A Trump Compromise

 
emperor-trump

The republic is dead. Long live the empire.

No matter who wins in November, the next President of the United States will be a self-absorbed multi-millionaire who doesn’t see the Constitution as binding on his or her power, who doesn’t believe in the rule of law, and who is willing to use racial and class grievances to get elected. As such, I had been planning to leave the presidential line of my ballot blank, as I could not fathom voting for either of the two realistic candidates. I’ve felt like Claudius stammering, “B- b- but I want a republic!” as others debate which candidate will make the better emperor.

But — and you knew there was a “but” coming — I was honored to have my friend and fellow Ricochet member Sabrdance over for dinner on Wednesday. He’s a non-tenured professor at a state college in flyover country, specifically, in a state where the Democratic Party barely exists. Despite this, he and his colleagues are scared to teach fundamentals of Western Civilization like Augustine’s theory of natural law. If a student complains that a philosopher dead for 1,500 years is “triggering” by modern PC standards, then the professors will likely find themselves out of a job; from experience, they know that the university president cannot be relied on to defend academic integrity in the face of political correctness. Only the fact that their governor is a mini-Trump — willing to defy the orders of the enormous executive agencies that really run the country — prevents them from being overrun by even more ridiculous imperial dictats.

This isn’t isolated to academia, of course. Ask member Skipsul, as a business owner, how heavy the imperial burden is on his business. Ask member Bryan Stephens about trying to help the less fortunate with the imperial minions constantly in his way. Even in my own business of real estate appraising, the burden on the appraiser to comply with every crazy rule (such as answering any possible concern a computer program can muster) is driving good appraisers out of the business. In a country like this, stomping my foot and saying “But I want a republic!” is going to be just as effective as when Claudius did it.

So here’s the deal: If the race in my state is competitive (as defined by the candidates being within five percent of each other, as of the last poll before Election Day), I will do my part to ensure our next ruler is the emperor wearing the red ribbon instead of the empress wearing the blue one. In exchange, I ask two things:

  1. Please stop telling me that less-than-wholehearted support for Trump is tantamount to voting for Clinton. I know she’s terrible. I know she’s a chronic liar, corrupt to her core, who has wasted American lives for nothing and who ought to be in jail. That she remains not only at liberty, but within reach of such power is yet further proof that we no longer live in a country where all citizens are equal before the law. Conceded.
  2. Please stop telling me that Donald Trump is somehow a conservative. He belongs with me in the Republican party to the same extent Caitlyn Jenner belongs with me in the women’s restroom. Whether it’s a wall with Mexico that will violate water treaties, or a trade war that will violate trade treaties, or a ban on Muslims that violates the Equal Protection Clause, or his unsubstantiated attacks on the judiciary, or his praise of the Chinese massacres in Tienanmen Square, the man clearly has no sense of what the Constitution says, nor any respect for the rule of law. My possible vote for him has nothing to do with his (dubious) merits or (lack of) character. Rather it’s that, as a red-ribbon emperor, he will probably bring more red-ribbon cronies into the executive branch than the blue-ribbon empress will, and that I will likely find his dictats to be less distasteful than hers.

I am called by God to honor the emperor, and I will. If my vote is likely to make any difference, I will vote for the marginally better emperor. But if my vote won’t make any difference, please let me keep voting for either of these two off my conscience, and leave me to mourn the passing of the republic in peace.

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  1. Liz Member
    Liz
    @Liz

    Ball Diamond Ball:

    Liz:[snip]

    […]What if it turns out…[that I] have engaged in the doing of terror elsewhere (even, say, training camp stuff — the Tora Bora back nine, for example)? Then these rumors and so-so definitions may be held against me, but so what. With falsifying an official document, however, I have now committed a crime on the way in.

    Right, I get that, and it’s why lawyers advise applicants to be exact in filling out forms. If you’re a nice Italian girl, but your daddy launders money for the Camorra, better to come clean about it. They’ll probably let you in, which is my point. The instructions indicate that a “yes” answer will not necessarily make the applicant ineligible. This encourages people to tell the truth, but it also encourages State to allow in people who have no business on our shores because they can use the falsification against them later.

    If it turns out an applicant is actually terrorist, it is likely we’ll find this out only when he commits terrorism; at that point, the fact that he lied on a form won’t be worth much. I understand that this is meant as a tool for the government to get rid of visa-holders before they commit crimes. But considering the extensive checking and proof-gathering State would have to do in order to show it was a lie, I doubt it is used over-much.

    • #121
  2. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Herbert:

    Joseph Stanko:

    Hoyacon: That’s a definite distinction, but the consensus is that it’s still constitutional.

    If it applies to citizens trying to re-enter the country after travel abroad, it’s clearly unconstitutional. If it applies only to foreign nationals applying for a visa, I think it would be constitutional.

    I don’t think it would be very practical, though. Would it simply rely on self-disclosure, e.g. “check this box if you are a Muslim?” If so, obviously not so hard for potential terrorists who believe in taqiyya to circumvent…

    Here’s the foolproof Muslim-immigration-prevention-system, as explained by the candidate:

    Willie Geist: Donald, a customs agent would ask the person his or her religion?

    Donald Trump: They would be probably, they would say, ‘are you Muslim?’

    Geist: And if they said, ‘yes,’ they would not be allowed in the country?

    Trump: That is correct.

    Take that, ISIS! There’s no way any of their sleeper cells could get through that kind of scrutiny!

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/428198/muslim-immigration-ban-and-constitution-jim-geraghty

    It seems insane to make fun of Trump for saying maybe we should at least try to find out.  With a lot of people coming in, it won’t be at all,hard to pick out the Muslims.  The Bloody Bride of San Bernardino came in wearing the full Khandahar. US officials bent over backwards to avoid seeing what she was.   And yes, the men could and do wear jeans and hoodies.  But let’s face it, they do have certain racial,characteristics.  Oh I know that’s anathema to even mention.  But it is true.

    To me, the obvious fact that yes,  there may be Islamist terrorists who are smart enough not to look the part and smart enough to deny their own faith to gain entry, is no reason not to even try to weed out the killers.

    And not all of them ARE very smart.  Did ya catch Omar Ka-Blam’s brother-in-law, asked if he knew Omar’s plans?  You’d think he’d deny it–but his cool response:”No comment.”

    The Left always says:  you can’t stop ’em, no matter what you do.  I like hearing that someone is willing to try.

    • #122
  3. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    Ball Diamond Ball:I still can’t quite wrap my head around this:

    perfect

    Never? Never ever? Not in the history of ever?

    I eschew “lol” because we already have “ha-ha”, and because usually, it is not in fact relaying actual laughing out loud. It seemed childishly overwrought to say LOL! all the time just to indicate something was funny.

    Silly me.

    LOL

    “Never was so much owed by so many to so few.”  Never, Winston? Not even the 300 at Thermopylae? LOL

    • #123
  4. Lazy_Millennial Inactive
    Lazy_Millennial
    @LazyMillennial

    Liz:

    Joseph Stanko:I have a better idea, why don’t we just ask everyone who applies for a visa this simple question:

    “What is your purpose in visiting the United States?”

    1. Business
    2. Pleasure
    3. Terrorism

    If they pick #3, don’t let them in. Problem solved, with no messy religious tests or constitutional questions!

    You’ll hardly credit it, but this is indeed one of questions asked on visa forms. “Do you seek to engage in terrorist activities while in the United States or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities?” There are several questions on that theme. Some forms also ask:

    1. Are you a member of or otherwise affiliated with the Communist or other totalitarian parties? [One wonders how long that one will last.]

    2. Are you coming to the United States to practice polygamy?

    3. Have you ever committed, ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in genocide?

    Standard visa forms ask 30 or so security and background questions his type. Even the ESTA asks about criminal and terrorist activities.

    Chesterton’s got some great thoughts on questions like these, in the first chapter of the book linked here. The description of the questions starts in paragraph 4, though the first 3 paragraphs are worth your time too.

    • #124
  5. Liz Member
    Liz
    @Liz

    Lazy_Millennial:

    Liz:

    Joseph Stanko:I have a better idea, why don’t we just ask everyone who applies for a visa this simple question:

    “What is your purpose in visiting the United States?”

    1. Business
    2. Pleasure
    3. Terrorism

    If they pick #3, don’t let them in. Problem solved, with no messy religious tests or constitutional questions!

    You’ll hardly credit it, but this is indeed one of questions asked on visa forms. “Do you seek to engage in terrorist activities while in the United States or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities?” There are several questions on that theme. Some forms also ask:

    1. Are you a member of or otherwise affiliated with the Communist or other totalitarian parties? [One wonders how long that one will last.]

    2. Are you coming to the United States to practice polygamy?

    3. Have you ever committed, ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in genocide?

    Standard visa forms ask 30 or so security and background questions his type. Even the ESTA asks about criminal and terrorist activities.

    Chesterton’s got some great thoughts on questions like these, in the first chapter of the book linked here. The description of the questions starts in paragraph 4, though the first 3 paragraphs are worth your time too.

    Thanks for the link. I read the beginning, and now it goes on my unending list of must-reads.

    • #125
  6. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @
    1. Please stop telling me that less-than-wholehearted support for Trump is tantamount to voting for Clinton.

    OK, less-than-wholehearted support for Trump is not tantamount to voting for Clinton.  But lukewarm support is better than opposition.  Tepid support can carry the day.  Both candidates have such high negatives that supporting either will not indicate a high level of enthusiasm, and may even be more persuasive.  I candidly acknowledge Trump’s many faults.  I still find Trump to be soundly preferable to Hillary, who I view as a grave danger to western civilization.

    I am really concerned for the future of America.  Considering Clinton’s advantages going in to November leads me to the position that saying that you are neutral between Trump or Clinton is tantamount to support for Hillary.

    1. Please stop telling me that Donald Trump is somehow a conservative.

    OK, Donald Trump is not a conservative.  He has indicated support for a few conservative positions, but in a cartoonish way and not in any way that might be considered reliable.  The thing is, Trump seems to be agnostic when it comes to conservative principles, while Hillary is hostile to conservative principles.  If you are looking for “the most conservative candidate who can win,” unfortunately, and however awful it may be, Trump is it.  I think Trump can be characterized as “center-left,” which is not comforting to conservatives.

    My support for Trump is motivated by my fear of Hillary.

    Lord, help us.

    • #126
  7. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    MJBubba: I am really concerned for the future of America.

    This should have been number 3 on Amy’s list: Please stop implying that we are not concerned for the future of America.

    • #127
  8. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Amy your compromise is honorable and perfectly understandable.  For me when I hear or see Obama making the case against Trump I get so angry that I just want it all to burn down and destroy everyone by voting for Trump.

    The thing that holds me up is that we do not know that Trump will be worse than Clinton.  If Obama has been even half as bad as most of around him claim him to be then a lot of what he has done will come home to roost in Clinton’s first term.  Clinton will not be able to deal with all the problems that Obama has left especially when she can’t blame Obama for the mistakes.

    Trump on the other hand give Obama supporters a way out his ham handed and thoughtless way of dealing with things will make Obama’s disasters worse and hang his ineptitude around the Republican party for decades.

    It is really hard to think of a future where I would have to face up to my kids and say that I voted for Clinton or Trump.  While a Trump presidency is sure to have a few highlights for me and give me a few wins and Clinton Presidency holds no hope for even transitory joy both are so unqualified and incapable that to actually say one is better than the other is impossible for me.

    They are two disasters that come in two different flavors.  I hope not to get so desperate as to vote for either, but I very well might.

    But I respect your compromise as an honorable position.

    • #128
  9. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Brian Wolf: Amy your compromise is honorable and perfectly understandable. For me when I hear or see Obama making the case against Trump I get so angry that I just want it all to burn down and destroy everyone by voting for Trump.

    I sympathize. I’ve been saying for months now that the best argument in favor of either candidate is the other one.

    • #129
  10. Amy Schley Coolidge
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Umbra Fractus:

    MJBubba: I am really concerned for the future of America.

    This should have been number 3 on Amy’s list: Please stop implying that we are not concerned for the future of America.

    Eh, at this point I’m concerned for America’s future the way I’m concerned about my grandfather’s health. He’s going to die soon; it’s just a question of when and how much suffering there will be. I know that all the concern in the world won’t actually make a difference.

    • #130
  11. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    Brian Wolf: It is really hard to think of a future where I would have to face up to my kids and say that I voted for Clinton or Trump.

    My situation is a little different although my attitude is similar to yours. My sons are old enough to vote. They are very conservative on economics, slightly less so on social issues, very much believers in free markets and less regulation, think political correctness is a disease, and want a strong military.

    They are both going to avoid voting unless our state (it’s a swing state) is very close, in which case they will vote for Hillary. I have told them I can’t vote for her, so I won’t be voting no matter how close it is.

    • #131
  12. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    TKC1101: You are using the Progressive viewpoint that all women, Hispanics and blacks have one point of view.

    I’m not, I’m merely going by what the polls say.  If you want to argue the polls are all wrong for some reason, fine.  We’ll find out in November who was right, so stay tuned.

    TKC1101: Blacks will be confronted with an old white woman and an old white guy with sizzle and flash. No Obama on the ticket.

    Blacks were a reliable Democrat voting block long before Obama came along, remember when Bill Clinton was dubbed the “first black president?”  And blacks have been turning out in the primaries to vote for Hillary over Bernie, they’ve been her most reliable demographic.  So far there’s no evidence they dislike the “old white woman.”

    • #132
  13. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Ball Diamond Ball:Attempting to single-buttock that with an Alinsky-lite pandering approach is exactly the wrong approach. Of Reagan’s three-legged stool — limited government, social conservative, and defense hawks — which ones are black? Gay? Muslim? Mexican? White? Protestant? Women?

    Exactly — none and all. Pandering to racial/sexual/kook grievance groups is the hot ticket to nowhere.

    I said nothing about pandering.  I merely ask for a candidate who does not go out of his way to insult and alienate blocks of voters by for example suggesting that the judge presiding over one of the many lawsuits against him is obviously biased because he’s Mexican.

    • #133
  14. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Man With the Axe:

    Brian Wolf: It is really hard to think of a future where I would have to face up to my kids and say that I voted for Clinton or Trump.

    My situation is a little different although my attitude is similar to yours. My sons are old enough to vote. They are very conservative on economics, slightly less so on social issues, very much believers in free markets and less regulation, think political correctness is a disease, and want a strong military.

    They are both going to avoid voting unless our state (it’s a swing state) is very close, in which case they will vote for Hillary. I have told them I can’t vote for her, so I won’t be voting no matter how close it is.

    For me I can’t honestly say which one will  be worse.  I think both will be so bad that for to make the case that either Hillary was at least better than Trump would have been or that at least Trump was better than Hillary would have been will be very hard to believe since either will be horrible.  Who ever wins most people will regret their vote and figure the other one would have been better.

    While there are flavors to a Trump disaster as  President that I would like I just can’t bring myself to actually support him.  And as I for my dislike of Hillary I take a back seat to no one.  So it is really hard for me to vote for President no matter how close my State is.  I will joyfully vote for down ballot Republicans though.  Tough, tough year.

    • #134
  15. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    OK, here’s a thought.  For those of you who assume that both Trump and Hillary would be awful, who will be more easily ejected after four years?

    For anyone who would answer Hillary, I invite you to review the re-election of Obama.

    • #135
  16. Herbert Member
    Herbert
    @Herbert

    Judge Mental:OK, here’s a thought. For those of you who assume that both Trump and Hillary would be awful, who will be more easily ejected after four years?

    For anyone who would answer Hillary, I invite you to review the re-election of Obama.

    Who gets punished if Trump is bad?   Who gets punished if Clinton is bad?

    • #136
  17. Richard Finlay Inactive
    Richard Finlay
    @RichardFinlay

    Herbert: Who gets punished if Trump is bad? Who gets punished if Clinton is bad?

    A.  Republicans

    B. Republicans – after all, who is getting punished if Obama is bad?

    • #137
  18. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Herbert:

    Judge Mental:OK, here’s a thought. For those of you who assume that both Trump and Hillary would be awful, who will be more easily ejected after four years?

    For anyone who would answer Hillary, I invite you to review the re-election of Obama.

    Who gets punished if Trump is bad? Who gets punished if Clinton is bad?

    I don’t understand what you’re asking.

    • #138
  19. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Judge Mental:OK, here’s a thought. For those of you who assume that both Trump and Hillary would be awful, who will be more easily ejected after four years?

    For anyone who would answer Hillary, I invite you to review the re-election of Obama.

    If Trump gets ejected after four years, who replaces him?

    If you think the answer will be, “A conservative,” you’re delusional.

    • #139
  20. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Umbra Fractus:

    Judge Mental:OK, here’s a thought. For those of you who assume that both Trump and Hillary would be awful, who will be more easily ejected after four years?

    For anyone who would answer Hillary, I invite you to review the re-election of Obama.

    If Trump gets ejected after four years, who replaces him?

    If you think the answer will be, “A conservative,” you’re delusional.

    Sometimes I think I’m delusional, when the little green wheels are following me, but that’s beside the point.  I do think the R’s have a better chance of electing someone other than Trump in 2020 if he wins than if Hillary wins.

    See, if Hillary wins then you’ll get four years of Obama style press coverage, historic first everything, able to do no wrong, everything that does go wrong will be blamed on R’s.  I wrote an entire post on why I think she would be re-elected.

    If Trump wins, one of two things happens.  Either he turns out to be OK, or he sucks.  If he sucks, then R’s will primary him, and probably unseat him.  Whether they would then win the general is tougher, depending on who the D’s run, but it won’t be Hillary.

    • #140
  21. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    One more thing… if he sucks, I doubt the primary is necessary, because if he sucks he won’t be having fun.  And if he’s not having fun, he won’t want to do it.

    • #141
  22. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    Ball Diamond Ball:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake: The Rabble Alliance seems to have grown impatient with ideology, for example, and some would rather identify as Americanists first, rather than as ideologues. That is not to say ideology means precisely zero to them, only that it may have taken backseat to other concerns.

    No, it means that we have abandoned the business as usual GOP as an effective way to achieve ideological goals.

    I do not care what ideology fills Trump’s head any more than I care what the hammer thinks of the nail.

    I certainly believe Ball Diamond Ball does not care, and is only “abandon[ing] the business as usual GOP as an effective way to achieve ideological goals”. I have not observed, though, that all members of the Rabble Alliance are Ball Diamond Ball. Some seem genuinely attracted to the faction because they really have grown impatient with ideology, and would rather identify as Americanist or just patriotic than as ideologically conservative.

    • #142
  23. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Judge Mental:See, if Hillary wins then you’ll get four years of Obama style press coverage, historic first everything, able to do no wrong, everything that does go wrong will be blamed on R’s. I wrote an entire post on why I think she would be re-elected.

    If Trump wins, one of two things happens. Either he turns out to be OK, or he sucks. If he sucks, then R’s will primary him, and probably unseat him. Whether they would then win the general is tougher, depending on who the D’s run, but it won’t be Hillary.

    If Trump wins he’ll get four years of Bush style press coverage. Everything that goes wrong will be blamed on conservatism, even if conservatives yell from 20,000 watt loudspeakers that we’re against it. The Dems will nominate someone even worse than Hillary, and the theoretical conservative candidate will begin the campaign having to explain that the sitting President doesn’t represent the values of his own party.

    • #143
  24. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Umbra Fractus:

    Judge Mental:See, if Hillary wins then you’ll get four years of Obama style press coverage, historic first everything, able to do no wrong, everything that does go wrong will be blamed on R’s. I wrote an entire post on why I think she would be re-elected.

    If Trump wins, one of two things happens. Either he turns out to be OK, or he sucks. If he sucks, then R’s will primary him, and probably unseat him. Whether they would then win the general is tougher, depending on who the D’s run, but it won’t be Hillary.

    If Trump wins he’ll get four years of Bush style press coverage. Everything that goes wrong will be blamed on conservatism, even if conservatives yell from 20,000 watt loudspeakers that we’re against it. The Dems will nominate someone even worse than Hillary, and the theoretical conservative candidate will begin the campaign having to explain that the sitting President doesn’t represent the values of his own party.

    But that stuff would happen to any Republican president.

    • #144
  25. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Hypatia: With a lot of people coming in, it won’t be at all,hard to pick out the Muslims. The Bloody Bride of San Bernardino came in wearing the full Khandahar. US officials bent over backwards to avoid seeing what she was. And yes, the men could and do wear jeans and hoodies. But let’s face it, they do have certain racial,characteristics. Oh I know that’s anathema to even mention. But it is true.

    No it isn’t.  It drives me nuts when the left calls anyone who critizes Islamic theology a racist, because Islam is a religion, not a race.

    Let’s not start making the same mistake!  There are no racial characteristics to distinguish an Arab Muslim from an Arab Christian.

    • #145
  26. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Judge Mental:

    Umbra Fractus:

    Judge Mental:See, if Hillary wins then you’ll get four years of Obama style press coverage, historic first everything, able to do no wrong, everything that does go wrong will be blamed on R’s. I wrote an entire post on why I think she would be re-elected.

    If Trump wins, one of two things happens. Either he turns out to be OK, or he sucks. If he sucks, then R’s will primary him, and probably unseat him. Whether they would then win the general is tougher, depending on who the D’s run, but it won’t be Hillary.

    If Trump wins he’ll get four years of Bush style press coverage. Everything that goes wrong will be blamed on conservatism, even if conservatives yell from 20,000 watt loudspeakers that we’re against it. The Dems will nominate someone even worse than Hillary, and the theoretical conservative candidate will begin the campaign having to explain that the sitting President doesn’t represent the values of his own party.

    But that stuff would happen to any Republican president.

    Yes but it has different effects.  Look at the outcome of the Reagan Presidency and the First Bush.  There was a reason Reagan survived the onslaught and Bush didn’t.  There was a reason the Bush beat Kerry like a drum but left with with his popularity in free fall at the end of his second term.  Trump will get the treatment of any Republican but he will make it easy for the bad news to stick.  Read or listen to any Reagan speech from the 80s and listen or read anything that Trump says today and compare and contrast the two.  You will see what I mean.

    • #146
  27. Ball Diamond Ball Member
    Ball Diamond Ball
    @BallDiamondBall

    Man With the Axe:

    Ball Diamond Ball:I still can’t quite wrap my head around this:

    perfect

    Never? Never ever? Not in the history of ever?

    I eschew “lol” because we already have “ha-ha”, and because usually, it is not in fact relaying actual laughing out loud. It seemed childishly overwrought to say LOL! all the time just to indicate something was funny.

    Silly me.

    LOL

    “Never was so much owed by so many to so few.” Never, Winston? Not even the 300 at Thermopylae? LOL

    From the sublime to the lime itself.

    • #147
  28. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    Ball Diamond Ball:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake: The Rabble Alliance seems to have grown impatient with ideology, for example, and some would rather identify as Americanists first, rather than as ideologues. That is not to say ideology means precisely zero to them, only that it may have taken backseat to other concerns.

    No, it means that we have abandoned the business as usual GOP as an effective way to achieve ideological goals.

    I do not care what ideology fills Trump’s head any more than I care what the hammer thinks of the nail.

    I certainly believe Ball Diamond Ball does not care, and is only “abandon[ing] the business as usual GOP as an effective way to achieve ideological goals”. I have not observed, though, that all members of the Rabble Alliance are Ball Diamond Ball. Some seem genuinely attracted to the faction because they really have grown impatient with ideology, and would rather identify as Americanist or just patriotic than as ideologically conservative.

    Others of us are thoroughly dismayed that Trump is our nominee, and we really don’t want to destroy the GOP and start over.  Some us are just motivated by fear of another Democrat Administration, and place the welfare of America above the welfare of the GOP  and ahead of the standing of the conservative movement.   We concede that we are asking for something difficult when we ask for support for Trump.

    • #148
  29. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    MJBubba:

    Others of us are thoroughly dismayed that Trump is our nominee, and we really don’t want to destroy the GOP and start over. Some us are just motivated by fear of another Democrat Administration, and place the welfare of America above the welfare of the GOP and ahead of the standing of the conservative movement. We concede that we are asking for something difficult when we ask for support for Trump.

    To me, if we can think of putting all the pros and cons of Trump on one side of a metaphorical balance and those of Hillary on the other side, the balance is practically in the middle. Some look at it and see it tipping to one side. Others see it tipping a little to the other side. These are people who generally agree on most things, but they don’t agree on which way the balance tips. These are not people who should be hating on each other.

    These same people, all of them, if it were Lyin’ Ted or Little Marco on one side and Hillary on the other would see the balance tipping pretty much all the way to one side.

    • #149
  30. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Man With the Axe:To me, if we can think of putting all the pros and cons of Trump on one side of a metaphorical balance and those of Hillary on the other side, the balance is practically in the middle. Some look at it and see it tipping to one side. Others see it tipping a little to the other side. These are people who generally agree on most things, but they don’t agree on which way the balance tips. These are not people who should be hating on each other.

    These same people, all of them, if it were Lyin’ Ted or Little Marco on one side and Hillary on the other would see the balance tipping pretty much all the way to one side.

    Yes exactly!  That is why this year is so sad in so many ways…

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