VDH on DJT

 

For those of us who are not followers of National Review, NRO currently has a fascinating article titled “The Endless Ironies of Donald J. Trump” by Victor Davis Hanson, as sensible a commentator as can be found anywhere. I don’t recall whether he was a never, or a reluctant Trumper, but his current observations are really a must-read. His concluding paragraphs:

Never have so many bright people proved so dense. Never have polls and politics proved so unreliable or partisan. Never have unintended consequences so replaced predictable results.

Yes, we are in chaos, but we sense also that the pandemonium is purgative of the worse that prompted it — and it is unpleasant mostly because it has so long been overdue.

Read the whole thing.

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  1. BD1 Member
    BD1
    @

    Victor Davis Hanson: “I know that I thought I knew people at the National Review.  I’ve been writing there for fourteen years.  And then I would read things and I could not believe it….It wasn’t that I disagreed with them or they disagreed with me.  It was the level of venom and condescension.”

    • #31
  2. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    Donald Trump is who George W. Bush could have — and should have — been.

    • #32
  3. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):
    In my opinion Cruz could not have won.

    Strongly agree. I cannot imagine any other Republican withstanding the barrage Trump takes daily. I think he’s the only one who could take down the Democrat machine.

    • #33
  4. Chris O. Coolidge
    Chris O.
    @ChrisO

    Jim Beck (View Comment):
    What did some of the early supporters see which I did not? VDH has often compared Trump to a Sampson, not laser surgery but more like a hacksaw and cauterize. When did you choose Trump, I chose Trump after Walker, Rubio, and Cruz ran out of gas.

    I wasn’t fully in the Trump camp until Rubio was out, but both my wife and I supported his being in the contest and applauded his victories. What did we see? Someone talking about issues no one else touched and were not prepared to address. Moreover, there was some vision, as opposed to simply staking out positions. It’s a hard question to answer now because so much has happened. Luckily, I wrote about it during the campaign.

    • #34
  5. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Tomorrow is Trump’s birthday.  And flag day–how appropriate.

    What did I see in him? I had just assumed the GOP nominee would be Jeb Bush.  I really never got too excited about the election season before; there didn’t really seem to be much contrast. But Trump became so dominant,  so fast–it would’ve been like ignoring a comet.

    I loved the story he used to tell, that Melania said to him, “You know if you run for president, you will win.”

    And then I realized I agreed with everything he said.

    It didn’t seem possible he could win–and yet..there he stood, the front runner’ s central podium in every debate.  And  then: the primaries!

    Tomorrow is two years since he came down the golden escalator and declared his candidacy. Which was treated like a joke.  Every step of the way for him has been subject to ridicule, personal abuse, scorn–and gross underestimation of his abilities.

    I wish him a happy birthday tomorrow, and success in making America great again.

     

    • #35
  6. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher
    Goldwaterwoman
    @goldwaterwoman

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    Yes, I think I started to understand a great movement was underway when Trump won South Carolina and did better than Cruz with the evangelicals. That astounded me — it shows that these people are not prudes and not doctrinaire purists but people with their feet on the ground and also determined to make a change in this country. God bless them all for helping me understand what was going on and feeling the ground shift beneath my feet.

    One of my closest friends and my cousin, both staunch evangelicals, were early Trump supporters and never looked back, even when the audio tape came out. When I asked them why weren’t they Cruz supporters, they both said they thought Cruz’s Bible was a prop and considered him to be a hypocrite. Trump, they said, was genuine and unafraid to tell it like it is. I was astounded.

    • #36
  7. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Jim Beck (View Comment):
    Afternoon Larry,

    I can understand the Never Trumpers, but I do not understand what appealed or changed the minds of the evangelicals or other folks who were early supporters. Do you think that folks were so disappointed with Republican politicians that they went to Trump as the only completely non-politician. I did not imagine Trump would win but I am delighted by many of the things he has said, and done. Trump’s cringe-worthy behavior, or just as likely his low brow status causes his opponents to expose the true nature of their ugly, irrational hearts, for this he is not just a dose of Miralax but he is the colonoscopy which lights up the cancerous polyps which have been hidden from normal view, and if for no other reason he has been irreplaceable. What did some of the early supporters see which I did not? VDH has often compared Trump to a Sampson, not laser surgery but more like a hacksaw and cauterize. When did you choose Trump, I chose Trump after Walker, Rubio, and Cruz ran out of gas.

    Yes, me too. I stayed with Cruz to the very end.

    But, I was already a begrudging admirer of Trump because of who his enemies were (are). So, it was easy to support him.

    I’m with Rush Limbaugh: I got into this to defeat the commies on the left. The GOP leaders were getting out of that business fast and were busy creating little dark age caves to last through the famine. They make me sick. Trump just came out of nowhere. God bless him.

    I speak only for my own thoughts, but what I thought I saw and still see is a manifestation of the Christian concept of ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’ that led so many to overcome the pretentious objections leveled at Trump, focused on his personality and behavior, by those who denounced his supporters.

    I arrived here by almost exactly the path described by Larry.

    • #37
  8. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    As an evangelical myself, I see the Trump phenomenon as a result of the constant bashing and hate that Christians took under Obama. It was cute for awhile but when Christians started being persecuted by having their jobs and businesses taken from them, there was an emotional response and that is Trumps basic weapon. He is after all a Democrat in his soul. He just wants power and he knows how to use people’s emotions to get it. Fortunately, at the moment, he is listening to conservative voices. There is plenty of evidence that those winds can change in an instant (see his recent rambling on healthcare).

    If he continues to act the fool and poke conservatives instead of the Rino’s, Trump will quickly exhaust everyone to the real fight and be a permanent straw man against true conservative beliefs. I like much of what he’s done but why does he have to be such an idiot?

    • #38
  9. Jim Beck Inactive
    Jim Beck
    @JimBeck

    Morning Chris,

    I am gathering from your link where you note how you came to support Trump that you are a Hoosier, I am as well.  Also I was a Walker fan and sent him money, that money evaporated as fast as his campaign.  You mention policy clarity and focus as some of the aspects of Trump which you liked, I did/do like his positions but its was his blunt criticism of the status quo and his love of country and optimism for the future which was even more appealing than his policies.  Even though my expectations for Trump’s policies were low, he has proven as VDH pointed out to be in his policies the most conservative president since Reagan.  However unlike any other Republican president in my near 70 years, perhaps ever, Trump exposes conservatives who are more statists than conservative (as I would define conservative). These conservatives thought that Clinton was preferable because she was within the “normal” parameters of politicians and that Trump was so outside those parameters that he was unacceptable.  Those conservatives include many who I had thought were allies, I consider that many are really opponents.

    • #39
  10. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    why does he have to be such an idiot?

    There is no evidence at all that he’s an idiot. Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States. You need to think about why you feel it’s so important to virtue signal like this.

    • #40
  11. Owen Findy Inactive
    Owen Findy
    @OwenFindy

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    Still too early to tell.

    I agree. Certainty by either side is unwarranted.

    • #41
  12. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    why does he have to be such an idiot?

    There is no evidence at all that he’s an idiot. Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States. You need to think about why you feel it’s so important to virtue signal like this.

    First, in my view, anyone who has ever heard Trump talk could be forgiven if the term idiot crossed their mind.  I don’t think he’s an idiot, but he does tend to give that impression from time to time.

    Second, I don’t think you can say that “Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States.”  I offer you Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama.

    Third, criticizing Trump is not necessarily virtue signaling.  You are correct that it CAN be.  But some people criticize him because they disagree with him about something, or they don’t care for him – not because they are trying to appear virtuous.

    • #42
  13. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Owen Findy (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    Still too early to tell.

    I agree. Certainty by either side is unwarranted.

    I agree with this. I also take the position that Trump has been elected our President and must be judged on his performance.

    • #43
  14. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    why does he have to be such an idiot?

    There is no evidence at all that he’s an idiot. Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States. You need to think about why you feel it’s so important to virtue signal like this.

    First, in my view, anyone who has ever heard Trump talk could be forgiven if the term idiot crossed their mind. I don’t think he’s an idiot, but he does tend to give that impression from time to time.

    I love his talk and the way he talks. I’ve been in the real world for a long time and he sounds like a lot of people. Now, if the idiot term is reserved for people who don’t talk like regular politicians then that’s your problem.

    Second, I don’t think you can say that “Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States.” I offer you Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama.

    You misunderstand me — Those people all had the Democratic Party and the media behind them. So, they hardly ran over the whole political establishment.

    Third, criticizing Trump is not necessarily virtue signaling. You are correct that it CAN be. But some people criticize him because they disagree with him about something, or they don’t care for him – not because they are trying to appear virtuous.

    The term idiot is used to show your low opinion of Trump as a person who can’t think very well and does stupid things regularly. Trump is not an idiot and pretending that he is shows more about the person who thinks so than Trump.

    • #44
  15. Chris O. Coolidge
    Chris O.
    @ChrisO

    Jim Beck (View Comment):
    optimism for the future which was even more appealing than his policies

    Couldn’t agree more. We certainly didn’t hear anything like that from anyone else on a consistent basis or as a campaign theme. Thanks, Jim.

    • #45
  16. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    why does he have to be such an idiot?

    There is no evidence at all that he’s an idiot. Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States. You need to think about why you feel it’s so important to virtue signal like this.

    You have a much more elevated opinion of our establishment than I do.

    I keep reading this phrase “virtue signalling”. I don’t think it means what you think it does.

    • #46
  17. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Owen Findy (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    Still too early to tell.

    I agree. Certainty by either side is unwarranted.

    This is such a cop-out: a straw man argument. There is no certainty in life, ever. This is not now, nor has it ever been, about certainty. In all aspects of life we make assessments about other people and about the future. We make our decisions with imperfect information.

    You will only find certainty in death. Those who wait for certainty in life are paralyzed into indecision and inaction. Life goes on around them.

    • #47
  18. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    Owen Findy (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):
    Still too early to tell.

    I agree. Certainty by either side is unwarranted.

    It’s important to keep in mind that the Democrats gained 27 House seats in 1982.

    • #48
  19. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    why does he have to be such an idiot?

    There is no evidence at all that he’s an idiot. Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States. You need to think about why you feel it’s so important to virtue signal like this.

    Trump is a giant monster truck. We are at the rally, let’s help him run over and crush more of the true idiocy in this nation.

     

    • #49
  20. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    why does he have to be such an idiot?

    There is no evidence at all that he’s an idiot. Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States. You need to think about why you feel it’s so important to virtue signal like this.

    First, in my view, anyone who has ever heard Trump talk could be forgiven if the term idiot crossed their mind. I don’t think he’s an idiot, but he does tend to give that impression from time to time.

    I love his talk and the way he talks. I’ve been in the real world for a long time and he sounds like a lot of people. Now, if the idiot term is reserved for people who don’t talk like regular politicians then that’s your problem.

    Second, I don’t think you can say that “Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States.” I offer you Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama.

    You misunderstand me — Those people all had the Democratic Party and the media behind them. So, they hardly ran over the whole political establishment.

    Third, criticizing Trump is not necessarily virtue signaling. You are correct that it CAN be. But some people criticize him because they disagree with him about something, or they don’t care for him – not because they are trying to appear virtuous.

    The term idiot is used to show your low opinion of Trump as a person who can’t think very well and does stupid things regularly. Trump is not an idiot and pretending that he is shows more about the person who thinks so than Trump.

    First, I think you’re making too much of this and should reconsider making personal judgements based on one off hand comment–any more than I’d be inclined to make personal judgments about the apparent thin skins of the the Trump advocates here.  Second, although I’m not inclined to denigrate a President with pejoratives like “idiot,” there is chapter and verse already indicating that he has done some stupid things.

    • #50
  21. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    why does he have to be such an idiot?

    There is no evidence at all that he’s an idiot. Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States. You need to think about why you feel it’s so important to virtue signal like this.

    First, in my view, anyone who has ever heard Trump talk could be forgiven if the term idiot crossed their mind. I don’t think he’s an idiot, but he does tend to give that impression from time to time.

    I love his talk and the way he talks. I’ve been in the real world for a long time and he sounds like a lot of people. Now, if the idiot term is reserved for people who don’t talk like regular politicians then that’s your problem.

    Second, I don’t think you can say that “Idiots don’t run over the whole political establishment in a country like the United States.” I offer you Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama.

    You misunderstand me — Those people all had the Democratic Party and the media behind them. So, they hardly ran over the whole political establishment.

    Third, criticizing Trump is not necessarily virtue signaling. You are correct that it CAN be. But some people criticize him because they disagree with him about something, or they don’t care for him – not because they are trying to appear virtuous.

    The term idiot is used to show your low opinion of Trump as a person who can’t think very well and does stupid things regularly. Trump is not an idiot and pretending that he is shows more about the person who thinks so than Trump.

    First, I think you’re making too much of this and should reconsider making personal judgements based on one off hand comment–any more than I’d be inclined to make personal judgments about the apparent thin skins of the the Trump advocates here. Second, although I’m not inclined to denigrate a President with pejoratives like “idiot,” there is chapter and verse already indicating that he has done some stupid things.

    “Thin skins”?  ????????! If Trump, or any of his supporters, had thin skins

    we’d be flayed bloody by now!

    • #51
  22. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Hypatia (View Comment):“Thin skins”? ????????! If Trump, or any of his supporters, had thin skins

    we’d be flayed bloody by now!

    I prefer keelhauling!

    • #52
  23. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Before getting too far away from the excellent VDH article, it’s worth quoting one of his more prescient comments:

    “Rather, their worry is more tactical and strategic: Trump, the bull-in-the-china-shop messenger, breaks up too much of the vital message of Trump.”

    But that’s only what “country-club Republicans” think.  Right?

    • #53
  24. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    Before getting too far away from the excellent VDH article, it’s worth quoting one of his more prescient comments:

    “Rather, their worry is more tactical and strategic: Trump, the bull-in-the-china-shop messenger, breaks up too much of the vital message of Trump.”

    But that’s only what “country-club Republicans” think. Right?

    Hardly. That’s what all the media thinks and all the Dems think, too. They are in great company.

    • #54
  25. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    Second, although I’m not inclined to denigrate a President with pejoratives like “idiot,” there is chapter and verse already indicating that he has done some stupid things.

    Wow – does that make him an idiot? Hardly.

    Also, your chapter and verse is not my chapter and verse. I work from a different play book with different chapters and very different verses.

    • #55
  26. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Come on National Review cruises and talk to him all you want and perhaps even dine with him one night.

    • #56
  27. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    EHerring (View Comment):
    Come on National Review cruises and talk to him all you want and perhaps even dine with him one night.

    Not a chance — for every VDH there are 5 NTs.

    • #57
  28. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    EHerring (View Comment):
    Come on National Review cruises and talk to him all you want and perhaps even dine with him one night.

    Not a chance — for every VDH there are 5 NTs.

    Confused.  You listen to the podcasts here but don’t want to talk to them in person?  They are great to talk to.

    • #58
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