Oof. Seattle Sugar Tax Raises Soda Prices by 75 Percent

 

Seattle residents started the new year with a bad case of sticker shock followed by a sugar crash. A new tax of 1.75 cents per ounce was added to all sweetened beverages sold in the city. The move had public support in June when it was passed 7-1 by the Seattle City Council, but images of regret have been hitting social media as the bill came due Monday.

The prices at an area Costco showed that the tax increases the price of Gatorade by 65 percent and Dr Pepper by 75 percent. To avoid complaints from outraged customers, the discount chain posted an explanation of the steep price increase.

Where will all the new revenue go? Seattle officials expect a $15 million boost in the first year. Since this was sold as a health initiative, $2 million of that will expand a city program that gives fruit and vegetable vouchers to low-income families. Of course, only $400,000 will go to actual vouchers; the other $1.6 million stays with the government for “administrative costs.”

Philadelphia, which enacted a similar tax last year, overestimated the expected revenue. Sales of carbonated soft drinks fell 55 percent inside the city, while sales rose 38 percent in the towns that surround it. It achieved neither the financial goals nor the health goals.

When the Seattle tax was first proposed, a “racial-equity analysis” found that diet beverages should be included since they are more popular among whites and the wealthy people. The politicians shot this down since they know which constituents donate to and vote for them.

Like most of these beverage taxes hitting blue cities, what is and is not included are counter-intuitive. All meal replacement drinks, powdered mixes, and most sugary coffee drinks — such as those found at local mega-company Starbucks — are exempt.

So, if you buy a bottled lemonade, you pay the tax. If you buy Kool-Aid and mix it with water at home, no tax. If you buy a Venti Brown Sugar Shortbread Latte at Starbucks, the tax doesn’t apply. If you get a Tall Brown Sugar Shortbread Frappuccino, which has less sugar, it does.

Local convenience store owner Jong Kim is frustrated, to say the least:

“What can I do? I have no power,” he mused, shrugging his shoulders behind the counter at his store, Summit Foods. “Seattle is too expensive. Everything is a tax.”

Oh well, I’m sure this foolish new soda tax will turn out fine just like Seattle’s foolish minimum wage hike.

Published in Economics
Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 224 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Black Prince Inactive
    Black Prince
    @BlackPrince

    Mike H (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):
    I’m between two minds on this one. This tax seems to be very heavy handed, but there is a obesity/diabetes/fatty-liver disease epidemic in America and the over consumption of sugar is a major contributing factor, if not the outright cause. The incidence of obesity and diabetes is ridiculously high in this county and something has to be done.

    Couldn’t agree more. Given the clear-cut health impact of Americans’ overconsumption of sugar and high-fructose corn syrup, soft drinks seem highly tax-worthy to me. As much as I hate agreeing with Seattle progressives, I think this tax has merit.

    I hate agreeing with progressives too, but I take some comfort in knowing that even a broken clock is right twice a day. To be honest, I think that the over-consumption of sugar is doing more harm to our country than illegal drugs.

    No, not a good idea to tax food for noble goals. The current obesity and type 2 diabetes epidemic is itself the result of government meddling.

    I agree, although I still think that we’d have an obesity and diabetes epidemic without government interference—it just wouldn’t be as bad. The demonization of fat and the substitution of fat with sugar by food producers is absolutely criminal in my mind.

    It would also hopefully do something about the soybean oil, maybe the least healthy fat, in all processed foods.

    I’d also add “vegetable” (canola) oil to that list.

    • #91
  2. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Sash (View Comment):
    This is what fascism looks like, trying to control others… by taxing what you find sinful behavior.

    I hope I’m not splitting hairs or stating the obvious, but in my mind the over consumption of sugar has nothing to do with sin or morality.

    Everything has to do with sin and morality. Even the choice of whether to take the oatmeal-raisin cookie or the chocolate-chip cookie is a moral choice.

    Maybe I’m just slow (or not getting the humor), but you’ll have to help me a little here…how is choosing between raisins or chocolate chips a moral choice?

    Edit: I think I get you now…it could depend on how those raisins and chocolate chips were produced (extreme example: slave labor). Is that kind of what you’re talking about?

    It’s more subtle than that. Everything has effects. They will affect you (calories, enjoyment) and the people around you (one more or less cookie for others). There’s probably an optimal, most moral, choice. Though, the magnitude of the decision is probably negligible.

    • #92
  3. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):
    I’m between two minds on this one. This tax seems to be very heavy handed, but there is a obesity/diabetes/fatty-liver disease epidemic in America and the over consumption of sugar is a major contributing factor, if not the outright cause. The incidence of obesity and diabetes is ridiculously high in this county and something has to be done.

    Couldn’t agree more. Given the clear-cut health impact of Americans’ overconsumption of sugar and high-fructose corn syrup, soft drinks seem highly tax-worthy to me. As much as I hate agreeing with Seattle progressives, I think this tax has merit.

    I hate agreeing with progressives too, but I take some comfort in knowing that even a broken clock is right twice a day. To be honest, I think that the over-consumption of sugar is doing more harm to our country than illegal drugs.

    No, not a good idea to tax food for noble goals. The current obesity and type 2 diabetes epidemic is itself the result of government meddling.

    I agree, although I still think that we’d have an obesity and diabetes epidemic without government interference—it just wouldn’t be as bad. The demonization of fat and the substitution of fat with sugar by food producers is absolutely criminal in my mind.

    It would also hopefully do something about the soybean oil, maybe the least healthy fat, in all processed foods.

    I’d also add “vegetable” (canola) oil to that list.

    You mean rapeseed(!) oil? lol

    Yes, but if I had to choose between soy, corn, and canola, canola is the obviously clear winner.

    • #93
  4. Black Prince Inactive
    Black Prince
    @BlackPrince

    Mike H (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Sash (View Comment):
    This is what fascism looks like, trying to control others… by taxing what you find sinful behavior.

    I hope I’m not splitting hairs or stating the obvious, but in my mind the over consumption of sugar has nothing to do with sin or morality.

    Everything has to do with sin and morality. Even the choice of whether to take the oatmeal-raisin cookie or the chocolate-chip cookie is a moral choice.

    Maybe I’m just slow (or not getting the humor), but you’ll have to help me a little here…how is choosing between raisins or chocolate chips a moral choice?

    Edit: I think I get you now…it could depend on how those raisins and chocolate chips were produced (extreme example: slave labor). Is that kind of what you’re talking about?

    It’s more subtle than that. Everything has effects. They will affect you (calories, enjoyment) and the people around you (one more or less cookie for others). There’s probably an optimal, most moral, choice. Though, the magnitude of the decision is probably negligible.

    And, in most cases, one does not posses all the necessary information to accurately determine what the most moral choice would be.

    • #94
  5. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    … Glad Washington is looking out for the health and safety of its citizens, yes sir, the first state to legalize recreational marijuana – oh wait….get hooked and stoned….I get it – increase the munchies cravings ten-fold, then double the cost – sneaky. This Democratic governor is being looked at as a 2020 presidential contender says the Internet – he can run on tax and more legislation.

    I’ve posted on Ricochet regarding both of these issues, harshly so. I strongly oppose the progressive/socialist wave engulfing Seattle and rippling throughout the state. But I find it difficult to get worked up about a tax on sugary drinks — a product so trivial to anyone’s sense of well-being and positively and indisputably harmful to one’s health.

    • #95
  6. Hammer, The Inactive
    Hammer, The
    @RyanM

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):
    I’m between two minds on this one. This tax seems to be very heavy handed, but there is a obesity/diabetes/fatty-liver disease epidemic in America and the over consumption of sugar is a major contributing factor, if not the outright cause. The incidence of obesity and diabetes is ridiculously high in this county and something has to be done.

    Couldn’t agree more. Given the clear-cut health impact of Americans’ overconsumption of sugar and high-fructose corn syrup, soft drinks seem highly tax-worthy to me. As much as I hate agreeing with Seattle progressives, I think this tax has merit.

    I hate agreeing with progressives too, but I take some comfort in knowing that even a broken clock is right twice a day. To be honest, I think that the over-consumption of sugar is doing more harm to our country than illegal drugs.

    Do you have a choice in the amount of sugar you consume?

    • #96
  7. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Sash (View Comment):
    This is what fascism looks like, trying to control others… by taxing what you find sinful behavior.

    I hope I’m not splitting hairs or stating the obvious, but in my mind the over consumption of sugar has nothing to do with sin or morality.

    Everything has to do with sin and morality. Even the choice of whether to take the oatmeal-raisin cookie or the chocolate-chip cookie is a moral choice.

    Maybe I’m just slow (or not getting the humor), but you’ll have to help me a little here…how is choosing between raisins or chocolate chips a moral choice?

    Edit: I think I get you now…it could depend on how those raisins and chocolate chips were produced (extreme example: slave labor). Is that kind of what you’re talking about?

    That’s one possibility, though not one I was thinking of. But yes. There is also the issue of whether I’m taking care of my health properly, which is important to whether I can take care of my family responsibilities. There is the issue of whether the next person, who has always gotten the short end of the stick, really likes chocolate chip cookies, and my taking the last one will not help him be a better person.   There’s always something. I don’t know in the abstract what that something will be, but there’s always some moral aspect to the choices we make.

    • #97
  8. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    It’s more subtle than that. Everything has effects. They will affect you (calories, enjoyment) and the people around you (one more or less cookie for others). There’s probably an optimal, most moral, choice. Though, the magnitude of the decision is probably negligible.

    And, in most cases, one does not posses all the necessary information to accurately determine what the most moral choice would be.

    That is true. So as Martin Luther said, “Love God and sin boldly.”

    • #98
  9. Hammer, The Inactive
    Hammer, The
    @RyanM

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Sash (View Comment):
    This is what fascism looks like, trying to control others… by taxing what you find sinful behavior.

    I hope I’m not splitting hairs or stating the obvious, but in my mind the over consumption of sugar has nothing to do with sin or morality.

    Everything has to do with sin and morality. Even the choice of whether to take the oatmeal-raisin cookie or the chocolate-chip cookie is a moral choice.

    Maybe I’m just slow (or not getting the humor), but you’ll have to help me a little here…how is choosing between raisins or chocolate chips a moral choice?

    Edit: I think I get you now…it could depend on how those raisins and chocolate chips were produced (extreme example: slave labor). Is that kind of what you’re talking about?

    It’s more subtle than that. Everything has effects. They will affect you (calories, enjoyment) and the people around you (one more or less cookie for others). There’s probably an optimal, most moral, choice. Though, the magnitude of the decision is probably negligible.

    And, in most cases, one does not posses all the necessary information to accurately determine what the most moral choice would be.

    So – one person is not capable of weighing all of the necessary personal information in order to make the appropriate choice – taking into consideration his own body, his own life, his own unique situation, his own preferences and tastes, his needs, his personal beliefs, his geographic setting and work situation, his family and his genetic history…

    But you trust a centralized government to come up with a one-size-fits all solution to be mandated by threat of force for the entire country?  And you think this will do more good than harm?

    • #99
  10. Hammer, The Inactive
    Hammer, The
    @RyanM

    rico (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    … Glad Washington is looking out for the health and safety of its citizens, yes sir, the first state to legalize recreational marijuana – oh wait….get hooked and stoned….I get it – increase the munchies cravings ten-fold, then double the cost – sneaky. This Democratic governor is being looked at as a 2020 presidential contender says the Internet – he can run on tax and more legislation.

    I’ve posted on Ricochet regarding both of these issues, harshly so. I strongly oppose the progressive/socialist wave engulfing Seattle and rippling throughout the state. But I find it difficult to get worked up about a tax on sugary drinks — a product so trivial to anyone’s sense of well-being and positively and indisputably harmful to one’s health.

    Wait – when you see the government stepping in and doubling the cost of a consumer good, thereby interfering with your right to engage in commerce, you don’t get worked up?!  The problem may be that you do not enjoy sugary drinks, and are having trouble personalizing it.

    Let us suggest that Seattle decided it is super worried about the banana shortage or the plot of honey bees.  So it adds $10 to the purchase of any honey bear, and a bunch of bananas that used to cost 79c now costs you $15.  It’s all for good, right?  Or lets say that Seattle decided that more people should bike to work, and so it closed down the freeways for 2 days per week, requiring that every citizen ride a bicycle or walk.  That would be better for your health than the soda tax, no?

    Any problem with that?  Where do you get riled up about random strangers dictating the way you live your life?  If you already live in Seattle, presumably you don’t have a problem with people digging through your garbage to make sure you recycle, or telling you that you cannot use plastic bags…  no concern that it doesn’t end there?

    • #100
  11. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):
    I’m between two minds on this one. This tax seems to be very heavy handed, but there is a obesity/diabetes/fatty-liver disease epidemic in America and the over consumption of sugar is a major contributing factor, if not the outright cause. The incidence of obesity and diabetes is ridiculously high in this county and something has to be done.

    Couldn’t agree more. Given the clear-cut health impact of Americans’ overconsumption of sugar and high-fructose corn syrup, soft drinks seem highly tax-worthy to me. As much as I hate agreeing with Seattle progressives, I think this tax has merit.

    I hate agreeing with progressives too, but I take some comfort in knowing that even a broken clock is right twice a day. To be honest, I think that the over-consumption of sugar is doing more harm to our country than illegal drugs.

    Do you have a choice in the amount of sugar you consume?

    Yes, and I consciously exercise that choice. Everyone has that choice, although people typically choose based on impulse (as I did before becoming more fully informed about health and nutrition).

    • #101
  12. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    … Glad Washington is looking out for the health and safety of its citizens, yes sir, the first state to legalize recreational marijuana – oh wait….get hooked and stoned….I get it – increase the munchies cravings ten-fold, then double the cost – sneaky. This Democratic governor is being looked at as a 2020 presidential contender says the Internet – he can run on tax and more legislation.

    I’ve posted on Ricochet regarding both of these issues, harshly so. I strongly oppose the progressive/socialist wave engulfing Seattle and rippling throughout the state. But I find it difficult to get worked up about a tax on sugary drinks — a product so trivial to anyone’s sense of well-being and positively and indisputably harmful to one’s health.

    Wait – when you see the government stepping in and doubling the cost of a consumer good, thereby interfering with your right to engage in commerce, you don’t get worked up?! The problem may be that you do not enjoy sugary drinks, and are having trouble personalizing it.

    Let us suggest that Seattle decided it is super worried about the banana shortage or the plot of honey bees. So it adds $10 to the purchase of any honey bear, and a bunch of bananas that used to cost 79c now costs you $15. It’s all for good, right? Or lets say that Seattle decided that more people should bike to work, and so it closed down the freeways for 2 days per week, requiring that every citizen ride a bicycle or walk. That would be better for your health than the soda tax, no?

    SHHHHH! Don’t give them ideas!

    • #102
  13. Black Prince Inactive
    Black Prince
    @BlackPrince

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Sash (View Comment):
    This is what fascism looks like, trying to control others… by taxing what you find sinful behavior.

    I hope I’m not splitting hairs or stating the obvious, but in my mind the over consumption of sugar has nothing to do with sin or morality.

    Everything has to do with sin and morality. Even the choice of whether to take the oatmeal-raisin cookie or the chocolate-chip cookie is a moral choice.

    Maybe I’m just slow (or not getting the humor), but you’ll have to help me a little here…how is choosing between raisins or chocolate chips a moral choice?

    Edit: I think I get you now…it could depend on how those raisins and chocolate chips were produced (extreme example: slave labor). Is that kind of what you’re talking about?

    It’s more subtle than that. Everything has effects. They will affect you (calories, enjoyment) and the people around you (one more or less cookie for others). There’s probably an optimal, most moral, choice. Though, the magnitude of the decision is probably negligible.

    And, in most cases, one does not posses all the necessary information to accurately determine what the most moral choice would be.

    So – one person is not capable of weighing all of the necessary personal information in order to make the appropriate choice – taking into consideration his own body, his own life, his own unique situation, his own preferences and tastes, his needs, his personal beliefs, his geographic setting and work situation, his family and his genetic history…

    But you trust a centralized government to come up with a one-size-fits all solution to be mandated by threat of force for the entire country? And you think this will do more good than harm?

    I never said any of those things. I’m simply acknowledging human limitations.

    • #103
  14. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    Where do you get riled up about random strangers dictating the way you live your life? If you already live in Seattle, presumably you don’t have a problem with people digging through your garbage to make sure you recycle, or telling you that you cannot use plastic bags

    Actually, I’ve posted on those subjects too. And I do object to those policies, and I happen to live outside of Seattle.

    But more to your point, I see this tax as no more problematic than a cigarette tax, in fact less so. It is imposed locally and is easily avoidable (as so many commenters have noted). The scenarios you mention in #100 are entirely of a different order. I’m sympathetic to a slippery slope argument, but I don’t think that this new tax makes the slope any more slippery.

    • #104
  15. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    RightAngles (View Comment):
    When your enemy is making mistakes, stand back and let them. They’ll create new Republicans.

    That could be a bumper sticker.

    • #105
  16. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    rico (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    Where do you get riled up about random strangers dictating the way you live your life? If you already live in Seattle, presumably you don’t have a problem with people digging through your garbage to make sure you recycle, or telling you that you cannot use plastic bags

    Actually, I’ve posted on those subjects too. And I do object to those policies, and I happen to live outside of Seattle.

    But more to your point, I see this tax as no more problematic than a cigarette tax, in fact less so. It is imposed locally and is easily avoidable (as so many commenters have noted). The scenarios you mention in #100 are entirely of a different order. I’m sympathetic to a slippery slope argument, but I don’t think that this new tax makes the slope any more slippery.

    Next step: banning soft drink ads?

     

    • #106
  17. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Always on the lookout for new forms of Orwell-speak, I focused on the term “racial equity analysis” in Jon’s summary.  I’m happy to share my research with all in the hope that you’ll be as confused as I am.

    • #107
  18. Son of Barsham Member
    Son of Barsham
    @LesserSonofBarsham

    Mike H (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Sash (View Comment):
    This is what fascism looks like, trying to control others… by taxing what you find sinful behavior.

    I hope I’m not splitting hairs or stating the obvious, but in my mind the over consumption of sugar has nothing to do with sin or morality.

    Everything has to do with sin and morality. Even the choice of whether to take the oatmeal-raisin cookie or the chocolate-chip cookie is a moral choice.

    Maybe I’m just slow (or not getting the humor), but you’ll have to help me a little here…how is choosing between raisins or chocolate chips a moral choice?

    Edit: I think I get you now…it could depend on how those raisins and chocolate chips were produced (extreme example: slave labor). Is that kind of what you’re talking about?

    It’s more subtle than that. Everything has effects. They will affect you (calories, enjoyment) and the people around you (one more or less cookie for others). There’s probably an optimal, most moral, choice. Though, the magnitude of the decision is probably negligible.

    Only if you’re actually expecting them to be raisins.

    • #108
  19. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    Where do you get riled up about random strangers dictating the way you live your life? If you already live in Seattle, presumably you don’t have a problem with people digging through your garbage to make sure you recycle, or telling you that you cannot use plastic bags

    Actually, I’ve posted on those subjects too. And I do object to those policies, and I happen to live outside of Seattle.

    But more to your point, I see this tax as no more problematic than a cigarette tax, in fact less so. It is imposed locally and is easily avoidable (as so many commenters have noted). The scenarios you mention in #100 are entirely of a different order. I’m sympathetic to a slippery slope argument, but I don’t think that this new tax makes the slope any more slippery.

    Next step: banning soft drink ads?

    Without control of the internet or radio/airwaves there’s  probably not enough leverage to have much impact (billboards are scarce around here). As my fellow commenters have pointed out, tax revenues are a crucial objective of the tax (effectiveness in that regard is yet to be seen), and banning ads won’t accomplish that. But there’s no telling what progressive scheme will be proposed in the Emerald City.

    • #109
  20. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    rico (View Comment):
    You’re right. They’re wrong. But in some cases taxes can influence behavior in positive ways.

    The question isn’t “Do they?” but “Should they be used that way?”

    • #110
  21. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Eustace C. Scrubb (View Comment):
    And like the rise in the minimum wage, it is a law that will hurt the poor and not the rich. Typical for most progressive policy.

    In America, the incidence of obesity and diabetes is higher in the poor than in the rich…and the poor are least able to afford the associated costs.

    I would settle for a lowering of corn subsidies if those still exist. My understanding was the subsidies were for ethanol fuel which failed. The prevalence of corn grown with government assistance increases the supply, driving down the cost of corn products – such as sodas and many junk food items.

    With less production going towards healthier fruits and vegetables, the supply isn’t as high, so the cost of fresh fruit and veggies is higher.

    This makes it more difficult for the poor to eat healthy. Which explains the veggie supplement.

    However, they aren’t the only things – poor management and organization that goes into meal planning is not usually a trait shared among lower classes, so long shelf life beats out discount ripe produce. I would like to see some gyms start holding meal planning seminars, nutrition guidance with a visiting dietician, or other kinds of community outreach to help people struggling to make good choices have better tools to succeed. Seems like something right up the YMCA alley.

    • #111
  22. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Black Prince (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):

    Chris Campion (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):

    Eustace C. Scrubb (View Comment):
    And like the rise in the minimum wage, it is a law that will hurt the poor and not the rich. Typical for most progressive policy.

    Actually, levying a tax on a consumer product has very little in common with requiring employers and employees to accept a government mandated minimum wage. And to the extent that people (rich or poor) consume less of these products, their health will benefit.

    It is true that this policy is pushed by progressives, but that doesn’t negate these facts.

    What if they consume less health care because it’s so expensive? Will that impact their health?

    We already consume about double the healthcare than is optimal health wise (at the margin, a procedure is just as likely to help than hurt, and many are much more likely to cause harm) So, yes, consuming less health care is likely to impact their health in a positive way.

    Very interesting point…quality of life and life expectancy isn’t higher in America than in comparable countries that consume (spend?) less (on) healthcare (e.g. Canada, Japan, Europe).

    Well, you have to factor in the fact that we’re greatly subsidizing them with our technology and drugs. But yes, the American culture is one where more health care consumption is by definition healthy. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Health care, especially surgery and other interventions, come with risks. In the case of surgery, the effectiveness might be as low as 15%, but people don’t hear that, they have a complaint and something that could theoretically help them so they take on more risk than they realize. In the case of procedures (like detecting cancer), people could be freaked out into doing unnecessary treatments to try to “prevent” something from turning into cancer. Yeah, you may catch a couple extra instances and save someone’s life, but the number you need to treat with often painful and expensive procedures to save that one life can be astronomical.

    • #112
  23. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Health care, especially surgery and other interventions, come with risks. In the case of surgery, the effectiveness might be as low as 15%

    My wife has had surgery four times.  Two were disasters and two had more or less no effect.  No one’s cutting on me unless I’m already on my deathbed.

    • #113
  24. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):
    You’re right. They’re wrong. But in some cases taxes can influence behavior in positive ways.

    The question isn’t “Do they?” but “Should they be used that way?”

    Well, that’s fine as a general principal, but this local soda tax pales into insignificance when stacked up against the existing social policy built into the tax code. Shall we compare the soda tax to the mortgage interest deduction in terms of government dictated behavior modification?

    • #114
  25. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    rico (View Comment):
    Well, that’s fine as a general principal, but this local soda tax pales into insignificance when stacked up against the existing social policy built into the tax code. Shall we compare the soda tax to the mortgage interest deduction in terms of behavior modification?

    The mortgage interest deduction being popular doesn’t make it a proper use of the tax code.

    • #115
  26. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):
    Well, that’s fine as a general principal, but this local soda tax pales into insignificance when stacked up against the existing social policy built into the tax code. Shall we compare the soda tax to the mortgage interest deduction in terms of behavior modification?

    The mortgage interest deduction being popular doesn’t make it a proper use of the tax code.

    I’m glad we agree, but we are clearly in the minority. I haven’t seen much outrage about Congress’s timid approach to this issue in the new tax legislation, but no need to pursue that here.

    Would you approve of repealing all taxes on cigarettes and alcohol? (…as policy, not personal preference <g>)

    • #116
  27. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Interesting comments, especially interesting in light of the fact pot is legal for recreational use in Washington. Even more interesting because Washington and Oregon may lower their pot taxes because they have found that illegal grow operations have not disappeared, remember that promise. Even more more interesting because pot accounts for more ER visits than all other drugs combined. Oh, and pot is involved in over 80% of workplace accidents, and it is a close second to alcohol when it comes to people seeking addiction help.

    You all worry about soda, donuts, and cheeseburgers, I’ll keep an eye on legal pot.

    • #117
  28. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    … Even more more interesting because pot accounts for more ER visits than all other drugs combined. Oh, and pot is involved in over 80% of workplace accidents, and it is a close second to alcohol when it comes to people seeking addiction help.

    I’d love to see your source material for this (I’m not doubting it, but would like to have it available when making the same argument myself).

    • #118
  29. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    You all worry about soda, donuts, and cheeseburgers, I’ll keep an eye on legal pot.

    The primary health/nutrition problem with cheeseburgers is the bun and the ketchup.

    • #119
  30. Son of Barsham Member
    Son of Barsham
    @LesserSonofBarsham

    rico (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    You all worry about soda, donuts, and cheeseburgers, I’ll keep an eye on legal pot.

    The primary health/nutrition problem with cheeseburgers is the bun and the ketchup.

    The bun I could live without but the ketchup?

    • #120
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.