A Fighting Chance for Integrity

 

hillary_clinton_donald_trumpAs someone who believes that excessive partisanship and Balkanization is poisoning our politics, I have tried to view Hillary Clinton as something other than the ghoul she is portrayed as in conservative circles. No accusation against her is considered too outlandish to gain assent in some precincts of the right. Vince Foster was murdered. Clinton covered up a cocaine smuggling operation in Arkansas. She assassinated Kathleen Willey’s cat.

It seems a waste of effort to conjure lurid theories about Hillary Clinton when the truth is thoroughly, totally damning. Of course all politicians shade the truth to some degree and we’re not electing a pastor and all that – but as a voter, one likes to believe that candidates are at least operating broadly within the same moral universe as the rest of us. She isn’t — and neither is Donald Trump.

As the new report from the State Department’s Inspector General hammers home, Hillary Clinton endangered US secrets and then repeatedly lied about it. “Everything I did was permitted,” she has claimed. Actually, while serving as Secretary of State, the Department sent out an advisory over her signature to all State Department employees warning them against transacting public business on private emails. Not clear if the dateline of that cable was Chappaqua, NY…

Clinton has maintained that classified material was never discussed on her bathroom server system. In March 2015, Clinton said “I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email.” But the State Department itself has declined to release 22 Clinton emails because they were deemed secret. Having been trapped in a lie, Mrs. Clinton has attempted to cloud the issue by criticizing the over-classification that afflicts government departments. Maybe it does, but even matters that are not strictly top secret are sensitive when you are the Secretary of State.

This is where we enter the different moral universe. Of the more than 300 million Americans, how many would be casual to the point of reckless about national security information falling into the hands of our enemies?

I worked in the White House for Ronald Reagan and recall with special intensity the protocols that governed handling secret materials. This was before the email age. Classified documents were paper. They were kept in a safe. They did not leave the grounds. You were careful to the point of reverence about classified materials. It was a high honor to be entrusted with them.

Hillary Clinton couldn’t be bothered to trouble herself about security. Why? Who knows? Perhaps she didn’t want Freedom of Information requests to reveal that she was selling valuable American policies in return for contributions to the Clinton Foundation, as alleged in set ital Clinton Cash end ital. Perhaps she feared congressional investigators would comb through her records in search of damaging revelations that would harm her political chances (yes, the irony here is rich). Whatever the reason, she has demonstrated utter contempt for the American people by endangering national security. When caught, she stares straight into your face and lies. When old lies are exposed, she concocts new lies without shame.

Donald Trump has not yet had the opportunity to endanger American security. So far, he has merely been able to cause tremors of panic among American allies and among those Americans who blanche at the thought of such an unstable, emotionally stunted man with access to the nuclear codes. But he lies with as much or greater fluency than she. Trump deceives not just about petty matters – his polling numbers, how many books he’s sold, whether his vodka or steak brand is still in business – but about serious matters as well. Thousands of American Muslims were not celebrating in the streets on 9/11. Ford did not cancel plans for a factory in Mexico in response to Trump criticism. Trump did not oppose the Iraq War pre-invasion. We are not “losing” $500 billion a year in trade with China. Our trade deficit with China was $365 billion last year, and it’s not “losing” — we are buying products. Wisconsin’s “real” unemployment rate is not anywhere close to 20 percent.

American primary voters have left us with this excruciating choice. Both candidates fail to clear even the lowest bar of basic political/personal decency, far less offering anything approaching responsible leadership.

With such a choice looming, and with 6 in 10 voters expressing disgust with both candidates, an independent run by Mitt Romney would be a lifeline. One could praise Romney in many ways, but I give you the times: Romney is not a corrupt, despicable liar. If, in democracies, people get the government they deserve, at least let there be a fighting chance for integrity.

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  1. Mona Charen Member
    Mona Charen
    @MonaCharen

    Hypatia:

    Dustoff:Mona,

    The photograph you select of Mr. Trump for your post says it all. Why bother with the pretext of the text?

    I’m not sure whose side you’re on , Dustoff, but you point out something that has been going on ever since Trump announced. All the still photos we ever see look like this.

    You coulda found a worse one of HillBilly, btw; compared to Trump, she just looks like a loudmouth–which, of course, was Mona’s goal.

    It’s very easy to catch anyone, especially someone making a speech to a crowd, in an ugly, insane looking grimace. But usually, the media choose a more flattering picture from the montage. ( Ever seen a bad one of Omega? He’s always flashing his nuclear-disarming grin, or gazing contemplatively into the future.)

    Remember the great outrage that ensued over just one picture of the very pretty Mrs. Cruz, caught in an unflattering grimace?

    But it’s not workin’! These scary stills don’t stick in our minds, because Trump is always on TV live. He doesn’t hide from us. He’ll answer any question, any time.

    Mona will say this is because the media unfairly give him so much coverage.

    I say it’s because: he is news.

    I do not choose the pictures that accompany my posts.

    • #31
  2. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Mona Charen:

    Hypatia:

    Dustoff:Mona,

    The photograph you select of Mr. Trump for your post says it all. Why bother with the pretext of the text?

    I’m not sure whose side you’re on , Dustoff, but you point out something that has been going on ever since Trump announced. All the still photos we ever see look like this.

    You coulda found a worse one of HillBilly, btw; compared to Trump, she just looks like a loudmouth–which, of course, was Mona’s goal.

    It’s very easy to catch anyone, especially someone making a speech to a crowd, in an ugly, insane looking grimace. But usually, the media choose a more flattering picture from the montage. ( Ever seen a bad one of Omega? He’s always flashing his nuclear-disarming grin, or gazing contemplatively into the future.)

    Remember the great outrage that ensued over just one picture of the very pretty Mrs. Cruz, caught in an unflattering grimace?

    But it’s not workin’! These scary stills don’t stick in our minds, because Trump is always on TV live. He doesn’t hide from us. He’ll answer any question, any time.

    Mona will say this is because the media unfairly give him so much coverage.

    I say it’s because: he is news.

    I do not choose the pictures that accompany my posts.

    Oh, I see!  Of course you don’t; I’m a legal journalist, and I don’t get to pick the layout of my pieces.

    So, it’s the editorial class who are responsible for this widespread effort at assassination by camera.

    • #32
  3. Mona Charen Member
    Mona Charen
    @MonaCharen

    Petty Boozswha:Mona it’s good to see you commenting, and to be able to agree with you wholeheartedly again… Now if we could just crack your hardheaded opinions on immigration.

    For those who don’t know my views on immigration, let me restate them. Perhaps we don’t disagree as much as you think?  The great migration from the south is a problem on the way to solving itself. Birthrates are way down in Mexico and in Latin America. I am opposed to illegal immigration. We should get control of visa overstays who are 40 to 50 percent of illegals living here. If UPS can track packages, we should be able to track visa holders.

    We should adopt a path to legalization for those who were brought here as children or have been here for long periods of time. This would require proving English proficiency, no criminal record (excluding the crime of coming or staying here illegally), paying a fine, and accepting legal status without citizenship. Going forward we should continue to police the borders, which has been quite effective.

    We should increase the number of visas for highly educated immigrants who create jobs.

    Those are my radical proposals.

    • #33
  4. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Mona Charen:

    Petty Boozswha:Mona it’s good to see you commenting, and to be able to agree with you wholeheartedly again… Now if we could just crack your hardheaded opinions on immigration.

    For those who don’t know my views on immigration, let me restate them. Perhaps we don’t disagree as much as you think? The great migration from the south is a problem on the way to solving itself. Birthrates are way down in Mexico and in Latin America. I am opposed to illegal immigration. We should get control of visa overstays who are 40 to 50 percent of illegals living here. If UPS can track packages, we should be able to track visa holders.

    We should adopt a path to legalization for those who were brought here as children or have been here for long periods of time. This would require proving English proficiency, no criminal record (excluding the crime of coming or staying here illegally), paying a fine, and accepting legal status without citizenship. Going forward we should continue to police the borders, which has been quite effective.

    We should increase the number of visas for highly educated immigrants who create jobs.

    Those are my radical proposals.

    “Been here for long periods of time”: Call me crazy, but I do think it’s “radical” to propose that the longer someone has been getting away with breaking the law, the more we should reward them .  That’s what you’re proposing.  It’s just an incentive to enter illegally. A very powerful incentive , as has been demonstrated by the great surges we saw across the border every time Omega signaled the message: if you get in, you can stay in.

    “Brought here as children”:  By their lawbreaking parents?  And please, don’t bleat about “breaking up families”.  They can all leave. That’s what I don’t get about Jeb!’s “act of love” remark.  The US isn’t breaking up families, the illegal entrants are.

    Visa  overstays or border crashes, why do they come here?  To make more money.  This is not the Berlin Wall.

    • #34
  5. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    Romney was a terrible choice 4 years ago and would be so again. He is surely a great man. He would surely govern well and perhaps even conservatively, but he has not been the candidate we need at any point in the last 40-50 years. The election is largely a cult of personality contest, and we have to find someone who can win (or at least compete) in that arena but also meets the minimum ideological standards. Trump overwhelmingly passes in the first, but fails miserably on the second. Romney fails miserably on the first and is questionable on the second. Should we get a 3 way (or even 4 way with Bernie) race I would still be inclined to vote none of the above.

    • #35
  6. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Hartmann von Aue: The most interesting part of this debacle has been that the very people who claimed they had no respect for RINOs or the GOPe have given their primary votes to the most RINO and GOPe-y of the entire field.

    You might want to tune that statement for accuracy.

    • #36
  7. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Basil Fawlty:I’m still pulling for John McCain.

    I’m for Reagan. He would be less of a stiff then Romney.

    • #37
  8. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    Bryan G. Stephens: Now, I think, if that happens, the GOP will lose every Trump Primary voter mark forever, as it will be a clear signal that the elites don’t care what the people want.

    Fixed it for you.

    • #38
  9. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    Bryan G. Stephens: What you are proposing would cause riots. People would be burning things, because they would have been shown that their votes and voices do not matter.

    Will those same people also riot when Trump can’t bring their jobs back?  Because there is literally no way any president could do that. Technology has increased productivity so much that those jobs are gone forever.

    I think most people sense this but they don’t want to deal with reality so they put their trust in a con man like Trump who simply can’t help them.

    • #39
  10. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    Hypatia: Moanin’ Mona again. Romney had his chance, and l.o.s.t. A “lifeline”? More like a zip line, down to another defeat.

    Hypatia, please read the Ricochet CofC.  Mona Charen is a respected conservative pundit who is expressing her opinion.  She doesn’t deserve having conspiracy enthusiasts like you call her names.  Take it to Breitbart.

    • #40
  11. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Frozen Chosen:

    Bryan G. Stephens: What you are proposing would cause riots. People would be burning things, because they would have been shown that their votes and voices do not matter.

    Will those same people also riot when Trump can’t bring their jobs back? Because there is literally no way any president could do that. Technology has increased productivity so much that those jobs are gone forever.

    I think most people sense this but they don’t want to deal with reality so they put their trust in a con man like Trump who simply can’t help them.

    Here’s a nice example of how some people think Trump supporters are literally stupid.

    No one thinks the job they lost will be returned. They believe that  the general actions Trump is proposing will help improve our economy, increasing their chances for a new job, a better return on their investments a better use of their tax dollars and everything else.

    Smart people know better than to think others are stupid and then dismiss them outright by dumbing-down their own analysis.

    • #41
  12. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Frozen Chosen:

    Hypatia: Moanin’ Mona again. Romney had his chance, and l.o.s.t. A “lifeline”? More like a zip line, down to another defeat.

    Hypatia, please read the Ricochet CofC. Mona Charen is a respected conservative pundit who is expressing her opinion. She doesn’t deserve having conspiracy enthusiasts like you call her names. Take it to Breitbart.

    …and I don’t  deserve to be called a conspiracy theorist.  Or is that Ricochetspeak for anyone who points out facts you don’t agree with?  I didn’t know verbs were forbidden.

    • #42
  13. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    Franco: No one thinks the job they lost will be returned. They believe that the general actions Trump is proposing will help improve our economy, increasing their chances for a new job, a better return on their investments a better use of their tax dollars and everything else.

    No one?  Really?  Trump says he will bring the jobs back.  From his website;

    1. Reclaim millions of American jobs and reviving American manufacturing by putting an end to China’s illegal export subsidies and lax labor and environmental standards. No more sweatshops or pollution havens stealing jobs from American workers.

    Do his supporters believe him?  You evidently don’t.  What else has he said that you don’t believe?

    Your more nuanced belief of what Trump can/will do as president cannot possibly be extrapolated to the same as his millions of other supporters.  Ricochet members are far more politically informed than 90% of the voters.  You give them too much credit.

    • #43
  14. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    Hypatia: And please, let me tell you: I remember the Muslims cheering on 9/11. I had a friend who worked with the NYC cops, who related how they had to protect the celebrations in the mosques while their fellow police and firemen were dying in the towers. Giuliani confirmed that it happened. I also remember that the NY Times decided not to report on it. It’s been pretty much scrubbed from the net now–although, had you been willing, you’d a seen confirmation of it in old TV footage at the time Trump made this remark. You can quibble with the “thousands” number, but what he said is true. Sheeuh, it’s not that long ago! Other people besides me and Giuliani must remember it. I remember it because I have never ceased talking about it myself.

    This is sheer bunk, believed only by Trump and people like yourselves.  Classic conspiracy theory.

    • #44
  15. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Frozen Chosen:

    Hypatia: And please, let me tell you: I remember the Muslims cheering on 9/11. I had a friend who worked with the NYC cops, who related how they had to protect the celebrations in the mosques while their fellow police and firemen were dying in the towers. Giuliani confirmed that it happened. I also remember that the NY Times decided not to report on it. It’s been pretty much scrubbed from the net now–although, had you been willing, you’d a seen confirmation of it in old TV footage at the time Trump made this remark. You can quibble with the “thousands” number, but what he said is true. Sheeuh, it’s not that long ago! Other people besides me and Giuliani must remember it. I remember it because I have never ceased talking about it myself.

    This is sheer bunk, believed only by Trump and people like yourselves. Classic conspiracy theory.

    How would you know?

    Truth is, you don’t.

    You don’t even know what a conspiracy theory is! There is a difference between a conspiracy theory and a misreporting of fact.

    What you mean to say, if you weren’t projecting your own conspiracy theories around, is that Hypatia is wrong. However, that is impossible for you to do because you have no way of knowing. You might also say Hypatia is lying. Again you have no way of knowing.

    • #45
  16. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    I have reason to believe that what she says is true. I saw footage of celebrations in the Middle East. I have walked past radical Muslims in NYC and had them stare at me with utter contempt and hatred, block the street and make me walk around them. There are Muslims in America who hate us. More than thousands. Tens of thousands at least.

    So why wouldn’t these hateful radicals – the subset of all Muslims here – not celebrate? Are they qualitatively different from Muslims elsewhere merely because they are here on American soil?

    • #46
  17. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Franco:

    Frozen Chosen:

    Hypatia: And please, let me tell you: I remember the Muslims cheering on 9/11. I had a friend who worked with the NYC cops, who related how they had to protect the celebrations in the mosques while their fellow police and firemen were dying in the towers. Giuliani confirmed that it happened. I also remember that the NY Times decided not to report on it. It’s been pretty much scrubbed from the net now–although, had you been willing, you’d a seen confirmation of it in old TV footage at the time Trump made this remark. You can quibble with the “thousands” number, but what he said is true. Sheeuh, it’s not that long ago! Other people besides me and Giuliani must remember it. I remember it because I have never ceased talking about it myself.

    This is sheer bunk, believed only by Trump and people like yourselves. Classic conspiracy theory.

    How would you know?

    Truth is, you don’t.

    Last I heard, there was at least one contemporary media account of such celebration, but Trump’s numbers were apparently greatly exaggerated.

    • #47
  18. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Franco:I have reason to believe that what she says is true. I saw footage of celebrations in the Middle East. I have walked past radical Muslims in NYC and had them stare at me with utter contempt and hatred, block the street and make me walk around them. There are Muslims in America who hate us. More than thousands. Tens of thousands at least.

    So why wouldn’t these hateful radicals – the subset of all Muslims here – not celebrate? Are they qualitatively different from Muslims elsewhere merely because they are here on American soil?

    Exactly.  And this happened on  the day itself, while the rest of us were still hoping maybe some kinda freak air traffic control screwup had occurred.  This means  2 things: (1) they were happy about it. (2) and much worse, they knew immediately what had happened. They were anticipating it.

    I am saying I remember it.

    Personally.

    A conspiracy theorist of one.

    • #48
  19. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    Franco:I have reason to believe that what she says is true. I saw footage of celebrations in the Middle East. I have walked past radical Muslims in NYC and had them stare at me with utter contempt and hatred, block the street and make me walk around them. There are Muslims in America who hate us. More than thousands. Tens of thousands at least.

    So why wouldn’t these hateful radicals – the subset of all Muslims here – not celebrate? Are they qualitatively different from Muslims elsewhere merely because they are here on American soil?

    I have no doubt that there were a few radical Muslims in the U.S. who cheered when the towers came down and probably thousands in Muslim countries who did but that is not what Trump said.  He said he saw footage of thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering. There is simply no proof of that.  And it didn’t mysteriously “disappear” from the internet.

    I will grant however that there are probably thousands of Trump supporters who “believe” they saw the footage – but then again they also believe that Trump is honest.

    • #49
  20. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Frozen Chosen: He said he saw footage of thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering. There is simply no proof of that. And it didn’t mysteriously “disappear” from the internet.

    But Hypatia acknowledged that it was probably exaggerated in the very comment thatr you quoted. If there were ten, it’s too many.

    I imagine Trump conflated what he saw with other reports. Inaccurate representation of fact yes. Of spirt? No.

    Is that something TPTB at the time should have highlighted? No. Because that would incense Americans unnecessarily at a time when innocent Muslims could have been attacked.

    Now that we are 15 years removed and wondering whether to import more of these people, should it be referenced? Yes.

    • #50
  21. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Note:

    Name-calling.

    Frozen Chosen:

    Franco:I have reason to believe that what she says is true. I saw footage of celebrations in the Middle East. I have walked past radical Muslims in NYC and had them stare at me with utter contempt and hatred, block the street and make me walk around them. There are Muslims in America who hate us. More than thousands. Tens of thousands at least.

    So why wouldn’t these hateful radicals – the subset of all Muslims here – not celebrate? Are they qualitatively different from Muslims elsewhere merely because they are here on American soil?

    I have no doubt that there were a few radical Muslims in the U.S. who cheered when the towers came down and probably thousands in Muslim countries who did but that is not what Trump said. He said he saw footage of thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering. There is simply no proof of that. And it didn’t mysteriously “disappear” from the internet.

    I will grant however that there are probably thousands of Trump supporters who “believe” they saw the footage – but then again they also believe that Trump is honest.

    Ri-i-i-ght….like [redacted] “believes” Romney could end up president.

    • #51
  22. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    Hypatia:

    So, it’s the editorial class who are responsible for this widespread effort at assassination by camera.

    First, I didn’t realize we constituted a class. Do I get perks? Jon, are you holding out on me!?

    Second, and more seriously, pictures of candidates often exaggerate their personalities. Pictures of Rubio and Ryan tend to capture them looking young and boyish… because Rubio and Ryan look kinda young and boyish (Ryan should have kept the beard, IMHO). Pictures of Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz make them look a awkward and dorky because… Cruz and Bush look kinda awkward and dorky. Trump is extremely expressive and tends to talk at rallies, so it’s hardly surprising that the pictures often reflect that.

    And in all these cases, you folks really should see the pictures we don’t use. If we wanted to make people look as bad as possible, you’d know it.

    • #52
  23. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    BTW, here are some reasonably unflattering pictures of non-Trump candidates that have been used on the main feed in recent months:

    640px-Ted_cruz_2011

    Andrew Cline / Shutterstock.com image By Gage Skidmore, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=45071058 Marco-Rubio--777x437 1200px-Jeb_Bush_by_Gage_Skidmore_5 shutterstock_79412587

    • #53
  24. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Mona Charen:

    For those who don’t know my views on immigration, let me restate them…

    We should adopt a path to legalization for those who were brought here as children …This would require proving English proficiency, no criminal record … paying a fine, and accepting legal status without citizenship… 

    We should increase the number of visas for highly educated immigrants who create jobs.

    Those are my radical proposals.

    I agree with almost all of your proposals. I’m sure you are too busy to read Ricochet comments compulsively, but I am on record here as saying I sympathize with the illegal aliens, and if I were confronted with the same set of incentives and deterrents and my kids were hungry I would be here as well. Where we disagree is on the need for a wall, which I cannot comprehend opposition to after the experiences of Europe in the last year, let alone our own experience. Second your wish list of conditions are nonstarters – after amnesty do you honestly think someone will be deported for not paying a fine? We need the wall, Visa enforcement, E-Verify and a short moratorium on almost all immigration first, then we can discuss America being 100,000 times more generous than Latin culture would be to us if the ratios of power and influence were reversed. Anything else is is like listening to a child promise to eat his broccoli later if we give him ice cream now.

    • #54
  25. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Frozen Chosen:

    Bryan G. Stephens: What you are proposing would cause riots. People would be burning things, because they would have been shown that their votes and voices do not matter.

    Will those same people also riot when Trump can’t bring their jobs back? Because there is literally no way any president could do that. Technology has increased productivity so much that those jobs are gone forever.

    I think most people sense this but they don’t want to deal with reality so they put their trust in a con man like Trump who simply can’t help them.

    You really have missed the point about what the anger is about.

    • #55
  26. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Frozen Chosen:

    Bryan G. Stephens: What you are proposing would cause riots. People would be burning things, because they would have been shown that their votes and voices do not matter.

    Will those same people also riot when Trump can’t bring their jobs back? Because there is literally no way any president could do that. Technology has increased productivity so much that those jobs are gone forever.

    I think most people sense this but they don’t want to deal with reality so they put their trust in a con man like Trump who simply can’t help them.

    You really have missed the point about what the anger is about.

    The problem is that the anger is kind of amorphous and cloud-like.  Sure, there are lots of reasons given, but after awhile they begin to sound suspiciously like whiny leftism.

    • #56
  27. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Merina Smith: The problem is that the anger is kind of amorphous and cloud-like. Sure, there are lots of reasons given, but after awhile they begin to sound suspiciously like whiny leftism.

    Except it’s not whiny leftism. Anger as an human emotion arises when promises are not met, when people realize they are being lied to and when people aren’t getting what they signed up for. It’s quite a normal emotion. Wives can be angry at their husbands and voters can be angry with the politicians they elected. Often the anger is justified.

    What is important is why people are angry. You don’t get it. That’s okay. But anger is the symptom of something wrong, not wrong of itself.

    • #57
  28. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Merina Smith:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Frozen Chosen:

    Bryan G. Stephens: What you are proposing would cause riots. People would be burning things, because they would have been shown that their votes and voices do not matter.

    Will those same people also riot when Trump can’t bring their jobs back? Because there is literally no way any president could do that. Technology has increased productivity so much that those jobs are gone forever.

    I think most people sense this but they don’t want to deal with reality so they put their trust in a con man like Trump who simply can’t help them.

    You really have missed the point about what the anger is about.

    The problem is that the anger is kind of amorphous and cloud-like. Sure, there are lots of reasons given, but after awhile they begin to sound suspiciously like whiny leftism.

    You really have missed the point about what the anger is about.

    • #58
  29. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    The Reticulator:

    Merina Smith:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Frozen Chosen:

    Bryan G. Stephens: What you are proposing would cause riots. People would be burning things, because they would have been shown that their votes and voices do not matter.

    Will those same people also riot when Trump can’t bring their jobs back? Because there is literally no way any president could do that. Technology has increased productivity so much that those jobs are gone forever.

    I think most people sense this but they don’t want to deal with reality so they put their trust in a con man like Trump who simply can’t help them.

    You really have missed the point about what the anger is about.

    The problem is that the anger is kind of amorphous and cloud-like. Sure, there are lots of reasons given, but after awhile they begin to sound suspiciously like whiny leftism.

    You really have missed the point about what the anger is about.

    Also,  your complaint is rather amorphous and cloud-like.  It sounds suspiciously like whiny GOP-Establishmentism.

    • #59
  30. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    Folks, it’s a long weekend. Enough with the sniping.

    • #60
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