So Wait, Ryan Doesn’t Have Any Responsibility Here?

 

So, I was reading Jonah Goldberg yesterday and he had this:

On Saturday morning, Trump placed the blame squarely on the House Freedom Caucus, the 30-odd members of Congress who reportedly kept changing their demands until it was clear they were never going to support the American Health Care Act. Nor is there a single quote from a member of Congress echoing this sentiment, even from the Freedom Caucus. The people in the room understand that Ryan, who clearly made some mistakes, nonetheless acted in good faith to move the president’s agenda. The Pirro crowd, however, can’t endorse the effort to blame the Freedom Caucus, because it’s the heir of True Conservatism. If Trump found himself in opposition to the group, it must be because he was tricked — by Ryan’s irresistible “swagger.”

The second point: Contrary to what Pirro says, she and the other members of Trump’s amen chorus did expect him to work miracles, or at least they said as much. Indeed, during the campaign, Trump said “it will be so easy” to get rid of Obamacare. Trump and his boosters insisted there was nothing he couldn’t do with his Jedi-like negotiating skills and gift for “winning.” So the only explanation that can rescue them from the agony of cognitive dissonance is to insist that Trump was betrayed. That’s why Hannity’s claim that Trump did “everything in his power” to get the bill passed is an accidental admission against interest. It concedes the falsity of the idea that Trump is a modern-day, omni-competent Cincinnatus who will lay down his golf bag to save the republic.

So my only two choices are to blame Trump or to blame Ryan, and if I am blaming Ryan I am avoiding the agony of cognitive dissonance? I feel rather set up here. Apparently, according to Mr. Goldberg, if I don’t put all the blame at the feet of Trump for the failure of this legislation, I am in thrall somehow to Trump.

I have to say that this is a fine example, a fine example, of what it is like to be spoken down too by my betters for supporting Trump. A caricature is built of a unreasonable person, a few people with extreme positions are picked to be spokespeople, and anyone supporting Trump, or feeling that the GOP in the House shares some blame is only avoiding the negative feelings that his savior is betraying him.

Well.

The GOP has had seven years to come up with a plan. Both houses passed a resolution from Tom Price in 2015 Obama vetoed. I cannot help but notice they did not even try to pass that. Trump did not write this legislation, it came from the House. To lay its failure at Trump’s feet, seems odd, indeed. I am not looking to scapegoat Ryan. I blame the entire GOP in Congress who has had seven years to come up with a solid repeal and replace plan. I blame the entire GOP in Congress for being unwilling to ignore Democrat appointed parlimentarians and make their own rules on reconcilliation. I blame the entire GOP in Congress for passing over a dozen resolutions to repeal Obamacare they knew would not be signed into law, but blanching the moment that progress might be made.

The GOP does not appear to want to rock the boat. They promised us, for (dare I say it) seven years, they would repeal it. “Vote for us to stop Obama! We will undo Obamacare!” Those promises were lies. John Podhoretz castigated anyone who believed them, saying “They all lie.” That was on a Ricochet podcast, where he was dismissing the anger and sense of betrayal loyal voters had at the GOP for “not doing anything.” Oh, one can argue they did “a lot” or “what they could” to block Obama. That was not what Mr. Podhoretz was saying, however. So the GOP got elected on the lie they wanted to repeal and replace Obamacare, as evidenced by the first chance they get, they have nothing ready to go, not even passing one of their old resolutions. And Mr. Goldberg says it is Trump’s fault. Let’s sequence that out:

  1. GOP has seven years to get something ready.
  2. They create something horrible that will not get the support of the Freedom Caucus no matter what.
  3. Trump supports the bill they create, and goes to work spending capital to get it passed.
  4. The House cannot pass it, delivering Trump a defeat.
  5. It is Trump’s fault for the failure.
  6. Blaming Ryan is just a way to avoid the truth about Trump.
  7. This proves Trump is not conservative
  8. If he ends up working with Democrats because the GOP refuses to work with him, that is the fault of the people who are in thrall to Trump, not the GOP who refuses to work with the President in their own party.
  9. We will have less conservative victories.

Here is my formulation, which is a bit different:

  1. GOP has seven years to get something ready.
  2. They create something horrible that will not get the support of the Freedom Caucus no matter what.
  3. Trump supports the bill they create, and goes to work spending capital to get it passed.
  4. The House cannot pass it, delivering Trump a defeat.
  5. The GOP in Congress is a fault because they did not create a bill they themselves could pass.
  6. Ryan is Speaker of the House, and therefore he gets the blame for pushing something the GOP won’t pass.
  7. This proves the GOP is not interested in advancing the conservative interests of the base.
  8. If Trump ends up working with Democrats, it will be the fault of the GOP in Congress for not working with the President of their own party.
  9. We will have less conservative victories.

For the record, I would have liked for Trump to have said “You bozos have had seven years to come up with something, and you send me this crap? Go back to the drawing board and send me something you might even be able to pass!” Maybe next time he will, after this loss.

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  1. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Viator (View Comment):
    Many conservatives think that the three stage process is baloney, once this thing passes the GOP will forget about it.

    This. I personally would be a lot more open to compromise on stage one if they’d tell us what stages two and three are.

    • #181
  2. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Viator (View Comment):
    Many conservatives think that the three stage process is baloney, once this thing passes the GOP will forget about it.

    This. I personally would be a lot more open to compromise on stage one if they’d tell us what stages two and three are.

    What some conservatives don’t realize is that we are likely to end up with nothing.

    No changes to Obamacare at all.

    If conservatives took seriously that possibility, maybe they would think differently about what kinds of compromises they would be willing to make.

    • #182
  3. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Viator (View Comment):
    Many conservatives think that the three stage process is baloney, once this thing passes the GOP will forget about it.

    This. I personally would be a lot more open to compromise on stage one if they’d tell us what stages two and three are.

    Stage 2 is supposed to be all regulatory. Price is supposed to change stuff under all the sections that say “the Secretary Shall or May…”.  There is no reason that can not be started right now.
    Get some wins under our belt with the regulations and it will be easier to pass a bill similar to the one that just failed.

    Stage 3 will never happen without 1)democrats voting for it 2) 60 republicans 3) eliminating the filibuster for legislation

    Steps 1 and 2 are the whole thing. Show everyone what those two steps combined will accomplish and the House will pass it.

     

     

     

     

    • #183
  4. Viator Inactive
    Viator
    @Viator

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    This. I personally would be a lot more open to compromise on stage one if they’d tell us what stages two and three are.

    • #184
  5. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Viator (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    This. I personally would be a lot more open to compromise on stage one if they’d tell us what stages two and three are.

    You should realize that if you don’t compromise, you get nothing.

    Why does any conservative need to have their arm twisted to vote for reeling in out of control Medicaid spending?

    Is the House Freedom Caucus comfortable with Governor John Kasich bilking the federal government for all the Medicaid funds he can get his hands on?

    A few days ago the Kansas State Legislature voted to expand Medicaid.  When is the House Freedom Caucus going to wake up!

    • #185
  6. Viator Inactive
    Viator
    @Viator

    Regarding stage two:

    “There are 1,442 citations in #ACA where it says “The Secretary shall…” or “The Secretary may…” @HHSGov, we’ll look at every single one,” Tom Price noted in a tweet Friday.

    That’s fine (maybe) if Tom Price is Health and Human Services Secretary, but not so fine if in the future some progressive gets appointed Health and Human Services Secretary. Another reason why ACA (Obamacare) needs to pulled up root and branch.

    • #186
  7. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Viator (View Comment):
    Regarding stage two:

    “There are 1,442 citations in #ACA where it says “The Secretary shall…” or “The Secretary may…” @HHSGov, we’ll look at every single one,” Tom Price noted in a tweet Friday.

    That’s fine (maybe) if Tom Price is Health and Human Services Secretary, but not so fine if in the future some progressive gets appointed Health and Human Services Secretary. Another reason why ACA (Obamacare) needs to pulled up root and branch.

    Wonderful.  I can’t wait to watch the press conference where 50 Republican US Senators announce that they are really to use the Nuclear Option so that they can repeal Obamacare with 50 Senate votes.

    Back to reality.

    Are conservatives willing to reform out of control Medicaid spending?

    Are conservatives willing to repeal the employer mandate that provides a disincentive for businesses giving 30 hours or more to their employees?

    Quit living in a fantasy land where all Republican members of Congress are Ted Cruz clones and cut a deal.

    • #187
  8. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Spiral (View Comment):
    Quit living in a fantasy land where all Republican members of Congress are Ted Cruz clones and cut a deal.

    Do we lose what was already on the table by trying to get more?

    • #188
  9. Viator Inactive
    Viator
    @Viator

    Spiral (View Comment):
    You should realize that if you don’t compromise, you get nothing.

    Yes that is one of the battles going on. Trump threatened to “compromise” with the Dems the other day. The Gang of Eight was a compromise. The conservative don’t want to compromise their way into ACA (Obamacare) 2.0. As I said above the Dems are street fighters at politics, the GOP is the party of rules, tradition (which is why I think Mike McConnell is so hesitant to violate senate rules and tradition – Reid and Schumer, not so much) , law, regulation, truth (whatever that is these days), and “compromise”. It’s hard to win a fight when you are yelling “no hitting below the belt” and the other party is kicking you in the cojones.

    • #189
  10. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Stina (View Comment):
    There seem to be three factions here… right, left, and center. I think the right is bigger than the left, but the center dwarfs both combined.

    Complicating matters is that those terms are being rewritten.  “Right” doesn’t mean the same thing as it did 18 months ago.

    • #190
  11. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Jager (View Comment):
    Stage 3 will never happen without 1)democrats voting for it 2) 60 republicans 3) eliminating the filibuster for legislation

    Not quite. We just need 8 Democrats to vote for cloture. They can still vote against the bill itself.

    Jager (View Comment):
    Stage 2 is supposed to be all regulatory. Price is supposed to change stuff under all the sections that say “the Secretary Shall or May…”. There is no reason that can not be started right now.

    Agreed. This probably should have been Stage 1, in hindsight.

    • #191
  12. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Viator (View Comment):

    Spiral (View Comment):
    You should realize that if you don’t compromise, you get nothing.

    Yes that is one of the battles going on. Trump threatened to “compromise” with the Dems the other day. The Gang of Eight was a compromise. The conservative don’t want to compromise their way into ACA (Obamacare) 2.0. As I said above the Dems are street fighters at politics, the GOP is the party of rules, tradition (which is why I think Mike McConnell is so hesitant to violate senate rules and tradition – Reid and Schumer, not so much) , law, regulation, truth (whatever that is these days), and “compromise”. It’s hard to win a fight when you are yelling “no hitting below the belt” and the other party is kicking you in the cojones.

    Even if McConnell were willing to go for the Nuclear Option on Obamacare repeal, that means nothing unless he has 49 other Republican Senators to back him up.

    • #192
  13. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Spiral (View Comment):
    Quit living in a fantasy land where all Republican members of Congress are Ted Cruz clones and cut a deal.

    Do we lose what was already on the table by trying to get more?

    The deal that was already on the table.

    The New Jersey Republicans might decide that they really meant it when they said that Ryan’s Medicaid reforms would hurt the elderly, the poor and the disabled.

    • #193
  14. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):
    Stage 3 will never happen without 1)democrats voting for it 2) 60 republicans 3) eliminating the filibuster for legislation

    Not quite. We just need 8 Democrats to vote for cloture. They can still vote against the bill itself.

    Jager (View Comment):
    Stage 2 is supposed to be all regulatory. Price is supposed to change stuff under all the sections that say “the Secretary Shall or May…”. There is no reason that can not be started right now.

    Agreed. This probably should have been Stage 1, in hindsight.

    You are right of course that they only need the dems for the cloture vote. I just don’t see that happening. Why would they vote to allow Republicans to change there biggest legislative victory in decades?

    • #194
  15. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Spiral (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Spiral (View Comment):
    Quit living in a fantasy land where all Republican members of Congress are Ted Cruz clones and cut a deal.

    Do we lose what was already on the table by trying to get more?

    The deal that was already on the table.

    The New Jersey Republicans might decide that they really meant it when they said that Ryan’s Medicaid reforms would hurt the elderly, the poor and the disabled.

    Well, gee, isn’t it time these people, who hold the fate of Americans in their hands and get sent to Washington claiming to know what is in their best interests, begin to mean what they say and do what’s best. The ‘fact’ that an action hurts some people does not , in and of itself, make it contrary to the best interest of Americans. These folks need to stop acting simple-mindedly.

    • #195
  16. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Spiral (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Spiral (View Comment):
    Quit living in a fantasy land where all Republican members of Congress are Ted Cruz clones and cut a deal.

    Do we lose what was already on the table by trying to get more?

    The deal that was already on the table.

    The New Jersey Republicans might decide that they really meant it when they said that Ryan’s Medicaid reforms would hurt the elderly, the poor and the disabled.

    Well, gee, isn’t it time these people, who hold the fate of Americans in their hands and get sent to Washington claiming to know what is in their best interests, begin to mean what they say and do what’s best. The ‘fact’ that an action hurts some people does not , in and of itself, make it contrary to the best interest of Americans. These folks need to stop acting simple-mindedly.

    I agree.  But the moderate Republicans, in both the House and the Senate, have a lot of power.  The smart thing for the House Freedom Caucus to do, in my opinion, is realize that it is those moderate Republicans who will likely determine what is included in any bill that passes both the House and Senate.

    A moderate Republican representing New Jersey probably doesn’t fear a primary challenge.  He does fear a Democrat general election challenger.

    • #196
  17. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Spiral (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Spiral (View Comment):
    Quit living in a fantasy land where all Republican members of Congress are Ted Cruz clones and cut a deal.

    Do we lose what was already on the table by trying to get more?

    The deal that was already on the table.

    The New Jersey Republicans might decide that they really meant it when they said that Ryan’s Medicaid reforms would hurt the elderly, the poor and the disabled.

    Well, gee, isn’t it time these people, who hold the fate of Americans in their hands and get sent to Washington claiming to know what is in their best interests, begin to mean what they say and do what’s best. The ‘fact’ that an action hurts some people does not , in and of itself, make it contrary to the best interest of Americans. These folks need to stop acting simple-mindedly.

    Conservatives reacted negatively to Ryan’s bill because it doesn’t remove the ban on preexisting conditions and the essential benefits requirements.

    They are on solid ground here, it terms of policy, in my opinion.

    But those regulations are as popular as they are destructive.  Sound familiar?

    And then add in the restrictions of budget reconciliation, the filibuster.  So, the New Jersey Republicans are saying, “Why should I walk the plank on bill that will be gutted by the Senate?”

    • #197
  18. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Jager (View Comment):

    You are right of course that they only need the dems for the cloture vote. I just don’t see that happening. Why would they vote to allow Republicans to change there biggest legislative victory in decades?

    How big of a victory is it, though? At least some of them have to be aware that this “victory” is responsible for the decimation of their party darn near nationwide.

    • #198
  19. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Mendel (View Comment):
    And considering that most anyone you meet who calls themselves a centrist or an independent (including most journalists) actually espouse liberal policies and solutions, it becomes obvious why everything in our country seems to slant left even though we are a “centrist” country according to polling. In other words: most centrists are just left-leaners who are too embarrassed to call themselves left-leaners.

    I don’t think the centrists skew left so much as they skew towards the status quo. All the “Democrats-lite” we’re talking about voted against Obamacare but are now cited as an obstacle to repealing it. It seems inconsistent at first glance, but what they’re consistently doing is voting against disruptive change.

    • #199
  20. Spiral Inactive
    Spiral
    @HeavyWater

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    You are right of course that they only need the dems for the cloture vote. I just don’t see that happening. Why would they vote to allow Republicans to change there biggest legislative victory in decades?

    How big of a victory is it, though? At least some of them have to be aware that this “victory” is responsible for the decimation of their party darn near nationwide.

    Prediction:

    The first Democrat who announces support for repealing the Obamacare “ban” on preexisting conditions and/or essential health benefits (those are both issues of high importance to members of the House Freedom Caucus) will need more body guards than Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

    • #200
  21. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    Bryan G. Stephens: I have to say that this is a fine example, a fine example, of what it is like to be spoken down too by my betters for supporting Trump. A caricature is built of a unreasonable person, a few people with extreme positions are picked to be spokespeople, and anyone supporting Trump, or feeling that the GOP in the House shares some blame is only avoiding the negative feelings that his savior is betraying him.

    Looks like you’re suffering under the tyranny of a cliche, here.

    • #201
  22. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens: I have to say that this is a fine example, a fine example, of what it is like to be spoken down too by my betters for supporting Trump. A caricature is built of a unreasonable person, a few people with extreme positions are picked to be spokespeople, and anyone supporting Trump, or feeling that the GOP in the House shares some blame is only avoiding the negative feelings that his savior is betraying him.

    Looks like you’re suffering under the tyranny of a cliche, here.

    Down with paper mache tyrants!

    • #202
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