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No, We Are Not All Clintons Now
@michaelgraham wrote the following in a recent post titled We Are All Clintons Now:
For years, my conservative friends and I have mocked Clinton Democrats for their defenses of Bill and Hillary. We reminded them how they pretended they didn’t know what really happened, how they pretended Clinton was innocent. How these “truth to power” feminists empowered a guy who treated women — including his wife — like crap. “What shameless hypocrites!” we cried. “What partisan fools! What stupid-on-purpose stooges!”
Now, a whole lot of Republicans are doing the same thing.
I think “we” are being awfully hard on ourselves. I’ve never seen complete purity in any political movement. Why start now?
Yes, we have a foul-mouthed philanderer in the White House. Not exactly a new thing.
Many of his supporters aren’t entirely objective. Again, not new.
So is Trump just as corrupt as Bill and Hillary?
The Clintons are in a class all by themselves. President Clinton got impeached, not because of his affair, but because of actual crimes committed while in office. Not just a one-time case of perjury, but suborning perjury and other types of obstruction. Clinton is also suspected of other crimes not included in the impeachment.
There are four broad categories of corruption: Personal (having affairs, etc.), Financial (crooked deals or politics for personal gain), Political (cheating in an election, retaliating against opponents) and Policy (knowingly doing things that are harmful to the country, lying about policies and their effects.) The Clintons are champions in all four categories. Obama holds his own in two of the categories, political and policy.
So, what about Trump?
He’s guilty in the personal category and has admitted (bragged about) it.
In the financial area we know Trump hasn’t been entirely pure (mob-connected cement contractors) but he has been so conspicuous for the past 40 years that he can’t have gotten away with much. To become a billionaire in the private sector, people have to trust you. Yes, people got burned during Trump’s bankruptcy, but so did Trump. Trump’s worse moments have been very public, and people have been willing to invest in him even after they happened. People who invest at that level aren’t stupid. Trump made his money building real buildings that people live and work in, and producing a television show that people watched.
In the political category, Trump is the victim of corruption — not the perpetrator.
In the policy area, Trump has been the most honest President since Ronald Reagan. I think his protectionism is harmful, but he sincerely believes in it — and campaigned on it.
Let’s look at what Trump has not done:
- Invade the home of a law-abiding family to send a child to Cuba.
- Give military secrets to China in exchange for campaign contributions.
- “Accidentally” acquire the FBI files of all House members of the opposing party.
- Launch a nationwide effort using his party, the media and the entire entertainment industry to destroy the reputations of his female accusers.
- Get involved in a land deal, where others went to jail to protect him.
- Ignore opportunities to capture or kill a dangerous terrorist leader.
- Leave an embassy exposed to attack, and refuse to defend it when the attack came.
- Lie to the families of people who lost their loved ones in military conflict.
- Use the IRS to attack his political opponents.
- Create a large “charitable” foundation whose donors coincidentally got favorable treatment from the State Department.
The list is getting long, so I’ll stop at 10.
The Clintons are unique. You’re not a hypocrite if you support Trump while opposing the Clintons.
Published in Politics
Or, it’s different this time because we understand that the country had that debate, and the “character matters” side lost.
For the other side to now get their hair on fire about character is the hypocrisy.
Sure.
You’re right. This particular event indicates that the Clintons came into office planning to be crooked. It wasn’t the pressures of the office that made them crooked.
At the time is was surprising how easily they found people in the FBI willing to help them. Not so surprising any more.
You were more prescient than I was. I voted for Cruz.
In some ways I think the real hypocrisy is imagining that those who hid their foibles better were of many degrees more moral. I wonder if that is so. Because… many Presidents were actually bad, power thirsty, immoral by Christian standards… yet they took their place in history absent those personal failings defining them professionally. I guess I just think we aren’t in darkness about who Trump is. I’m not sure that’s bad, or wholly bad.
There is some hypocrisy in making choices daily, almost no choice is pure.
In 2016, there was no moral choice… some moral people chose one bad choice– most moral people chose Trump…
I think now, he was the most moral choice available. You can’t go back and make someone else President… it didn’t happen.
If Hillary had won, we would never been able to fix the FBI. I don’t know if we can now, but at least we can expose the problem which will allow a clearer sense of what is happening in Washington DC and the media.
Plus, the media/Democrat opposition to Trump is merely a matter of degree. Whatever Republican won, would be tarred and feathered with some bad thing they thought would shut down any good he would do.
Not one Republican could have survived this onslaught unscathed.
There is something to wonder at that such a man can almost, maybe successfully, stymie this great cabal of corruption.
Although, there is still the possibility he will blow us all up and this is the end of the world… but still, that possibility is also a matter of degree, it’s true of whoever leads us.
Yes, it is set up perfectly that a true tyranny could evolve. Obama tried to do it in an underhanded sneaky way… if Trump does it, at least we will know it’s coming. He doesn’t lie.
I know I know…. that is against the narrative, but… he actually projects his actions quite well even though his words are typically snake oil salesmen deceptive… it is simply not a hidden agenda. Therefore it is not a lie.
I just read an article that said some of the same targeting algorithms, from the same sources, that Trump used, or rather Steve Bannon, and that Russia used were also used by Cruz to gain his market share… So in the scheme of things it seems to me it boiled down to a regular campaign… if they all used the same tools and one guy came out on top.
It’s a new world of propaganda based misinformation salesmanship… we need tools to combat it… because it is used both for good and evil and we need to be able to tell what is true.
Bas Jr, It’s time you get over yourself.
Trump is his business dealings was not a moral man. That said, don’t even try to conflate his sins with that of Billy Jeff Clinton, a traitor, rapist and crook or that of Hillary a traitor and crook. So don’t try to accuse those who voted for and now support Trump as people opting for immorality. Voting for Trump was by far the moral and right choice. The alternative was treason, thievery, and unconstitutional lawlessness on a massive scale leading perhaps to the final destruction of our way of life. Trump has not governed in an immoral way. What he did in the past is past. Get over it; deal with the present.
The undermining of this presidency at this critical juncture in our history, when so many of your anti- Trump compatriots are seriously trying and far too often succeeding in their efforts to destroy this country and what it stands for, is really the immoral choice and it thoroughly disgusts me.
@Unsk, I think you meant this comment for a different post. This post is in support of Trump.
I made it clear that Trump is nowhere near as corrupt as Clinton.
This comment is for Michael Graham, the podcaster, not Bas, Jr. the OP.
This is gravelly-dry goth-chick analysis. Love it. Thanks!
But I disagree that a vote should have some moral reckoning attached. Can a person vote for the wrong candidate and be blamed for any and every failure? Er, perceived failure before we have adequate information at all. We as individuals, are most definitely at effect of the information intake valves.
Enjoyable read!
Didn’t know that. I’ll admit there is a witty style to his writing.
Which is, of course, unfortunate. Because character does matter.
Well part of Clinton’s success with the economy was just plain luck. The Baby boomers had started to be of an age where both parents had died, and then comes inherited monies and where do people put such monies if not in the stock market? So the stock market kept growing.
One thing he did do that I always gave him props for was a refusal to go to war. He told the PTB repeatedly he did not want a hot war against the people of Iraq. When a President is keeping a nation out of war, it keeps the national budget more manageable.
But the other part of his success was in the fact that the dot com momentum was continuous until right before he left office. Who would have thought that companies like “canaries-in-a-hurry.com” could go forward with an IPO and garner tens of millions of bucks overnight when their purpose was so dubious? And when the dot com bubble burst, no one blamed Clinton, so he lucked out that way too.
I didn’t read Bast Jr’s comments as stating that Trump’s failings could be conflated with Bill Clinton’s failings. Maybe we read different articles? Or maybe I ate too much for dinner.
Alan Greenspan was goosing the economy. They even got rid of the 30 year T-bond. All phony.
Well, I guess I’d say focus on the can’t-stand-Democrats-and-they-never-do-any-good-things aspect of it.
I think we’re forgetting that the person with the worst character lost the election.
No we aren’t.
TERRIFIC argument for hating the Clintons. For people who voted against Clinton by voting Trump, this is gold.
But…how does this relate to my argument that Trump supporters pretending Trump isn’t a sleazeball, the 58 percent who say he’s a “moral leader,” etc are acting exactly like Clinton’s supporters back in the day.
“Clinton sucks” is not the same as ” Trump is great.” Making the latter argument is what I don’t get. What’s wrong “Trump’s a sleazebag…but at least he’s not Hillary!”?
I get your point; people need to believe in things too much, but he isn’t very corrupt in the sense of how politicians typically are.
I’m definitely in this camp.
My position exactly.
I would harken back to what David Limbaugh said many months ago on the podcast. And I paraphrase “Yeah, I get all that. But I’ve accepted it and it’s time to move on, and take what we can get from this guy.” I think that’s where most folks are at.
I don’t know if there is a name for it, but I think there are at least some people (well, I know it to be true in the case of people I personally know and interact with who support Trump) who will not brook criticism of Trump because they feel it would invalidate their vote for the guy. This of course is silly. I didn’t vote for him, but I can still accept that he’s been better than I thought, and more over, done some genuinely good things. the reverse ought to be true and it is. My wife voted for him (and she will tell Hillary that it is in-spite of me telling her not to, though I told her no such thing), but she is willing to call out the things he does and says she doesn’t like.
I also don’t know what you call it when someone defends Trump, or at least won’t hear the criticisms, solely on the basis that most of the criticisms come from the left and the media (but I repeat myself, har har, old joke). These folks feel as though Trump gets it enough from the media so why do we need to pile on. Again, yeah, we get it. I think there are folks, too, who simply don’t believe anything the media says about Trump, whether it is true or not.
So I think that the list of folks who really don’t think Trump is a sleazeball is rather short.
My problem with your ‘argument’ is the false equivalency. Trump ain’t the Clinton Crime Syndicate. Not even close.
Where do you keep your cigars, Columbo?
I would really like to find this tribe who are saying Trump is great or some paragon of virtue. I need a guide and some sherpas for the supplies.
Here’s the issue. All ( or at least most) of our politicians are significantly less than saintly in their personal lives, which we ultimately find out whether it’s JFK, LBJ, Denny Hastert, the list is endless. So, first, there’s the matter of degree, and for a billionaire whose lived 72 years, Trump’s morality spreadsheet is fairly tame. He’s far from bankrupt.
Many voters like myself are far more concerned with political morality. You know, not lying to the American people. Or making promises they never intend to fulfill, or pretending not to understand basic facts. Or not blackmailing people, or not weaponizing the IRS and even intelligence agencies!
So the, “you can keep your doctor” Obama is sickeningly immoral. The “I promise to move the embassy to Jerusalem” lowlifes, the “read mylips no new taxes” poseurs, the “I did not have sex with that woman” finger wagging liars are despicable men to me. They failed or even defied their oath to vast numbers of people. This isn’t cheating on your wife, this is cheating on everyone! And cheating on our great nation and Constitution.
So this amazing new concept, work hard and implement what you promised, seems to be the kind of morality the people who actually suffer the consequences of these corrupt politicians prefer. Thank you very much. We want someone who can be a warrior knowing he will be severely attacked criticized and wrongly accused of nearly every possible offense known to man. Trump is holding up spectacularly and he’s exposing them. Can’t people understand how propagandized they are daily?
Another bothersome aspect for me is our people and culture is rife with a high depravity index, and so to make up for this gross deficiency in our culture ( which is highly influenced by the media class) we must somehow elect some guy who’s exactly like Romney and use him to prove to everyone how our ideas are so much better while nothing changes. We stay in a racheted system that goes one ( or two) clicks left under Republican powers and three or four clicks left under Democrat powers, and allies such as yourself can’t grasp that there’s no winning that game.
This is just a fact.
This is just a fact.
I am fine with your last statement, as long as I can add that I like Trump’s middle class tax cut, am pleased that he will not bow to pressure on the open borders debate and I also appreciate ho he continues continues to understand that the middle class has been ignored out of existence for far too long.