And Then They Came for Ken Burns?

 

Sounds a bit ridiculous, right? Noted filmmaker and creator of the highly-praised documentary The Civil War. Liberal Ken Burns. Darling of PBS.

I hesitated to start this conversation because 1) I hardly ever start conversations, and 2) I’m not an expert on the documentary, although I’ve certainly seen all of it, some more than once. I remember that it was extremely well-done, and that one of the reasons that it struck a chord was that it projected humanity. We learned about the bloody, needless struggle, and we learned about slavery, but we also learned about the people on both sides of the conflict. And, while I have no recollection that Burns was “soft” on the South, I also don’t recall vitriol and outright, severe condemnation. There was even, I think, a degree of sympathy for some portrayed.

It’s been awhile, so perhaps I’m just wrong. For the record, the “25th Anniversary Edition” came out a couple of years ago. Do others share my recollection? Is there a remote chance that one day a “reassessment” may be self-imposed or demanded? And, yes, I chose the original VHS box as an image because of its portrayal of the flags, not to be inflammatory, but to show our changes.

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  1. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    Sherman shared Grant’s opinion of Thomas, and they were both full of beans. Not only did Thomas rescue the Army of the Cumberland at Chickamauga, he crushed John Bell Hood’s Army of Tennessee despite being treated like a red-haired stepchild by both of them.

    Thomas also held Chattanooga after Chickamauga, and on the final day of the Battle of Chattanooga commanded the troops who pulled Sherman’s chestnuts out of the fire on what was probably the day Sherman put in his worst battlefield performance of the Civil War.

    The Rock of Chickamauga and the Sledge of Nashville.

    Seawriter

    Poor George probably got into trouble for Chattanooga too. That was supposed to be a demonstration. Thomas demonstrated right over the center of Missionary Ridge.

    • #61
  2. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    Shelby Foote was the best part of Ken Burns’ “Civil War.” I can close my eyes and hear him say, “They marched up the Emmitsburg Road.”

    • #62
  3. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    At the same time the author portrayed Longstreet’s failure to move his army with alacrity as some act of prophetic brilliance, rather than the churlishness it was. It would be wrong to blame the loss at Gettysburg on Longstreet as many have tried, but he certainly didn’t help matters at all.

    I blame the loss at Gettysburg on Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain.

    A hat tip to George Armstrong Custer?

    Grudgingly granted, Little Big Horn wipes out all previous attaboys as far as I’m concerned.

    • #63
  4. Mountie Coolidge
    Mountie
    @Mountie

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    Perhaps, @ seawriter can flesh out what Foote was thinking regarding Forrest. I’m too lazy and the stuff I have read is not very convincing. Foote wouldn’t have said that I’m sure if it wasn’t true — and I’m always interested in the nuance and details that @ seawriter provides from his fertile big brain and memory.

    Forrest was probably the best cavalry officer of the Civil War. He did so many brilliant things with cavalry it is hard to list them all. He appears prominently in my upcoming book on the Nashville campaign where he launched a raid that blockaded the Tennessee River, captured several Union riverboats, played naval officer for a few days and then burned down the depot town of Johnsonville – from across the river.

    What made this more remarkable was Forrest was entirely self-taught as a cavalryman. He had no experience with the military before the war, and very little formal education. Yes. He was a genius in that sense.

    He was also a disgusting human being. A slave trader who saw nothing wrong with buying and selling human beings. Responsible for the Fort Pillow Massacre. Founded the Klan after the Civil War. After I wrote my book about Grierson’s Raid, I considered doing a book about Streight’s Raid as a kind of bookend. Abel Streight did about everything wrong that Grierson did right. I decided against it because Forrest ends up the “hero” of the story. Maybe someday. Or maybe I do a new book about both raids doing a compare and contrast.

    Seawriter

    Andrew Lytle wrote  what is probably the most sympathtic book about Forrest with his Nathen Bedford Forrest and his Critter Company

    Written in 1931 Lytle still had survivors of Forrest’s command alive to interview and equally interesting was that much of Mississippi and North Alabama was in its Civil War state: the dirt roads were still dirt roads and the farms where he camped were still farms. Lytle walked and covered the trails that Forrest and his cavalry rode on.

    I read the book about 20 years ago. It was a sympathtic treatment of the man but even still you come away with the understanding that he, like Sherman, Jackson  and Grant, utilized the violence of war to the extreme.

    • #64
  5. Hammer, The Inactive
    Hammer, The
    @RyanM

    kylez (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    Quite frankly, if they come for Ken Burns, let them at him. It is an instance of the left eating one of their own, and I hope they devour him entirely.

    His documentaries are half-interesting, the other half left-wing propaganda, and he is a smug, self-righteous liberal. If the man never makes another crappy documentary again, it will be too soon.

    Maybe they’ve gotten worse. His earlier stuff is really well-done and interesting, including CW. I recently watched all of his Lewis and Clark on Youtube, which I recommend.

    Baseball irritated the crap out of me. A good percentage of it was spent on leftist “racist America” tropes.  That isn’t all I disliked about it, as a baseball fan.

    • #65
  6. Gumby Mark Coolidge
    Gumby Mark
    @GumbyMark

    Percival (View Comment):

    Randal H (View Comment):
    Most of the criticism I saw aimed at Burns and his Civil War documentary was due to his heavy reliance on Shelby Foote. I don’t know that much about Foote’s scholarship, but I think his heavy drawl left some people feeling Burns may have been influenced to be too even-handed in telling the story. That’s not my opinion, but I’ve seen it written.

    It might be a good idea to get hold of a copy of the documentary in case it suddenly disappears from the market due to insufficient adherence to orthodoxy.

    He relied on Ed Bearss too. I didn’t detect Foote being any more sympathetic than any other historian who knows his topic.

    Next they’ll be accusing Victor Davis Hanson of being a closet Spartan.

    Originally, Bearss was to have a larger presence in the documentary but Foote was so captivating and well-spoken that his role was expanded and Bearss’ cut back.  I’ve been on battlefield tours with Bearss and walking the Cornfield at Antietam with him for three hours on a hot, humid Maryland day is like listening to a Homeric bard reciting the Illiad; an amazing experience but a style not nearly as well-suited for TV as that of Foote.

    A favorite Bearss memory: walking The Crater at Petersburg with the 91 year old Bearss yelling at us (the man’s voice still cut through everything) to keep up with him and warning, “stragglers will be shot“.

    • #66
  7. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    At the same time the author portrayed Longstreet’s failure to move his army with alacrity as some act of prophetic brilliance, rather than the churlishness it was. It would be wrong to blame the loss at Gettysburg on Longstreet as many have tried, but he certainly didn’t help matters at all.

    I blame the loss at Gettysburg on Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain.

    A hat tip to George Armstrong Custer?

    Is this question from: Lost Triumph: Lee’s Real Plan at Gettysburg and Why It Failed?

    • #67
  8. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    At the same time the author portrayed Longstreet’s failure to move his army with alacrity as some act of prophetic brilliance, rather than the churlishness it was. It would be wrong to blame the loss at Gettysburg on Longstreet as many have tried, but he certainly didn’t help matters at all.

    I blame the loss at Gettysburg on Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain.

    A hat tip to George Armstrong Custer?

    Is this question from: Lost Triumph: Lee’s Real Plan at Gettysburg and Why It Failed?

    No, only from my rather shallow knowledge of the battle and the fact that Custer’s actions (he was 23 at the time) in stopping Jeb Stuart prior to Pickett’s charge were critical.  I’m going to look into that book though.

     

    • #68
  9. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    At the same time the author portrayed Longstreet’s failure to move his army with alacrity as some act of prophetic brilliance, rather than the churlishness it was. It would be wrong to blame the loss at Gettysburg on Longstreet as many have tried, but he certainly didn’t help matters at all.

    I blame the loss at Gettysburg on Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain.

    A hat tip to George Armstrong Custer?

    Is this question from: Lost Triumph: Lee’s Real Plan at Gettysburg and Why It Failed?

    No, only from my rather shallow knowledge of the battle and the fact that Custer’s actions (he was 23 at the time) in stopping Jeb Stuart prior to Pickett’s charge were critical. I’m going to look into that book though.

    I think you’ll like the book a lot.

    @seawriter if I asked this before please forgive me but could you comment on this book?

    • #69
  10. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    I think you’ll like the book a lot.

    @seawriter if I asked this before please forgive me but could you comment on this book?

    Haven’t read it.

    Seawriter

    • #70
  11. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    I think you’ll like the book a lot.

    @seawriter if I asked this before please forgive me but could you comment on this book?

    Haven’t read it.

    Seawriter

    Do you know of the claims in it? That Custer foiled JEB’s pincer move.

    • #71
  12. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    I think you’ll like the book a lot.

    @seawriter if I asked this before please forgive me but could you comment on this book?

    Haven’t read it.

    Seawriter

    Do you know of the claims in it? That Custer foiled JEB’s pincer move.

    I have heard of them, but cannot evaluate them without reading the book. I may get a chance some time.

    Seawriter

    • #72
  13. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    I think you’ll like the book a lot.

    @seawriter if I asked this before please forgive me but could you comment on this book?

    Haven’t read it.

    Seawriter

    Do you know of the claims in it? That Custer foiled JEB’s pincer move.

    I’m not sure that’s in doubt, although I don’t know enough about the strategy to be convincing.  Isn’t it pretty well established that Custer and his Wolverines turned back Stuart at a key point?

     

    • #73
  14. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    I think you’ll like the book a lot.

    @seawriter if I asked this before please forgive me but could you comment on this book?

    Haven’t read it.

    Seawriter

    Do you know of the claims in it? That Custer foiled JEB’s pincer move.

    I’m not sure that’s in doubt, although I don’t know enough about the strategy to be convincing. Isn’t it pretty well established that Custer and his Wolverines turned back Stuart at a key point?

    Here is a pretty good article on the action behind the Union force. Stuart was late, and by his own admission, his mounts were tired. That is not much of a surprise since he had only returned to Lee the day before.

    • #74
  15. APW Inactive
    APW
    @APW

    All this what I consider unfortunate nonsense makes me love this Nation even more. Not for what it is NOW, which is like a black hole of DUMB, but for what it has gone through. The sweet innocent lives lost crushed slaughtered by its OWN hand. It’s like the peacefulness and poignancy that you get attending a Funeral. These currant inane reckless Vile Bodies are just that. On the brighter side, there ain’t one. I weep and keep it quiet.

    • #75
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