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The Last Jedi: A Spoiler-Filled Discussion
In 1977 my life changed. I was seven years old, and fascinated with dinosaurs. Then one day my parents took me to see a new movie that had just come out about a galaxy far, far away. I left the theater that day and started reading all about space and astronomy. And I was hooked. I even ended up getting a degree in space physics (which I haven’t really used, but that’s another story). It’s not an overstatement to say that Star Wars, which lead to a love of science fiction and then science, was a major factor in my life.
Yesterday afternoon I got to see The Last Jedi. As they say, I have thoughts. Feel free to share your own. All this is before reading any other reviews or discussions, so it may be that all the ground here has been covered elsewhere. And if the title of this didn’t make it clear, what follows is one giant spoiler of everything in the movie. Don’t read on unless you really want to know.
Overall, I enjoyed it. It wasn’t perfect, and there are definitely some parts I wish they had done differently, but I think it’s a better movie than The Force Awakens. I know some people found it unpredictable and said that the whole movie was an exercise in doing the unexpected. I disagree with that assessment. I found parts of it were extremely predictable. For example, when Rey handed Luke the lightsaber at the beginning of the movie, I just knew that Luke would look at it and throw it over his shoulder. Which is exactly what he did. Let’s look at the story by character or plotline.
Rey:
I liked what they did with Rey in this movie. I’m particularly glad they didn’t try and make her Luke’s abandoned daughter. I know a lot of people were insisting she had to be a Skywalker, but I didn’t like what that would say about Luke. I thought that particular scene with Rey and Kylo Ren was powerful, with Rey admitting that her parents were drifters who had abandoned her and Kylo saying “You have no place in this story. You’re nobody … But not to me.” At that moment I could almost believe that there was a path to redemption for Kylo Ren. (More on him in a bit.) One bit that I thought was confusing was how Rey ended up on the Millennium Falcon at the end of the movie. She and Kylo Ren were fighting for the lightsaber on Snoke’s ship, the lightsaber blew up and knocked them both out. Clearly, she awakened first, but how she got from there to the Falcon isn’t explained. That aside, Rey is the character who shows the most growth in the movie.
Luke:
First, Mark Hamill has definitely improved as an actor from the first trilogy. But that’s not a high bar to cross. His crazy eyes in the flashback scene where he’s tempted to kill Ben Solo are a bit over the top. As for Luke’s story here, he doesn’t do much productive. He doesn’t teach Rey anything she hasn’t already figured out, and once Yoda comes back to talk some sense into him it’s too late. She’s taken off to confront Kylo Ren. His scene where he’s “fighting” Kylo Ren out in the desert is the best part of his story. They made it really obvious that he wasn’t really there though, focusing on how everyone else was leaving blood-red footprints except him. What I don’t get here is why he dies after the fight. Are we supposed to think that projecting his image over all that distance is so draining that it killed him? And why show us the X-wing sunk in the water next to the island if he never uses it? Talk about Chekov’s gun not getting fired.
Kylo Ren (Ben Solo):
Emo Kylo was by far my least favorite character in The Force Awakens, and it’s not just because I wanted to be Han Solo as a kid. Kylo is better in this movie, but not by much. In the scene where Snoke is telling him to kill Rey, I was completely unsurprised that he turned on Snoke instead. Sith lords always die when they’re betrayed by their apprentice. Now that Luke is dead (and with Carrie Fisher’s death in real life), Kylo Ren is the only Skywalker left in the story. So I suppose that means the whole next movie will be his redemption. How they’ll square that with the idea that the Force requires balance and there will always be dark to balance the light is going to be interesting. I’m… less than enthused. The Skywalker story is the biggest part of Star Wars, and the only Skywalker left is an unlikable brat with very few positive qualities.
Poe:
This part of the movie, along with the Finn/Rose storyline, was the weakest part. Why did Leia and Admiral Holdo keep secret the plan to abandon the cruiser and sneak over to the abandoned base? And when did they come up with the plan? If they didn’t know they were being tracked through hyperspace, why did they come out so far away from the planet? The plan only makes sense if they did know, and it still doesn’t explain why they kept it secret from him. Unless they were afraid they had a spy aboard who would reveal the truth to the First Order, there’s no point in not explaining the plan. And if there is a spy, they’re still screwed as soon as they land and the spy reveals the hidden base. The whole point seems to be to let Poe’s character grow from hotshot pilot to true leader, but it fails miserably. It drives him to mutiny and they just smile and pat him on the head for it. Poe is best as he starts. The smart-ass pilot taunting the First Order by “holding for General Hux” and then blowing their dreadnought’s cannons away.
Finn and Rose:
I liked Rose, but everything they did with these two was a waste of time. If the Resistance can’t broadcast their distress signal to the allies from the ship, how are Finn and crew supposed to be able to contact Maz Kanata (in the middle of her “union dispute,” which totally cracked me up)? And the idea that they can sneak off the ship, find this code breaker, end up with some other master thief codebreaker instead, and then get back in time to sneak onto Snoke’s ship to disable the hyperspace tracker that they just figured out must exist and therefore they know everything about it is stupid. As is the idea that the codebreaker somehow betrayed them. They were caught red-handed. Did he somehow betray them before they even got on the ship? And how did he know to suggest the “decloaking scan” that caught the Resistance ships sneaking to the abandoned base? And if they have a “decloaking scan,” why isn’t it standard practice to continuously run it to detect cloaked ships? This whole plot line just falls apart if you spend any of time thinking about it. One good part out of this part of the movie is that they got rid of the stupid Captain Phasma. She was a complete waste of screen time and won’t be missed.
Princess Leia (General Solo):
As cool as it is to see Carrie Fisher in the role this one last time, I was underwhelmed by her character. She’s passive, letting events control her and not taking any action to change what’s happening. The scene with her surviving being blown into space and using the Force to fly back to the ship was one exception. Beyond that, we see the rest of the galaxy ignore her personal distress code, clearly indicating that no one else thinks she’s all that important anymore.
Vice Admiral Holdo:
What is the point of this character? Other than to let Laura Dern have a role? She’s just there to act as a foil for Poe, and I already commented how that whole plotline made no sense. And then there’s this:
I can’t endorse this enough. That would have been perfect. What a wasted opportunity.
After all this, you may be questioning my assertion that I liked the movie. After all, I’ve torn apart every storyline except Rey’s. But that one story is enough. Rey going from a girl just looking for her place in the galaxy to one ready to take on her role as the next Jedi is what matters. And even though the rest of the movie disintegrates upon inspection, it’s still enjoyable if you don’t spend time thinking too much about it. Just let it be Star Wars and have fun.
Published in Entertainment
Can confirm. It’s in the very last part where she’s getting something out of a drawer in the Falcon.
Yes! Didn’t they imply she had died in the Ep. 7 too? I haven’t actually seen that one since I watched it in theaters.
And that’s important because no one ever made copies of the books or digitized them. Because that would be too imperial and mechanistic.
Considering that the latest push from Disney is to not allow the main white girl character to have a boyfriend unless he is a minority, I’m actually quite surprised that they didn’t hook Rey and Finn up.
He’s was incredibly annoying, but I don’t know that I would go that far…..
To be fair, Boba is kind of a bad-ass.
Ewww……gross.
We were talking about how none of the women in that movie were spectacularly good-looking. Even in the casino scene the ladies have weird makeup on that detracts from their natural looks.
She was clearly created to kill the romantic tension between Finn and Rey,* since Rey/Kylo is clearly where the story managers want to go.
Relatedly, yeah. I love me some Asian women, but that actress was clearly a diversity hire.
*It’s imperative that we keep the black man away from the white girl.** ;-)
**That’s a joke, people!
I like Daisy Ridley’s looks, but I admit I’m more drawn to “cute” girls than to traditionally “hot” girls.
I know. I’m sick. :(
Let’s just break her down all the way. Problems:
1) A flag naval officer who is not on the bridge. Admiral Ackbar should be heading up the evacuation once everyone is spaceborn. As a Vice-Admiral, Laura Dern’s character should probably have an active role in all this. Presumably, she is the ranking #2 officer in the Resistance Fleet.
2) A flag naval officer who is out of uniform. Well, the biggest thing here for me is she is an unknown character for the audience. You’re announcing she’s some big mumba-jumba, but visually you’re giving us, as someone else said, Effie from Hunger Games. Proper military garb might have given the character some credibility.
3) Her character’s depth comes from a single line from Poe. There is no other revelation about her. Poe has a line, something like, “That’s Admiral Holdo from the Battle of _______? Not what I expected.” Two things here, I think: first, we’re supposed to be impressed because Poe is. Second, we’re supposed to recognize Poe’s reflexive sexism.
4) Despite reported heroism from the Battle of ______, she doesn’t seem too bright. She watches for minutes as most of the rebel transports are destroyed, yet she has a huge cruiser she could move into the line of fire, or do the other thing she finally does. Instead, she spends a lot of time staring worriedly out the window until her ultimate act. This after the most melodramatic part of the film where, at the same window, she says, “Godspeed, Rebels!” Might have been dramatic if eight movies hadn’t gone to some trouble to keep God out of the script and thus it’s a bit jarring to hear God invoked.
5) She is the worst kind of leader: I know better than you, and you need to shut up. In terms of discipline, this is correct. In terms of winning over a team unfamiliar with you, it’s the worst thing you can do. The whole organization doesn’t seem to have a tight military structure, so the dynamic here can be whatever the script writer wants. Regardless, as written, her leadership chops aren’t impressive.
All of this is indicative of the lack of thought put into how these characters fit into a larger whole. It’s just lazy and bad writing.
Agreed on all of what you said, well I personally liked the “Godspeed” but I get where you’re coming from. As noted earlier on this thread, pretty much any and all combat in the Star Wars universe (other than light-saber duels obviously) is cartoonish and completely illogical.
It’s almost as much fun to pick the movies apart as it is to watch them and we might be putting them in a no-win situation, but they get paid well to be there so tough cookies.
My understanding is that they worship The Force, so the writers probably thought “Forcespeed” sounded silly.
Yeah, I agree with this. When it comes down to it, what people probably wanted, including me, was a continuation of a heroic epic and it’s a very difficult thing to do. It’s something along the lines of, “If you thought that bunch was heroic, wait ’til you see these people…” and things must be more exaggerated and the characters must overcome longer odds. I’m not sure how else you do it without placing them in a whole new scenario.
The books now referred to as Legends managed to do it, though. The scenario was the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant encounter an enemy that threatens to wipe them all out. I only read one book in the series and listened to another (many years ago), but they put it together pretty well. I think there were five books in total.
Added note: after checking, apparently there were nineteen books and a few short stories and novellas. That’s quite a project.
I’ve seen the movie twice now. Full disclosure, Ms. Phred works at Lucasfilm (she leads the finance team for Star Wars Rebels). I saw the film at an employee screening and with a real audience. That said, she and I are not fanboy Kool-Aid drinkers. We’ve been chewing over the issues since the first screening.
Some dumb stuff not already mentioned:
Rose’s kamikaze ploy and the line she utters as she dies/doesn’t die: “Sometimes you win the war by saving those you love.” WTF? No, no, no, NOOOO! You save the ones you love by killing the enemy and ending the war.
The baddies breach the door on the mineral planet with the battering ram. Why not keep the thing firing and incinerate everyone inside? As in: “I say we nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.”
Bug planet! Nice.
Apparently there is a book that explains some things. Both the Republic and Empire are much smaller than we would think otherwise.
Just got back from seeing the movie. It was enjoyable, but you have to check your brain at the door to enjoy it.
One of many examples: Like The Walking Dead, the characters in Star Wars seem unable to learn elementary tactical lessons. In the first battle scene, a single Rebel fighter is able to penetrate the First Order defenses and do critical damage to ships because the First Order command failed to have in place a CAP (“combat air patrol”). The ships are essentially aircraft carriers, and when your carriers are in enemy waters, you keep a few fighters aloft at all times just so you don’t get surprised. Somehow the First Order naval command has never heard of the concept, despite many battle encounters with the Rebels.
The Rebels aren’t much better. They send in bombers, but close enough to each other that if the payload of one is hit, it sets off a chain reaction that destroys most of the attacking force. Which happens. Duh.
The only redeeming feature of that scene is that it happens early, so I could reset my expectations for the film a lot lower, which made it more enjoyable.
In the animated series, there are a ton of planets trying to stay neutral.
3/10
It was rubbish. Luke and Rey stuff was fine and Luke’s send off was the best part. The slow retreat through space was mind-numbingly dull as was the “action” with Fin and whoever she was on the evil arms dealer planet. Mega plot holes plus the fact that Snoke gets done in before we know who he is or what motivates him. The subsequent fight between the two temporary allies of Kylo and Rey is a cool scene but should have come in a later film. Who is the serious bad guy now? Kylo? Great . . .
Also, Leia’s exposure to space could have been a good way to deal with the death of the actress, instead they decided on some Guardians of the Galaxy nonsense and she pulls herself back into the ship with the force. Lame
In terms of discipline, this is only correct in circumstances where need to know matters and instant, reflexive responses are required. Neither one applies here. The whole (unstated) goal here for Leia seems to be turning Poe into the next great leader for the rebel military, but it’s hard to think of a worse way to go about it. A good leader developing a promising subordinate will take the junior officer into her confidence and explain to him WHY she makes decisions that seem counterproductive. She will entrust him will small parts of the plan, allowing him to build his experience and share the responsibility for the inevitable consequences. Instead, Holdo undermines Poe’s confidence, seems more intent on tricking him with her sneaky move, and ultimately forces him to lead a mutiny and take actions which lead to the ultimate failure of both sets of plans.
One big thing they did “right:” the over-the-top ridiculousness of Poe’s “telephone” gambit at the beginning of the movie is a huge clue-bat to reset expectations to serial-space-opera-Flash Gordon style.
Along with all the other weaknesses of Star Wars as a universe, we all know that The Force and Jedi philosophy are not well enough thought out to carry any heavy freight.
on a character note: Luke’s moment of weakness when he fires up his lightsaber while standing over the sleeping teenage Ben Solo is great as a pivot point for that relationship **except** for how badly that matches with the character of the younger Luke Skywalker. Think about it; this is the person who gave himself up to the Empire just so he could save the father he didn’t know at all.
Something that happened suddenly, in the heat of a moment, preferably when Luke had to step in to save one of the other students, would have worked much better. Would have required more characters, though.
Well considering how inept the Jedi are, I don’t think this is actually all that unrealistic. I think though the idea is that all the copies have been lost except these originals.