Why We Push Back

 

Peggy Noonan had a good write up on WSJ a couple days ago…

The Trump Wars of the past 18 months do not now go away. Now it becomes the Trump Civil War, every day, with Democrats trying to get rid of him and half the country pushing back. To reduce it to the essentials: As long as Mr. Trump’s party holds the House, it will be a standoff. If the Democrats take the House, they will move to oust him.

Because we are divided. We are two nations, maybe more.

Normally a new president has someone backing him up, someone publicly behind him. Mr. Obama had the mainstream media—the big broadcast networks, big newspapers, activists and intellectuals, pundits and columnists of the left—the whole shebang. He had a unified, passionate party. Mr. Trump in comparison has almost nothing. The mainstream legacy media oppose him, even hate him, and will not let up. The columnists, thinkers and magazines of the right were mostly NeverTrump; some came reluctantly to support him. His party is split or splitting. The new president has gradations of sympathy, respect or support from exactly one cable news channel, and some websites.

It should be understood on Ricochet that the readers here aren’t the typical, everyday, go with the flow Conservatives. We are thinkers and nerds, challengers and questioners. It should go without saying that when one of our political leaders strays, either from the vision he set forth in his campaign or from our Constitution, that we will be critical. This has been our Modus andOperi since I was in college and has been used against us by liberal media for at least just as long.

And yet, in the face of Trump, all of those things have become uncertain, when they really aren’t uncertain. It has become necessary to ostensibly declare “I WILL criticize when he does something I don’t like.” Of course you will. We all will. Its what we do on Ricochet, after all. Even the ones who are EverTrump will criticize if he turns away from his promises.

But the Reluctant and Pro-Trump knows something that the anti-Trump doesn’t — that to declare your intent like this weakens your alliance. You have declared yourself a weak point, ripe for turning. We are on tentative ground with a common opposition — those rioters aren’t just unhappy with Trump, they are unhappy with all of us. They wish to use the government against us.

To the world, we should be presenting a unified face. Even if it isn’t for Trump, he is the one leading and positioned against the illiberal Left, so for now, he is an ally to all conservatives, even those who were NeverTrump.

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  1. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Songwriter (View Comment):

    Jules PA (View Comment):
    The biggest challenge will be muting the wailing of the lib-media and sore losers.

    I wonder if this over-the-top, sack-cloth-and-ashes routine of the Left might not actually be a help to Trump. Their behavior is so childish and annoying that they may be drawing negative attention away from Trump and to themselves. Whether they know it or not, they are firing up Trump’s support – even from people like me, who voted for the man with great (and I do mean great) hesitation.

    And like me, who did not vote for him. Frankly, the left is already people alright…toward Trump.

    I think that might very well work in the short-term. But in the long term it is bad for the country — because sooner or later these people, or their successors, will be back in power again.

    • #91
  2. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Mike H (View Comment):
    If you want to describe wrongdoing, how can you do that effectively without comparing it to the worsedoing all around us.

    Everyone vote your conscience and applaud Truth and Justice, whomever brings it to the forefront.

    • #92
  3. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    CM, are you basically saying that you want conservatives to want Trump to succeed, and to convey that — rather than a desire for his failure — in their words, whether they support or criticize?

    • #93
  4. CM Inactive
    CM
    @CM

    Leigh (View Comment):
    CM, are you basically saying that you want conservatives to want Trump to succeed, and to convey that — rather than a desire for his failure — in their words, whether they support or criticize?

    Yes.

    • #94
  5. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    CM (View Comment):

    Leigh (View Comment):
    CM, are you basically saying that you want conservatives to want Trump to succeed, and to convey that — rather than a desire for his failure — in their words, whether they support or criticize?

    Yes.

    Well, now, to me that’s a different question, to which a lot more of us might reply with enthusiastic yes!

    • #95
  6. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):

    CM (View Comment):

    Leigh (View Comment):
    CM, are you basically saying that you want conservatives to want Trump to succeed, and to convey that — rather than a desire for his failure — in their words, whether they support or criticize?

    Yes.

    Well, now, to me that’s a different question, to which a lot more of us might reply with enthusiastic yes!

    To be fair, some #NeverTrump commentators in the media give the impression that — having predicted that Trump would be a disaster — they’re now invested in seeing that disaster come true. And that leads to distrust of even those who don’t feel that way.

    • #96
  7. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Jules PA (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    If you want to describe wrongdoing, how can you do that effectively without comparing it to the worsedoing all around us.

    Everyone vote your conscience and applaud Truth and Justice, whomever brings it to the forefront.

    This is a misquote. I’m not the author of the quote. I’ve been noticing it more lately. Coincidence, or bug?

    • #97
  8. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):

    CM (View Comment):

    Leigh (View Comment):
    CM, are you basically saying that you want conservatives to want Trump to succeed, and to convey that — rather than a desire for his failure — in their words, whether they support or criticize?

    Yes.

    Well, now, to me that’s a different question, to which a lot more of us might reply with enthusiastic yes!

    Indeed. The OP sounded like yet another admonition to stop criticizing him. Leigh’s restatement is much more reasonable.

    • #98
  9. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Mike H (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Has anyone considered that NeverTrump was a necessary part of getting Trump elected? If there are no elites to rally against, how to you persuade people to passionately rally against the elites? Having some of those very people in the same party almost seems to have been a stronger rallying cry than trying to oust Hillary.

    Maybe they could be thanked for doing Trump a service rather than browbeaten after already losing. If they stop and get in line, it could have the counter-intuitive effect of deflating Trump’s balloon somewhat, and we know there’s not much room for support loss.

    I like the way you think about this. But if you are right, it was not only important to have NeverTrump elitists, but it was important for people to rail against them. If Trump and his supporters said no more than a thank you, it would have diminished the effect.

    I think this can be accomplished by attacking the NeverTrump ideas and avoid attacking the people as stupid and morally abhorrent. “Thank you for being wrong about this so that enough people are persuaded to get the right result.”

    But, Mike, it’s also important for the many years of incompetence to precede Trump’s rise. These people might do things accidentally but the things they want are not within their grasp. They are the great Incompetents.

    • #99
  10. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Has anyone considered that NeverTrump was a necessary part of getting Trump elected? If there are no elites to rally against, how to you persuade people to passionately rally against the elites? Having some of those very people in the same party almost seems to have been a stronger rallying cry than trying to oust Hillary.

    Maybe they could be thanked for doing Trump a service rather than browbeaten after already losing. If they stop and get in line, it could have the counter-intuitive effect of deflating Trump’s balloon somewhat, and we know there’s not much room for support loss.

    I like the way you think about this. But if you are right, it was not only important to have NeverTrump elitists, but it was important for people to rail against them. If Trump and his supporters said no more than a thank you, it would have diminished the effect.

    I think this can be accomplished by attacking the NeverTrump ideas and avoid attacking the people as stupid and morally abhorrent. “Thank you for being wrong about this so that enough people are persuaded to get the right result.”

    But, Mike, it’s also important for the many years of incompetence to precede Trump’s rise. These people might do things accidentally but the things they want are not within their grasp. They are the great Incompetents.

    I think who is exactly “incompetent” is open for debate. Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    • #100
  11. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative.  They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    • #101
  12. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    He’s to the left of Hillary on trade. He’s what pushed her to reject TPP.

    • #102
  13. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    Yes, they pretended that they weren’t helping Hillary get elected.

    • #103
  14. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    Yes, they pretended that they weren’t helping Hillary get elected.

    • #104
  15. CM Inactive
    CM
    @CM

    Sorry I haven’t been more active. Real life stuff is pounding on my door.

    • #105
  16. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @

    binary

    • #106
  17. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    MJBubba (View Comment):
    binary

    • #107
  18. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    MJBubba (View Comment):
    binary

    Why do you persist in using an argument you know doesn’t work to win a debate that ended six weeks ago?

    Sad.

    • #108
  19. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    Yes, they pretended that they weren’t helping Hillary get elected.

    • #109
  20. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    Yes, they pretended that they weren’t helping Hillary get elected.

    • #110
  21. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    Yes, they pretended that they weren’t helping Hillary get elected.

    • #111
  22. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    Yes, they pretended that they weren’t helping Hillary get elected.

    • #112
  23. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    Yes, they pretended that they weren’t helping Hillary get elected.

    • #113
  24. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    MJBubba (View Comment):

    Mike H (View Comment):
    Even if NeverTrump people turn out to be wrong about how Trump will govern, they still had extremely good reasons to believe what they did.

    They perhaps had good reasons to believe that Trump would not be reliably conservative. They did not have good reasons to think he would govern to the left of Hillary.

    Yes, they pretended that they weren’t helping Hillary get elected.

    • #114
  25. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):
    He’s to the left of Hillary on trade. He’s what pushed her to reject TPP.

    That’s not necessarily a left-right issue, nor has it ever been.

    • #115
  26. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    MJBubba (View Comment):
    binary

    Why do you persist in using an argument you know doesn’t work to win a debate that ended six weeks ago?

    Sad.

    I put up a silly and childish provocation in response to silly childishness in the comments.

    The result was even more silly childishness.

    Better than high dudgeon and Editorial lightning bolts.

    Maybe.

    • #116
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