The Establishment Group Monkey Dance

 

I am, sometimes, stymied at the establishment’s obdurate opposition to President Trump. Hey, the dude wasn’t my first choice for the Republican nominee, either. But Trump won the nomination, won the general election, and kept a no-kidding corrupt, scofflaw, sac of pulsating sociopathy and her machine out of the White House. So, I’m happy.

The reaction of the establishment, though, has been a little disconcerting. Logic, rational thought, and critical thinking have been thrown out the window. Not only have I been dismayed at the reaction to Trump’s election by people I’ve never met, but I read and thought highly of, for analysis and principle-based opinion, but by people that I know. People that took a different path than me and pursued Ph.D.s, wrote books, became experts in their fields. Many of these people have unyielding, uncompromising opposition to Trump, whatever he may do or say.

Then, re-reading a favorite book, I stumbled over — not the answer, but a partial answer. I was seeing a Group Monkey Dance.

I’m a fan of self-defense and violence expert Rory Miller. He spent 15-plus years as a corrections officer, where he experienced at least one fight per day, every day, for 15 years. Plus, he’s an old-school jujitsu expert. His book Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected is outstanding. In this work, he breaks down and explains the different dimensions of social and predatory violence.

Miller defines four types of social violence: The Monkey Dance, the Group Monkey Dance, the Educational Beat-Down, and the Status-Seeking Show. I see a parallel between the reactions of the establishment and the Group Monkey Dance.

The Group Monkey Dance (GMD) is a show of group solidarity. There are two levels, at least. In the lowest level an outsider is discouraged from interfering with group business–it is a way of establishing territory.

Families are tight-knit groups. Domestic violence incidents are acts within the group. Sometimes, when the police intervene, both parties turn on them. Even though one was a victim just moments before and in fear for her life, husband and wife, attacker and victim, often band together to drive away the outsiders.

This is behavior that is familiar in chimps and baboons–your tribe will band together to drive away or scare off members of another tripe or a predator. If you don’t play, you loyalty to the group might be questioned.

In the higher level of GMD the victim is sometimes an outsider but often an insider who is perceived in some way to have betrayed the group. The group bands together in an orgy of violence, possibly beating, burning and cutting on the victim. It is literally a contest to show your loyalty by how much damage you can do to the outsider. Some of the most brutal murders, lynchings and war atrocities are examples of the Group Monkey Dance.

Most GMDs occur when an outsider is within the threat-group’s territory. There is an exception. You may remember the wildings in Central Park or the roving band of young men randomly beating people in Seattle. This pack behavior follows a similar dynamic and serves the same purpose as any other GMD–it strengthens bonds within the group. Causing fear in others (and fear is power) is just a by-product.

In earlier societies, this bonding through violence was ensured by hunting large game animals.

The people that are characterizing Trump supporters as tribalists look a lot like a tribe.

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  1. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    I bet this will own those dancin’ monkeys!

    Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf?  When Trump is constantly criticized over trivialities and BS, legitimate criticisms are ignored.  The monkeys* dancing in a circle around Trump might very well have hit him with poo this time, but most of it has landed on themselves.

    *I confess I initially misspelled ‘monkeys’, and bow my head in shame.

    • #31
  2. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    If someone was against trade wars from 1982 to 2015, and then remained against trade wars following President Trump’s rise, does that make them a stupid dancin’ monkey of the establishment? Or does that make them a person with principle? It’s OK to say that a person is a wrong, but to lazily shoo away all criticism with childish cries of “The Establishment!” is something that Ricochet members should be above (especially now, in 2018…for God’s sake).

    @tommybdeepv, if there was anything in the post that made you construe my meaning to be that I find fault with individuals who have been ideologically consistent, then I failed you.  I’m sorry.

    I’m talking here about the nominal conservatives/Republicans who have yammered on for years about lowering taxes, foiling illegal immigration, deregulating, shrinking government, et. al., and then are unable to support any single thing POTUS does because…Group Monkey Dance.

    Catching up on the comments this evening after work, I see that J. Ruben was mentioned.  You could add to that list Will/Podhoretz/Kristol/Flake and on.  So, you cats will turn your noses up at the good being accomplished because of what?  Why?  Group Monkey Dance is a partial explanation for that.

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah.  So you’re yet young.  Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    • #32
  3. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Status is the prime motivator of human behavior individually and as a group. DJT is the biggest threat the establishment has ever faced to the status quo. The GMD makes perfect sense in that light. He must be destroyed. It’s existential.

    I don’t think they fully comprehend the fire they’re playing with, though. The Normals don’t want to go back.

    Yes.  I think Boss Mongo called it 100 percent correctly. But I also wish people on our side would understand the importance of status when the topic turns to what is sometimes called “income inequality.”   I don’t see us doing an Establishment Group Monkey Dance on that topic, but there seems to be a determined attempt in some quarters to not understand the importance of status.  There are others who do understand it.  I’m not going to try to sort them out here.   

    • #33
  4. TheSockMonkey Inactive
    TheSockMonkey
    @TheSockMonkey

    I totally loved Group Monkey Dance the first couple of times they played Coachella, but I am, like, so over them now.

    • #34
  5. tommybdeepv Inactive
    tommybdeepv
    @tommybdeepv

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    • #35
  6. tommybdeepv Inactive
    tommybdeepv
    @tommybdeepv

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    I’m talking here about the nominal conservatives/Republicans who have yammered on for years about lowering taxes, foiling illegal immigration, deregulating, shrinking government, et. al., and then are unable to support any single thing POTUS does because…Group Monkey Dance.

    Catching up on the comments this evening after work, I see that J. Ruben was mentioned. You could add to that list Will/Podhoretz/Kristol/Flake and on. So, you cats will turn your noses up at the good being accomplished because of what? Why? Group Monkey Dance is a partial explanation for that.

    This is also simply Fake News. John Podhoretz, for example, has voiced support for Trump’s moving the Israeli Embassy to Jerusalem, his Supreme Court nominations, and the ongoing deregulation efforts. None of this will matter to you and the other monkeys clapping helplessly in the streets for their dear leader.

    • #36
  7. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    English. Do you speak it?

    • #37
  8. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    English. Do you speak it?

    Mike is waxing poetic. Betcha didn’t know you could wax a poetic, did you? Make sure you wash it first, and use a high-quality wax.

    • #38
  9. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    Percival (View Comment):

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    English. Do you speak it?

    Mike is waxing poetic. Betcha didn’t know you could wax a poetic, did you? Make sure you wash it first, and use a high-quality wax.

    And then enjoy a Royale with Cheese. 🍔 

    • #39
  10. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    English. Do you speak it?

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    If someone was against trade wars from 1982 to 2015, and then remained against trade wars following President Trump’s rise, does that make them a stupid dancin’ monkey of the establishment? Or does that make them a person with principle? It’s OK to say that a person is a wrong, but to lazily shoo away all criticism with childish cries of “The Establishment!” is something that Ricochet members should be above (especially now, in 2018…for God’s sake).

    @tommybdeepv, if there was anything in the post that made you construe my meaning to be that I find fault with individuals who have been ideologically consistent, then I failed you. I’m sorry.

    I’m talking here about the nominal conservatives/Republicans who have yammered on for years about lowering taxes, foiling illegal immigration, deregulating, shrinking government, et. al., and then are unable to support any single thing POTUS does because…Group Monkey Dance.

    Catching up on the comments this evening after work, I see that J. Ruben was mentioned. You could add to that list Will/Podhoretz/Kristol/Flake and on. So, you cats will turn your noses up at the good being accomplished because of what? Why? Group Monkey Dance is a partial explanation for that.

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    I was so much older then. I’m younger than that now.

    • #40
  11. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    English. Do you speak it?

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    If someone was against trade wars from 1982 to 2015, and then remained against trade wars following President Trump’s rise, does that make them a stupid dancin’ monkey of the establishment? Or does that make them a person with principle? It’s OK to say that a person is a wrong, but to lazily shoo away all criticism with childish cries of “The Establishment!” is something that Ricochet members should be above (especially now, in 2018…for God’s sake).

    @tommybdeepv, if there was anything in the post that made you construe my meaning to be that I find fault with individuals who have been ideologically consistent, then I failed you. I’m sorry.

    I’m talking here about the nominal conservatives/Republicans who have yammered on for years about lowering taxes, foiling illegal immigration, deregulating, shrinking government, et. al., and then are unable to support any single thing POTUS does because…Group Monkey Dance.

    Catching up on the comments this evening after work, I see that J. Ruben was mentioned. You could add to that list Will/Podhoretz/Kristol/Flake and on. So, you cats will turn your noses up at the good being accomplished because of what? Why? Group Monkey Dance is a partial explanation for that.

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    I was so much older then. I’m younger than that now.

    C’est la vie, say the old folks. Just goes to show you never can tell…

    • #41
  12. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    English. Do you speak it?

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    If someone was against trade wars from 1982 to 2015, and then remained against trade wars following President Trump’s rise, does that make them a stupid dancin’ monkey of the establishment? Or does that make them a person with principle? It’s OK to say that a person is a wrong, but to lazily shoo away all criticism with childish cries of “The Establishment!” is something that Ricochet members should be above (especially now, in 2018…for God’s sake).

    @tommybdeepv, if there was anything in the post that made you construe my meaning to be that I find fault with individuals who have been ideologically consistent, then I failed you. I’m sorry.

    I’m talking here about the nominal conservatives/Republicans who have yammered on for years about lowering taxes, foiling illegal immigration, deregulating, shrinking government, et. al., and then are unable to support any single thing POTUS does because…Group Monkey Dance.

    Catching up on the comments this evening after work, I see that J. Ruben was mentioned. You could add to that list Will/Podhoretz/Kristol/Flake and on. So, you cats will turn your noses up at the good being accomplished because of what? Why? Group Monkey Dance is a partial explanation for that.

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    I was so much older then. I’m younger than that now.

    C’est la vie, say the old folks. Just goes to show you never can tell…

    At one of his recent appearances, [Mel] Brooks asked for questions from the audience. An urgent inquiry went as follows: “What do you wear: Briefs or boxer shorts?”

    “Depends.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/07/portrait-of-an-artist-as-an-old-man-mel-brooks-in-his-90s/564683/

    • #42
  13. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    English. Do you speak it?

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    If someone was against trade wars from 1982 to 2015, and then remained against trade wars following President Trump’s rise, does that make them a stupid dancin’ monkey of the establishment? Or does that make them a person with principle? It’s OK to say that a person is a wrong, but to lazily shoo away all criticism with childish cries of “The Establishment!” is something that Ricochet members should be above (especially now, in 2018…for God’s sake).

    @tommybdeepv, if there was anything in the post that made you construe my meaning to be that I find fault with individuals who have been ideologically consistent, then I failed you. I’m sorry.

    I’m talking here about the nominal conservatives/Republicans who have yammered on for years about lowering taxes, foiling illegal immigration, deregulating, shrinking government, et. al., and then are unable to support any single thing POTUS does because…Group Monkey Dance.

    Catching up on the comments this evening after work, I see that J. Ruben was mentioned. You could add to that list Will/Podhoretz/Kristol/Flake and on. So, you cats will turn your noses up at the good being accomplished because of what? Why? Group Monkey Dance is a partial explanation for that.

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    I was so much older then. I’m younger than that now.

    C’est la vie, say the old folks. Just goes to show you never can tell…

    At one of his recent appearances, [Mel] Brooks asked for questions from the audience. An urgent inquiry went as follows: “What do you wear: Briefs or boxer shorts?”

    “Depends.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/07/portrait-of-an-artist-as-an-old-man-mel-brooks-in-his-90s/564683/

    That’s a years old Bob Dole joke.

    • #43
  14. tommybdeepv Inactive
    tommybdeepv
    @tommybdeepv

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    tommybdeepv (View Comment):
    I was a sophomore in high school over 12 years ago but those days ring awfully familiar after reading a post like this.

    Ah. So you’re yet young. Don’t worry, after some more years learning and growing and striving, you’ll develop a better benchmark than high school.

    “So you’re yet young.” What language is this?

    English. Do you speak it?

    Almost as good of a comeback as Trump’s “Jonah Goldberg doesn’t know how to buy pants.”

    • #44
  15. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Percival (View Comment):
    Mike is waxing poetic. Betcha didn’t know you could wax a poetic, did you? Make sure you wash it first, and use a high-quality wax.

    Hey, now, that’s cruel and unusual punishment.

    • #45
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