can Democrats win American elections while being openly socialist?
  5. Is our Democrat party engaging in smart politics or self-immolation?

I’ll start by giving you my opinions, although I wrote this post because I want yours. My guesses:

  1. People can view socialism favorably only if they have no idea what it has done in the past.  So the left wing is smart to control our educational systems, etc.
  2. People who chose to believe in socialism must feel some pain from their choices – they must feel the results of socialism themselves – poverty, tyranny, or something. They need to feel the heat of the fire. You cannot explain it to them; they won’t listen.  Even first-hand experience doesn’t seem to work much of the time – the truly poor want more promises of security from their leaders and will tend to vote socialist. This is a serious problem.
  3. I have no idea why socialism is becoming so popular now. Please help.
  4. Yes – I believe that socialism is popular enough that Democrats can win as Socialists. Really, they have been doing so for decades, and socialism is only becoming more popular.
  5. I think this is smart politics by Democrats. I hope I’m wrong. About all this.

So what say you? Why is socialism rapidly becoming more popular, what can be done to change people’s minds, and are the Democrats smart to pursue this path?

Thanks for your input.

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 104 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Franco (View Comment):

    So we have to ask our erstwhile friends on the left, “ do you mean socialism Venezuela or socialism Sweden?”

    Then, do you know how to keep your ideas of socialism from devolving into Venezuela or worse?

    Having recently mixed it up with some “democratic socialists” on Twitter, they definitely mean Sweden.  As for Venezuela, I was told:

    Venezuela doesn’t have a socialism problem, it has a corruption problem.

    Other comments seemed to blame us for Venezuela’s dire situation because we imposed an oil embargo, including one who wrote:

    Try to do something where everyone benefits and the news media will start pumping out fake news about it, the CIA will sabotage it, the state dept will train and fund violent opposition protestors and congress will impose sanctions.

    • #61
  2. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Mendel (View Comment):

    From our perspective, it’s easy to lump all ideologies and forms of government to the left of Bill Clinton as “socialist”, but there’s still enough daylight between them for worthwhile discussion.

    What most (not all) modern lefties seem to want is essentially very robust social democracy – think “Sweden on steroids”. It’s easy to call that full-bore socialism, but there are still major differences to how the USSR or pre-1980 China functioned.

    I agree, I think this is a key distinction to acknowledge if we want to actually engage with and persuade the other side.

    The term “democratic socialism” seems to be a clever bit of branding intended to differentiate “good socialism” from the likes of the USSR, China, North Korea, and so forth.  It is in fact true that the Communist model as implemented by the likes of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and other such monsters always involved the “dictatorship of the proletariat,” in which the Communist Party seized absolute power, rounded up the opposition, and either had them shot or sent off to re-education camps.

    In contrast, the countries that the democratic socialists wish to emulate (Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have implemented a form of socialism while retaining multiparty democracy, free and fair elections, free speech, fair trials, and so forth.

    • #62
  3. Umbra of Nex Inactive
    Umbra of Nex
    @UmbraFractus

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    In contrast, the countries that the democratic socialists wish to emulate (Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have implemented a form of socialism while retaining multiparty democracy, free and fair elections, free speech, fair trials, and so forth.

    As well as the part today’s “Democratic Socialists” all miss, which is free markets!

    • #63
  4. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Stad (View Comment):
    The freedom to pursue happiness does not guarantee it –

    Can’t remember if it was Andrew Klavan, Ben Shapiro or Dave Sussman podcast, who said,

    “Happiness is a symptom, not a goal.”

    • #64
  5. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    a smart young woman of about 40

    How old did you say you were?

    I don’t know that I did. But I am an extraordinarily fit and virile 57. ;)

    Good for you!  To me, any woman under forty is a girl . . .

    • #65
  6. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    It’s self-confidence that gets us out of bed in the morning.

    It’s fear of poverty that gets me out of bed in the morning.

    It’s a sense of responsibility that gets me out of bed in the morning.

    It’s the joy of being alive another day that gets me out of the bed in the morning.  That, and the cats meowing to be fed . .  .

    • #66
  7. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Suspira (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Obama was (deceptively) attractive as a candidate

    I remember being impressed by his speech at the 2004 Democratic convention. If THAT guy had become president, so much would have been different.

    Same guy, different disguise . . .

    • #67
  8. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):
    In contrast, the countries that the democratic socialists wish to emulate (Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have implemented a form of socialism while retaining multiparty democracy, free and fair elections, free speech, fair trials, and so forth.

    Another thing to point out is the people in socialist countries that appear to work are a homogenized bunch.  Look at how the influx of non-assimilating Muslims in those countries is shaking up their socialist beliefs.

    • #68
  9. Umbra of Nex Inactive
    Umbra of Nex
    @UmbraFractus

    Stad (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):
    In contrast, the countries that the democratic socialists wish to emulate (Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have implemented a form of socialism while retaining multiparty democracy, free and fair elections, free speech, fair trials, and so forth.

    Another thing to point out is the people in socialist countries that appear to work are a homogenized bunch. Look at how the influx of non-assimilating Muslims in those countries is shaking up their socialist beliefs.

    The Nordic countries became rich off of capitalism, tried socialism, lost a great deal of that wealth, and are currently rolling back their welfare states because they noticed the damage socialism was doing before it was too late. The Scandinavians didn’t succeed at socialism; they survived it.

    • #69
  10. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    The freedom to pursue happiness does not guarantee it –

    Can’t remember if it was Andrew Klavan, Ben Shapiro or Dave Sussman podcast, who said

    “Happiness is a symptom, not a goal.”

    Klavan says, “Remember, we’re living in good times in this country in which the Left is unhappy.”

    But, the Left is always unhappy and must be by “virtue” of their worldview. Their goal is “equality,” which is only achieved when everyone is equally dead.

    • #70
  11. Mendel Inactive
    Mendel
    @Mendel

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    The term “democratic socialism” seems to be a clever bit of branding intended to differentiate “good socialism” from the likes of the USSR, China, North Korea, and so forth.

    In contrast, the countries that the democratic socialists wish to emulate (Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have implemented a form of socialism while retaining multiparty democracy, free and fair elections, free speech, fair trials, and so forth.

    In addition to the democracy angle, another key difference is that modern American “democratic socialists” aren’t calling for the state to nationalize the means of production. That was really the key pillar of early 20th-century Marxism.

    Sure, Bernie Sanders and his ilk would love to heavily regulate commerce and deem numerous industries common carriers (and thus subject to the same restrictions as an electric utility), but nobody on the left these days is calling for the government to simply seize Ford, Boeing, or Archers Daniel Midland.

    • #71
  12. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Mendel (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    The term “democratic socialism” seems to be a clever bit of branding intended to differentiate “good socialism” from the likes of the USSR, China, North Korea, and so forth.

    In contrast, the countries that the democratic socialists wish to emulate (Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have implemented a form of socialism while retaining multiparty democracy, free and fair elections, free speech, fair trials, and so forth.

    In addition to the democracy angle, another key difference is that modern American “democratic socialists” aren’t calling for the state to nationalize the means of production. That was really the key pillar of early 20th-century Marxism.

    Sure, Bernie Sanders and his ilk would love to heavily regulate commerce and deem numerous industries common carriers (and thus subject to the same restrictions as an electric utility), but nobody on the left these days is calling for the government to simply seize Ford, Boeing, or Archers Daniel Midland.

    So they’re economic fascists, not communists.

     

    • #72
  13. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Mendel (View Comment):
    but nobody on the left these days is calling for the government to simply seize Ford, Boeing, or Archers Daniel Midland.

    Uh… Maxine Waters wanted to seize the banks. And Obama bypassed the GM shareholders in favor of the unions. So, not “nobody.”

    • #73
  14. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Umbra of Nex (View Comment):
    The Scandinavians didn’t succeed at socialism; they survived it.

    Excellent way to put it!

    • #74
  15. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Mendel (View Comment):
    but nobody on the left these days is calling for the government to simply seize Ford, Boeing, or Archers Daniel Midland.

    Uh… Maxine Waters wanted to seize the banks. And Obama bypassed the GM shareholders in favor of the unions. So, not “nobody.”

    Did you see the article Drew linked in the PIT yesterday?  An (apparently) serious argument that the government should nationalize moviepass to provide free movie tickets across the country.

    • #75
  16. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Mendel (View Comment):
    but nobody on the left these days is calling for the government to simply seize Ford, Boeing, or Archers Daniel Midland.

    Uh… Maxine Waters wanted to seize the banks. And Obama bypassed the GM shareholders in favor of the unions. So, not “nobody.”

    Did you see the article Drew linked in the PIT yesterday? An (apparently) serious argument that the government should nationalize moviepass to provide free movie tickets across the country.

    That’s just it. All this “free” stuff means somebody gets enslaved. The Left would like you to believe it’s the “evil” corporations and the rich, but it’s really all of us. 

    Humans have preferred safe slavery over risky freedom since the Hebrews wanted to get back to the fleshpots of Egypt, if not before. 

    This is the question conservatives have the hardest time answering. How do we deal with this aspect of human nature?

    • #76
  17. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Stad (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):
    In contrast, the countries that the democratic socialists wish to emulate (Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have implemented a form of socialism while retaining multiparty democracy, free and fair elections, free speech, fair trials, and so forth.

    Another thing to point out is the people in socialist countries that appear to work are a homogenized bunch. Look at how the influx of non-assimilating Muslims in those countries is shaking up their socialist beliefs.

    I keep wanting to ask one of these fans of Nordic “socialism” what they intend to do with all the dark skinned people who aren’t descended from Northern European genetic and cultural stock?

    I have heard from some people who have allegedly studied the issue that several southern European countries have systems that, on paper, are very similar to those in the Nordic countries, but have produced very different results.

    • #77
  18. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Umbra of Nex (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):
    In contrast, the countries that the democratic socialists wish to emulate (Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have implemented a form of socialism while retaining multiparty democracy, free and fair elections, free speech, fair trials, and so forth.

    Another thing to point out is the people in socialist countries that appear to work are a homogenized bunch. Look at how the influx of non-assimilating Muslims in those countries is shaking up their socialist beliefs.

    The Nordic countries became rich off of capitalism, tried socialism, lost a great deal of that wealth, and are currently rolling back their welfare states because they noticed the damage socialism was doing before it was too late. The Scandinavians didn’t succeed at socialism; they survived it.

    I recall a guest on a Jim Pethokoukis podcast a few years ago who studied one of the Nordic systems, and identified data that showed the national character (attitudes toward work and free-loading) changed during the time of socialism. Either he or one of his sources concluded that the incentives of a “free stuff” system were so strong that 400+ years of cultural development was well on its way to being undone after only 35 years of socialism.

    • #78
  19. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    I recall a guest on a Jim Pethokoukis podcast a few years ago who studied one of the Nordic systems, and identified data that showed the national character (attitudes toward work and free-loading) changed during the time of socialism. Either he or one of his sources concluded that the incentives of a “free stuff” system were so strong that 400+ years of cultural development was well on its way to being undone after only 35 years of socialism.

    Can’t remember who it was, maybe PJ O’rourke, who said that East Germany was absolute proof that communism could never work, because in just a few years it managed to take a country full of Germans and make them poor.

     

    • #79
  20. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Did you see the article Drew linked in the PIT yesterday?

    I stay out of the PIT.  I have a feeling if I ever went there, I’d be in it 24/7 . . .

    • #80
  21. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Stad (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Did you see the article Drew linked in the PIT yesterday?

    I stay out of the PIT. I have a feeling if I ever went there, I’d be in it 24/7 . . .

    With apologies to Drew, here’s his comment in full:

    http://ricochet.com/505924/pit-14-b-chapter3-inglourious-pitsters/comment-page-1003/#comment-4231256

    MoviePass never did seem like it would be a sustainable business.

    And it wasn’t.

    But someone’s got a solution! Nationalize it!

    This was linked at Instapundit today, but you really have to read the thing to see the crazy Marxist basis therein.

    Some choice quotes:

    One of the strengths of a publicly owned MoviePass would be the scope of its appeal, the ability to elicit support from the radical leftists at Sorry To Bother You as well as the corporate fascists at Avengers: Infinity War.

    . . .

    If, for example, every registered American taxpayer (a pool of nearly 140 million taxpayers as of 2014, according to the Tax Foundation) paid the equivalent of a $120 yearly MoviePass subscription — or more fairly, if the rates were adjusted dependent on one’s tax bracket, with the 1 percent subsidizing lower income citizens — the generated tax revenue would be $16.7 billion, $5.6 billion more than the total domestic box office in 2017. That money could be redistributed to studios and theaters in accordance with attendance figures, while theaters would presumably earn more from concessions. With the excess funds, underserved communities could receive grants to erect new movie houses or, better yet, to restore abandoned theaters to their former glory.

    However implausible a public MoviePass may look politically, it’s far more sound than the private MoviePass financially. If President Trump felt so inclined, he could institute the program tomorrow, simply by reducing current military spending by a mere 2 percent. That a fractional reduction to our psychotically inflated military budget seems like an impossibility says less about the dream of a nationalized MoviePass than the nightmares our government has already nationalized: perpetual war, environmental destruction, a devaluation of the arts and, with it, human life in general. We spent an estimated $11 billion on F-35 fighter jets in 2016. Burning the money would have been a more noble expenditure.

    The need to nationalize MoviePass is part of a larger problem with the modern American economy. The business of disruptive tech is the private capitalization of services that would, in any sane society, be publicly owned and transparently regulated. MoviePass is, in this respect, no different than Facebook, Google, Airbnb, Uber, et al., corporations whose massive beneficial potentials are undone and undermined by the profit motive.

     

    • #81
  22. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Mendel (View Comment):
    Sure, Bernie Sanders and his ilk would love to heavily regulate commerce and deem numerous industries common carriers (and thus subject to the same restrictions as an electric utility), but nobody on the left these days is calling for the government to simply seize Ford, Boeing, or Archers Daniel Midland.

    No mainstream politicians, perhaps, but I wouldn’t say nobody:

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    But someone’s got a solution! Nationalize it!

    This was linked at Instapundit today, but you really have to read the thing to see the crazy Marxist basis therein.

    Some choice quotes:

    The need to nationalize MoviePass is part of a larger problem with the modern American economy. The business of disruptive tech is the private capitalization of services that would, in any sane society, be publicly owned and transparently regulated. MoviePass is, in this respect, no different than Facebook, Google, Airbnb, Uber, et al., corporations whose massive beneficial potentials are undone and undermined by the profit motive.

     

    • #82
  23. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Mendel (View Comment):
    Sure, Bernie Sanders and his ilk would love to heavily regulate commerce and deem numerous industries common carriers (and thus subject to the same restrictions as an electric utility), but nobody on the left these days is calling for the government to simply seize Ford, Boeing, or Archers Daniel Midland.

    No mainstream politicians, perhaps, but I wouldn’t say nobody:

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    But someone’s got a solution! Nationalize it!

    This was linked at Instapundit today, but you really have to read the thing to see the crazy Marxist basis therein.

    Some choice quotes:

    The need to nationalize MoviePass is part of a larger problem with the modern American economy. The business of disruptive tech is the private capitalization of services that would, in any sane society, be publicly owned and transparently regulated. MoviePass is, in this respect, no different than Facebook, Google, Airbnb, Uber, et al., corporations whose massive beneficial potentials are undone and undermined by the profit motive.

     

    My personal favorite part of that article is this phrase:  “The need [emphasis added] to nationalize MoviePass”.

     

    Because movie pass is a vital national priority or something.

    • #83
  24. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    I recall a guest on a Jim Pethokoukis podcast a few years ago who studied one of the Nordic systems, and identified data that showed the national character (attitudes toward work and free-loading) changed during the time of socialism. Either he or one of his sources concluded that the incentives of a “free stuff” system were so strong that 400+ years of cultural development was well on its way to being undone after only 35 years of socialism.

    Can’t remember who it was, maybe PJ O’rourke, who said that East Germany was absolute proof that communism could never work, because in just a few years it managed to take a country full of Germans and make them poor.

     

    Yeah, I think it was PJ.  Don’t remember the book.

    • #84
  25. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Hm.  I haven’t been to a movie in a theater since 2003.

    • #85
  26. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    There was an interesting episode of Planet Money recently called The New Socialists where they went and interviewed members of the Democratic Socialists of America to find out who they were and what they stand for.  Turns out they don’t actually have a platform; it seems they are something of a big-tent group, and I suspect if they actually did try to write a platform their already tiny group would quickly splinter into many smaller ones.  They did recently agree on these 3 top priorities:

    1. Winning “Medicare for All”
    2. Supporting workers and building stronger unions
    3. Electing Democratic Socialists to office

    However, these are just the first steps.  They spoke to one member who said “we don’t just want to improve capitalism, we ultimately want to, you know, get rid of it.”  And the National Director of the DSA gave the following analogy:

    Let’s say there’s a loaf of bread.  You’re going to keep a quarter of the bread.  Union negotiators might go to the bargaining table for a contract and say we want 50% of the bread.  Socialists would say, we want to own the bakery, and run it in our own interests.

    • #86
  27. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    There was an interesting episode of Planet Money recently called The New Socialists where they went and interviewed members of the Democratic Socialists of America to find out who they were and what they stand for. Turns out they don’t actually have a platform; it seems they are something of a big-tent group, and I suspect if they actually did try to write a platform their already tiny group would quickly splinter into many smaller ones. They did recently agree on these 3 top priorities:

    1. Winning “Medicare for All”
    2. Supporting workers and building stronger unions
    3. Electing Democratic Socialists to office

    However, these are just the first steps. They spoke to one member who said “we don’t just want to improve capitalism, we ultimately want to, you know, get rid of it.” And the National Director of the DSA gave the following analogy:

    Let’s say there’s a loaf of bread. You’re going to keep a quarter of the bread. Union negotiators might go to the bargaining table for a contract and say we want 50% of the bread. Socialists would say, we want to own the bakery, and run it in our own interests.

    I’m guessing none of these people are actually on Medicare… 

    Frighteningly foolish.

    • #87
  28. Suspira Member
    Suspira
    @Suspira

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Did you see the article Drew linked in the PIT yesterday?

    What is the PIT?

    • #88
  29. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Suspira (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    Did you see the article Drew linked in the PIT yesterday?

    What is the PIT?

    Something I stay away from.

    • #89
  30. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    I’m guessing none of these people are actually on Medicare… 

    Well, the aforementioned National Director has been a member of the DSA “since college in the 2000’s,” so I’m guessing not.

    Also, “Medicare for All” is just an incremental step towards their end goal of replicating the British National Health System.

    • #90
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.