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On Faith
I have been a skeptic for as long as I remember. In junior high, I was the child who asked the assistant minister those difficult questions. I wasn’t trying to be a smart aleck. I was trying to get my head around those unfathomable questions, the whys of faith, trying to true up a teenager’s reality with teachings that seemed to be both the result of selective historical memory and of exaggeration, if not outright fiction. My questions never received proper answers. It came down to faith; that is acceptance of the implausible. When I asked why I should accept these things on faith alone, I was told that faith was not a matter of should, but must.
That answer, the must, seemed to me to be a reflection of the old, jealous, vindictive, and unpredictable God of the Old Testament. That did not seem to square with the teachings of the New Testament, with its stories of good Samaritans and charity toward all. The New Testament God, the God of infinite grace, would never condemn the souls of the kind and innocent but un-indoctrinated masses. This demand for Faith seemed to me to be superfluous and even coercive, a demand for alliance and support. I rejected it. I would not be coerced.
But that was not all. There was also the issue of obedience. Much as the clergy might try to convince me that their concern in this transaction was the future of my immortal soul, I could not help but believe that it was not my soul they were ultimately concerned with. Others might call it arrogance, vanity or hard-headedness, but I couldn’t seem to subrogate the moral superiority of affirmed mystics over my own perceptions, even if those demanding my allegiance were truly excellent and decent human beings.
I decided that I could accept the wisdom and morality informed by the New Testament while remaining highly skeptical of the more implausible parts. The story of Jesus itself then became a parable of love and sacrifice; I had no need for explanation of its inconsistencies or when it strayed from reality. I could acknowledge that the Gospel accounts were selected among many similar writings; they were subject to translation and retranslation and they may well have been exaggerated. Moreover, if I accepted the idea of human frailty, my own inherent flaws, and tried to live a decent and moral life, the question of my mortal soul became irrelevant. Living a good, decent and moral life was enough. The idea of immortality was rendered irrelevant and unnecessary; Faith itself was irrelevant and unnecessary.
Am I then, a Christian? Christ’s teachings and story inform and guide my life yet I remain a skeptic, a person who believes that if Faith is something that someone must have to be a Christian, then I have failed that test. I do not reject religion, so I am not an atheist. I sympathize with William James’ inability to rationalize the existence of God, yet I am not an agnostic. And yes, I pray sometimes, for wisdom, patience, clarity and for others, while I also acknowledge that this practice may also be irrelevant and unnecessary. But somehow it helps me and I still think it is good.
Published in Religion & Philosophy
Jesus compared Hell to Gehenna. Yes, it was a garbage dump. But the fire was “eternal” in the sense that it burned always. The trash might be consumed, but the fire did not go out. And eternal damnation is a Biblical concept, not a theological extrapolation centuries later.
The Greek concept of Hades is closest to Hell before Christ’s death and resurrection. Like Sheol, it was basically a place of holding and imagined as an underworld.
That is a useful image in relation to the concept of Heaven as a place where the light of God flourishes. Hell was darkness — a spiritual darkness — from which Jesus saved many.
There are many misconceptions about the early Church, the nature of doctrine, and the Bible which can be clarified by research into the earliest Christian writings and histories. Reason and faith both properly point to truth and so should not contradict. If they do, keep digging.
Isn’t this much better than politics?
Sometimes, DK, it can be hard to tell the difference…But not this time. :-)
The Bible is a collection of writings that describe the personal relationship between G-d and humankind over many many generations. It is biography, genealogy, history, poetry, and literature (not an exhaustive list, just what came to mind) It is the “flashlight” we need to navigate the darkness, deception, and obstacles of this material world.
The One G-d who is infinitely steadfast is the basis and foundation for faith.
Psalm 23
The LORD is my Shepherd….
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life.
I think there is enough here to support that idea, but it is not so definitive. There is not much in the way of a direct reference to the modern concept of hell in the Gospels, except for Revelations, which is very difficult to discern. I know that Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists and Anglicans posit that Christ visited hell prior to his rising, though many scholars point to the imprecise language, Greek, used in these descriptions which may point to another place of the dead, not necessarily the punitive Hell. This makes some sense. How could there be a Hell for non-believers who predate Christ? They had no opportunity to know Him. In any case, I’m not quite so sure that Hell is the eternal sufurous fire described in John’s Revelations.
Tough questions are not just for people who lack faith. Those who believe also probe the difficult truths of the Bible.
This is a serious misunderstanding of the revelation about God presented in the Old and New Testaments.
The God of the Old Testament showed mercy to Adam and Eve when they sinned and earned his wrath. He had mercy on the Israelites and brought them out of slavery and gave them a homeland. They constantly rebelled, yet He continued to show mercy. Yes, he also disciplined them and punished, but the punishment is deserved. Mercy is an act of grace.
In the New Testament, Jesus regularly warns of punishment in hell. Hell tends to be pushed aside. Yes, the New Testament uses a Greek word to name hell, but that is only a name. The fate of the unrepentant is also described: eternal fire, eternal punishment, the lake of fire and sulfur, eternal destruction, outer darkness.
I can’t speak for the motives of your teachers, but the Bible was written with much concern for the status of your soul.
James 5:20
20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matthew 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 16:26
26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
Luke 12:20
20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’
The Bible does not offer this as a reasonable option. What is the purpose of Christ’s sacrifice if he is only a moral teacher?
1 Corinthians 15:17-19
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
This misrepresents the history of the text of the Bible. Almost all translations are translated from very well documented Greek and Hebrew texts. These texts were known to the church when they were written and passed down. The official list of canonical books was not selected arbitrarily.
This starts off in the right direction, but becomes contradictory. The Bible does teach us about our own flaws. It does this not for us to dismiss our flaws but so that we understand we are flawed. Teaching of the law in the New Testament often shows us where the laws given through Moses are even more difficult than we understood and we all fall short. With everyone falling short, it does not mean that it doesn’t matter. It means we must depend on God for redemption. Jesus repeatedly calls for repentance and trusting in in him to save our souls. That is exceedingly relevant.
Sadly, no. You are not a Christian. As you point out in a later comment, many who claim His name are not Christians. Christ told us it would be this way.
However, it is not too late. You suspect your prayers are irrelevant and unnecessary. Don’t think of what you can do through prayer. Think of God. You do not need to rationalize his existence. We are given a limited, but sufficient knowledge of God from the Bible. You acknowledge that you are limited and flawed. Accept that you cannot fully understand a limitless, perfect God. Even with our flaws, God offers a way to be with him in eternity. It is through repentance and trusting in him for salvation.
Revelation has a lot of imagery about events of the end times, but Hell is described more often throughout the gospels, in Christ’s words, than anywhere else. Revelation actually contains some of the most beautiful descriptions of eternal life with God after the final judgement. People get hung up on the middle and miss the glory of the ending.
As for how there could be hell for people who predate Christ’s incarnation, Romans 1 leaves no room for excuses.
Romans 1:18-25
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
I do not believe that the texts selected were arbitrary. However since that time other texts have been discovered (the Dead Sea scrolls and others) adding to the early Christian chronicles. I wonder if those texts provide any additional insights into the life of Jesus.
First, I made no claims. And I will always admit that a limitless, perfect God is beyond my grasp. So, I’m partway there.
Also, a point that a former pastor of ours used to make is that God’s punishment for sin is often simply letting people live with the consequences of their sin, which they will do until they repent and turn back to him, which often takes…three or four generations. Imagine that!
The Dead Sea scrolls include some very old copies of Old Testament books. They actually confirm the accuracy of the scripture handed down through copies done by scribes. I think they include a gnostic gospel or two, also.
We get into these circular arguments. Repent, but from what? Original sin? My own transgressions and imperfections, which are many? I try very hard to avoid my worst inclinations and overcome my shortcomings every single day. Is that not repentance? Catholics have their confessional. Protestants pray together for forgiveness. These seem to me to be less sincere than actual effort every day. And what is starting to emerge here is something of a insecure God who requires constant affirmation, which I have difficult time believing. No, it is the church that is insecure and not God; the church must provide retail forgiveness and sell salvation, otherwise it loses its relevance. Jesus overturned the stalls of the moneychangers and sellers of animals for sacrifice at the Temple. What would he think of our megachurches and cathedrals? Would he be pleased? Would he embrace all these denominations and tell them, convinced as they are of their dogma, that they all have it right? He criticized his own faith. He preached to the masses, the unwashed; there was nothing rigid or formal about it. Somehow, I doubt he would affirm the teachings of all those so convinced of their interpretation and righteousness.
I’m a simple man. I am not one to read indirect meaning into words or to discern patterns that may, or may not, affirm certain assumptions about our basic understandings of Christianity. Either it is straight forward or not. If it is not, it may well be a parable meant to provide a moral lesson, but not a literal one. And if the interpretation, however derived, seems to make no logical sense within the context of my most intimate understanding of Christ, then I must reject it, no matter how vested others may be in its truth, because for me, it seems contrary and serves no logical purpose in affirming the essence of the message. It may serve a purpose in the advancement of the church, but not the purposes of, as Panda would say, the Master.
It is interesting to read some of those recovered Gospels—if only to reassure yourself that the original compilers of the canon did us all a big favor by including what they did, and excluding…some really weird stuff.
Doug is right to say that I’m really not all that concerned with immortality, my own or anyone else’s. I’m happy to just plain die (cease to be) and happy to live eternally; either way, I count myself as being in God’s hands.
While there are many doctrines I am willing to contemplate, I actually object to the doctrine of hell. We got into a very long argument thread about this last year, which was very good fun! Suffice it to say that I am a Universalist; the Good News is that no matter who you are, you are never separated from the love of God. We are all in God’s hands.
“In God’s hands” is a metaphor, as all religious language must be, even that which simply declares a fact, but this isn’t something to worry about. Instead, it’s the point.
Moreover, the fact that there are four Gospels included in the Bible, and more than one version of many stories in the Hebrew scripture, not to mention contradictions between and among these, tells me that the truth isn’t going to present itself as a simple declarative statement. Instead, there will be poetry and paradox that we have to work through together, in community and in conversation. Well, didn’t Jesus model doing exactly this? Haven’t Christians been doing this for generations? And isn’t this what Doug is doing, even as I write these words?
Incidentally, Doug, I’d be so interested (and pleased!) if you checked out my book Beginner’s Grace. This is not an attempt to convert you, but I hear from a lot of secular readers who said that it was pretty user-friendly and helped them understand what their religious friends and relations were nattering on about.
Kate’s mention of differing accounts in the Gospels reminds me that ‘eyewitness’ accounts differ anytime, anywhere…That adds to authenticity, doesn’t detract from it. Also, working through is what the sacred authors intended; with some guidance for context down the millennia…Encouraged by DK’s post, very much, actually. (And enjoyed the link to the short story, too.)
P.S. @dougkimball, Kate’s work is always conversational – not confrontational or dogmatic – and a wonderful read. Enjoy!
That is a part of it, yes. It is a change of heart. It is grieving for our sins against God and seeking to obey him.
“Catholics have their confessional. Protestants pray together for forgiveness. These seem to me to be less sincere than actual effort every day.”
Sincerity is difficult to prove. We are told that we will know the faithful by their fruit. That is connected to the “actual effort” you mention. This is a place where the often quoted “judge not…” should be applied. There are easy cases, for instance a murderer claims to repent yet goes on to murder again. More often it is less clear. None of us repent perfectly. We continue to sin until we are united with Christ after death, yet we should improve over time as God works in us.
“And what is starting to emerge here is something of a insecure God who requires constant affirmation, which I have difficult time believing. ”
I understand how it could seem that way. I think that comes from an incomplete understanding of our sinfulness and God’s holiness, how much we are separated from God because of our sins. It is not a need for affirmation, but God’s hatred of sin that requires the extraordinary means which he provided for salvation.
“No, it is the church that is insecure and not God; the church must provide retail forgiveness and sell salvation, otherwise it loses its relevance. Jesus overturned the stalls of the moneychangers and sellers of animals for sacrifice at the Temple. What would he think of our megachurches and cathedrals? Would he be pleased?”
Have you read the 95 thesis? Luther was responding to problems similar to what you describe here.
“Would he embrace all these denominations and tell them, convinced as they are of their dogma, that they all have it right? He criticized his own faith. He preached to the masses, the unwashed; there was nothing rigid or formal about it. Somehow, I doubt he would affirm the teachings of all those so convinced of their interpretation and righteousness.”
Much of Christ’s teaching was a rebuke to those who thought that they had achieved righteousness through the law. He taught that all had sinned, even those who were considered the most righteous among them. Those unwashed masses were largely people without self-righteousness. He offered salvation to those who knew they did not achieve for themselves. This is the “and trust in God for salvation” that accompanies the message of repentance. Understanding our failure to uphold the law is part of the message. The completion of it is that God provided salvation for us if we trust in him.
Something to consider along those lines. The main things are the plain things. The Bible is big and complicated in many ways, but the core message is pretty simple.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and patient responses. I appreciate you.
Thank you, Nanda!
I’m enjoying it. I hope you find it useful.
So Purgatory?
I wonder if the Restorationist Universalists (y’know, from the Great Restorationist Controversy of the mid-1800s?) had this in mind? The matter that the Blogs of the day (inexpensive newspapers and pamphlets) were consumed with: if everyone goes to Heaven, what about Hitler? Though of course, Hitler hadn’t come along yet, but Hitlerishness was the basic problem. What does God do with those really evil people? On one side were the pure Universalists (nope. Ya just go to heaven no matter who you are) and on the other, the Restorationists, who thought it more likely that there was an intermediate stage in which one could get one’s moral lug nuts tightened (so to speak) before rolling through the pearlies.
I like the idea of a celestial laundromat. I could use a few turns in the Whirlpool myself, maybe with a little bleach and a nice long rinse cycle?
I am rolling on the floor. Wonderfully fresh metaphors to me.
@kylez I think when we try to show relationships between words and phrases, extra things might be added in and others left out. I don’t know enough about purgatory, except that I think it is an in-between place before moving on. The only thing that comes to mind is that when a Jewish person dies, we say prayers for that person (and the Mourner’s Kaddish indefinitely) for a year so that he or she will move on to heaven. But I think that is more for the person saying the prayer than the person being prayed for. (Every time, as a returning Jew, I cringe a little, hoping I’m correct!) I don’t know that if a person doesn’t get enough prayers, he or she will be stuck!