President Trump: Defender of Religious Freedom?

 

At this point, I expect Donald Trump will likely be the nominee, and — if he can overcome his huge negatives and is as good at demolishing Hillary Clinton as he was his Republican competitors — he may well be our next president. My point here is that he might be, counterintuitively, more successful on religious liberty and culture war issues than Senator Ted Cruz would be.

Why? Well, as a devout Christian, Cruz would be a lightning rod for the Left as was John Ashcroft, and any attempt to defend or restore 1st Amendment rights to Christians would encounter fierce opposition. Conversely, the more profane and socially-liberal Trump’s apparent indifference to issues like traditional marriage might give him an advantage if he plays it right. That is, he could say he has no problem with gay relationships but simply opposes punishing Christians who merely don’t want to be coerced to be involved in activities that violate their beliefs. His lack of a record of opposing gay rights might make his defense of religious rights more palatable — or at, least, harder to attack — politically.

Your thoughts?

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  1. Josh Farnsworth Member
    Josh Farnsworth
    @

    TeamAmerica:

    Josh Farnsworth:

    TeamAmerica:

    Why? Well, as a devout Christian, Cruz would be a lightning rod for the Left as was John Ashcroft, and any attempt to defend or restore 1st Amendment rights to Christians would encounter fierce opposition. Conversely, the more profane and socially-liberal Trump’s apparent indifference to issues like traditional marriage might give him an advantage if he plays it right. That is, he could say he has no problem with gay relationships but simply opposes punishing Christians who merely don’t want to be coerced to be involved in activities that violate their beliefs. His lack of a record of opposing gay rights might make his defense of religious rights more palatable — or at, least, harder to attack — politically.

    Your thoughts?

    Cruz has no record of “opposoing gay rights.” Favoring traditional marriage is not “opposition to gay rights.” If you disagree, it means the activists in support of gay marriage have already won the public opinion battle in addition to the court battle.

    I didn’t say he had a record of opposition to gay rights, but to the media/left a conservative Christian would be stereotyped and treated as a piniata, and the truth would be irrelevant.

    So we look to perception only and assume someone cannot effect perception unless they are a Democrat?

    • #31
  2. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    @Josh Farnsworth- “Both statements prove Trump does not understand our country, our laws, or our constitution. He does understand our media.”

    As I said above these are political tactics. Contrary to what you may be assuming, I am not a Trump supporter (My preferences were Christie, Rubio, Fiorina and Cruz). My point and my hope is that if a Trump presidency becomes a reality, it will not be a disaster, but that he will make reasonable compromises.

    As far as shutting down mosques, perhaps what he really means is that he would prosecute imams who advocate violent jihad, which is already illegal. The problem with Trump is determining what are his goals, vs. media/political tactics.

    • #32
  3. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    @Josh Farnsworth- “So we look to perception only and assume someone cannot effect perception unless they are a Democrat?”

    Remember how the media and the Democrats created a perception of Romney. Millionaire Obama preached that we are our brother’s keeper, while doing nothing to aid his brother in Kenya who lived in abject poverty. Conversely, the media/Democrats were able to portray Romney as mean and selfish, though he gives 1/3 of his income to charity.

    So, iow, combating media/Democratic propaganda and the perceptions they create has not been a Republican strength, except for 2004 and 2008.

    • #33
  4. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    Brian McMenomy:Sorry, not buying it. Defense of “abstract” principles isn’t something Trump does. Shoot, understanding abstract principles isn’t something he does. If the principle bumps up against a business deal, the principle takes a walk. A defense of religious liberty takes moral courage; how would Trump be any different from the Governor of Georgia, who not only caved, but excoriated his own voters as bigots for not wanting to force people to violate their consciences?

    We’ll need to follow Milton Friedman’s advice if Trump is the nominee-“Focus less on electing the ‘right’ people, and focus more on creating an environment where the ‘wrong’ people do the right thing because it’s in their interest to do so.”

    I would want Trump to believe that he would need to do as I suggest to stir up his base to get re-elected.

    • #34
  5. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    @Brian McMenomy, Susan Quinn, Tabula Rasa, Paul Dougherty and Solar Eclipse- Please see my comment #34.

    I am hoping that self-interest would push him to defend Religious freedom, much as protests against Bush’s nominating Harriet Reid to the Supreme Court led him to nominate John Roberts instead (although granted, that did not turn out as well as we had expected).

    • #35
  6. Josh Farnsworth Member
    Josh Farnsworth
    @

    TeamAmerica:@Brian McMenomy, Susan Quinn, Tabula Rasa, Paul Dougherty and Solar Eclipse- Please see my comment #34.

    I am hoping that self-interest would push him to defend Religious freedom, much as protests against Bush’s nominating Harriet Reid to the Supreme Court led him to nominate John Roberts instead (although granted, that did not turn out as well as we had expected).

    A hope rather than a promise.  Sums up the contrast between Trump and Cruz perfectly.

    • #36
  7. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    Josh Farnsworth:

    TeamAmerica:@Brian McMenomy, Susan Quinn, Tabula Rasa, Paul Dougherty and Solar Eclipse- Please see my comment #34.

    I am hoping that self-interest would push him to defend Religious freedom, much as protests against Bush’s nominating Harriet Reid to the Supreme Court led him to nominate John Roberts instead (although granted, that did not turn out as well as we had expected).

    A hope rather than a promise. Sums up the contrast between Trump and Cruz perfectly.

    True, but given Cruz’s lack of likability, and his preachy style, I worry that he- A. Won’t get elected and B. If he is, he will have trouble stirring up popular support for his policies.

    Trump is by contrast a known quantity to most people, has a commanding presence and a Ross Perot-like record of pragmatic accomplishment, which might help him get things done.

    In spite of his lack of executive experience I would’ve preferred Rubio, but that ship has sailed, at least for this electoral cycle.

    • #37
  8. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    TeamAmerica: My point here is that he might be, counterintuitively, more successful on religious liberty and culture war issues than Senator Ted Cruz would be.

    By that logic, Hillary (pro-choice Methodist) would be a better defender of religious freedom than Trump, and Sanders (a secular Jew with no strong connection to organized religion) would be best of all.

    Thanks, TeamAmerica. You’ve really helped me make up my mind.

    • #38
  9. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    Percival:

    TeamAmerica: My point here is that he might be, counterintuitively, more successful on religious liberty and culture war issues than Senator Ted Cruz would be.

    By that logic, Hillary (pro-choice Methodist) would be a better defender of religious freedom than Trump, and Sanders (a secular Jew with no strong connection to organized religion) would be best of all.

    Thanks, TeamAmerica. You’ve really helped me make up my mind.

    All right, be sarcastic, but Trump would need to stir up his base to get re-elected, so he’d have that as an incentive, unlike Hillary or Sanders, provided it was made clear to him that it was an important issue. And given his profane image, it would be hard for Dems and the media to depict him as an intolerant religious fanatic. So he’d likely stir up less of a backlash from the left. (For the record, the ‘culture war issues’ was not what I wrote, but a change made by our editors.)

    • #39
  10. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Logic is a harsh master, and edge cases can be a bear.

    • #40
  11. Josh Farnsworth Member
    Josh Farnsworth
    @

    TeamAmerica: True, but given Cruz’s lack of likability, and his preachy style, I worry that he- A. Won’t get elected and B. If he is, he will have trouble stirring up popular support for his policies.

    As far as I can recall Trump has higher negatives and more sticky negatives than Cruz in all demos.

    • #41
  12. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    Josh Farnsworth:

    TeamAmerica: True, but given Cruz’s lack of likability, and his preachy style, I worry that he- A. Won’t get elected and B. If he is, he will have trouble stirring up popular support for his policies.

    As far as I can recall Trump has higher negatives and more sticky negatives than Cruz in all demos.

    True. But I’m guessing that the Donald with his clever campaigning and populist style will be more able to overcome his negatives than Cruz, but I could well be wrong. Fwiw, my expectations have been heavily influenced by this:

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/139541975641/the-trump-master-persuader-index-and-reading-list

    And more particularly this:

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/139172970011/policies-and-name-recognition-trump-persuasion

    • #42
  13. Josh Farnsworth Member
    Josh Farnsworth
    @

    TeamAmerica:

    Josh Farnsworth:

    TeamAmerica: True, but given Cruz’s lack of likability, and his preachy style, I worry that he- A. Won’t get elected and B. If he is, he will have trouble stirring up popular support for his policies.

    As far as I can recall Trump has higher negatives and more sticky negatives than Cruz in all demos.

    True. But I’m guessing that the Donald with his clever campaigning and populist style will be more able to overcome his negatives than Cruz, but I could well be wrong. Fwiw, my expectations have been heavily influenced by this:

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/139541975641/the-trump-master-persuader-index-and-reading-list

    And more particularly this:

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/139172970011/policies-and-name-recognition-trump-persuasion

    I think James Carville is a better prognosticator than Adams, and he has been talking about the strength of Cruz since just after the midterms.

    • #43
  14. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    Josh-Also this:

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/143006237056/the-trump-chess-board

    And from Scott Dilbert doing a AMA (whatever that means) on Reddit:

    [–]s_p_threeVA 185 points 8 days ago

    Right now, Trump’s unfavorability numbers make a landslide victory seem daunting. What do you think will change in order to allow for a yuge victory in the general election?

    [–]ScottAdamsSaysVerified Scott Adams[S] 436 points 8 days ago

    Let me walk you through this.

    Let’s say Trump’s unfavorability is 70%, which is ghastly.

    But he’s running against Clinton who is at 58% or so.

    That’s a difference of 12. Trump only needs to persuade half of that gap to change their minds and it is a tie.

    Can the best persuader of all time move the public 6 points in six months?

    All he needs to do is improve his own rating by 3 and decrease Clinton’s by 3.

    And what if Clinton is indicted?

    And what does Trump need to do to improve his favorability that much?

    He could just stop acting provocative for a few months. Or he could get a haircut.

    Trump’s path is almost laughably easy if he gets nominated.

    • #44
  15. Sabrdance Member
    Sabrdance
    @Sabrdance

    Here’s your answer:

    No.

    • #45
  16. tigerlily Member
    tigerlily
    @tigerlily

    Sabrdance:Here’s your answer:

    No.

    Right. Why anyone would think for a moment that Trump would be a defender of religious liberty is beyond me. New York values and all.

    • #46
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