Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
More Men Are Adopting the Mike Pence Rule, and Feminists Don’t Like It
No man in business or academia with an ounce of common sense is going to let himself be alone with a woman who isn’t his wife in the current social climate. A single allegation of inappropriate behavior — whether legitimate or not — can and will destroy a man’s career. This is the climate feminists have created as their movement morphed from demands for social equality into a litigious Cult of Man-Hatred and quest for political power.
Now, they’re angry (who am I kidding, feminists are always angry about everything and always lecturing men on how to behave) because men are unwilling to set themselves up as victims.
The New York Times reports that men are responding to the Cautionary Tale of Harvey Weinstein and others like it by avoiding their female colleagues, particularly those in a subordinate position. Instead of thinking about the discriminatory practices that allow Weinsteins to grow like persistent fungus, they’re making them an even bigger feature of the workplace. Men fear being accused of sexual harassment, because it would ruin their lives.
Boo freaking hoo. You know what else doesn’t leave you? Being held back in your career because your manager is too scared to make eye contact with you because he’s afraid you’re gonna tell some story about how he harassed you. Or he might feel compelled to grab your boobies, and then he’d lose his job! You did this, Woman.
Yes, actually, you did. It were feminists what demanded that men should be presumed guilty even if proven innocent. It were Feminists what created the concept of “The Male Gaze;” the idea that even looking at a woman is a form of rape. It’s not the cautionary tale of Harvey Weinstein men are responding to; it’s the word-of-mouth and internet-shared anecdotes of what men are experiencing in the real-world; stories the media won’t cover because they don’t fit the Narrative. But everyone knows someone who was accused of something by a female co-worker or colleague, or has at least heard stories about such things.
Let’s face it; for some women, falsely accusing men of bad behavior is a resume enhancer. If it weren’t for false accusations, Mattress Girl would be doing her bondage act in a seedy strip club instead of a Fancy Pants Art Museum.
Published in Culture
Yup. Abusive people will abuse anyone they can get away with abusing. And they weaponize the norms and rules (chivalry, domestic violence law) put in place to protect actual victims.
Lets not leave out desperate people. Its kind of like lifeguarding. A drowning person will try and climb up the rescuer, or anybody who happens to be nearby to try and get that next breath of air, so you have to approach carefully.
I think the Pence rule is prudent if you’re in a position (or expect to someday be in a position) where you know false claims of improper behavior are likely. If you’re in some position of authority or are a public figure, for example, it’s a case of better safe than sorry. That said, I think there’s a real down side. It removes the opportunity to establish trust. Trust isn’t just given, it has to be earned. I know that I can trust that my female co-workers aren’t going to make false accusations or act inappropriately because we’ve spent enough time together to know each other well. Likewise they can trust me in the same way. I once spent 16 hours in a car alone with my (female) manager driving down to one of our facilities in Georgia and back. I doubt either of us thought twice about it (I know I didn’t) because that trust had been established.
I don’t understand this comment in this context. Who’s the “desperate” person and who’s the “rescuer” in this scenario?
Women are too predatory these days. It’s not just in America. It’s that way everywhere in the world I’ve been. Has it always been that way (I’m only 37)?
Just FWIW – there wasn’t a source for the quote in the post. It’s Missing the Point of Sexual Harassment Stories by a Mile, Scared Men Are Now Wary Of Being Alone With Women by Aimée Lutkin.
Also, as to her saying:
Well boo freaking hoo – it’s not our job to risk our careers just so that you’ll have a better chance of advancing yours. If you don’t like it if the men you work with won’t have one on one encounters with you outside the workplace, that’s your problem. Individuals (and yes, that includes men) have the right to choose with whom and under what conditions they choose to socialize. Feminists claim they’re pursuing equal rights, but if they think that they’re entitled to dictate what choices men make, then they’re revealing pretty clearly that that’s not what they’re really after.
I don’t think that is why Pence does it. Removing temptation is the best way to guard against actions you will regret later.
Making up your mind that you will be clean requires steps to assure you live up to your own ideals.
What business actually requires only two people are in a room together with the doors closed anyway? There is always room for three.
Having three people in every discussion should in no way effect a woman, or a man’s opportunity for advancement. It is common sense.
How could being in a room alone with a man possibly advance a career any better than three in a room?
After many years in construction, I’ve learned that the way you keep accidents from happening is by staying away from situations that can cause accidents.
Small business. Adding another person to a meeting when the company is only a handful of people is ridiculously inefficient and a huge burden. It’s inefficient for big business too, but big business tends to overallocate to management anyways.
A small businessman like me is going to avoid any situation that could comprise himself, and isn’t going to throw more people at the situation without a productive reason.
No, it hasn’t. (I’m only 87). My view:
Men are by nature predatory; Women are by nature selective. Before strident feminism, what worked was that young women would join in cooperative groups protecting each other from the inevitable insincere/immature males. Romance could then ensue.
ca. 1960, Something Happened – The Pill; Gloria Steinem, et al – women start behaving like men.
This put women in competition with one another, replacing the cooperation they had before. What then ensued was a great loss of feminine modesty, compulsory (in their own minds) breast augmentation, the hookup culture, etc. The women that were losing in that competition could become predatory – being desperate was the old description.
Good summary. Women will never be the equals of men in some areas of life and vice versa. We need to grow up — but with feminism mixed in with Marxism it’s difficult.
Great comment, but, um, I have to say the most impressive thing is you’re “only” 87 and are commenting on Ricochet!
Great comment, but, um, I have to say the most impressive thing is you’re “only” 87 and are commenting on Ricochet! May we all be this sharp and tech savvy at 87! And may Ricochet last long enough to give us all the opportunity!
It happens, of course. I understand feeling that way based on what’s happened to you, and I’ve heard other horror stories. By the way, I once fired an employee for being disruptive and generally insane. I asked where she wanted me to send the severance check. She said, “If you think I’m telling you where I live after what YOU did to me…” I said “Fine, have it your way, no severance” and started walking away. She called after me “wait wait wait!” So I guess she was crazy but not crazy enough to turn down cash…
This should only be a problem if there’s a woman along on the trip that you don’t invite to join you. If there are multiple guys and one woman, the Pence Rule is satisfied. Of course, if you go out for dinner with a male colleague and not with a female colleague you are guilty of discrimination.
You mean 3 adults or mixed company? Because two adults and tangos is the issue being avoided.
And you are confident that you know everyone of those colleagues so well that you don’t have to worry about a false accusation? ‘Cause if it happens, it’s going to be a problem.
I resemble that remark. And I’m too unimportant to be worth destroying, except maybe as sport.
That is the issue. It is not always about power. Maybe usually not about power. Some of the people I have seen it done to had little if any power. But still the lady was offended and the guy removed.
I was being a little jokey, that as long as the 2 are emotionally adults, you shouldn’t have any problems. but yes, 3 people minimum required for every meeting of mixed company.
That’s beautiful, man.
Sorry. The only thing I hate worse than having to explain a joke is being *that guy* who has to have the joke explained to him.