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Are You #NeverTrump?
For months, we’ve speculated, theorized, and (occasionally) hyperventilated over how we’ll vote in the general election. So — with the stipulations that the following poll makes no pretense of scientific accuracy and that the Ricochetti have polled quite differently than Republicans at large — let’s shed a little light on how members of The Smartest Conversation on the Right intend to vote this coming November:
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Incidentally, we are a loyal bunch here compared with the Republicans I know in real life, most of whom have already made their peace with voting for Hillary.
I am not a Trump supporter but your list of international dangers seems like a pretty good reason that I could never vote for Hillary Clinton.
Jager, did you read the transcript of Trump’s foreign policy interview with the NY Times? Until I started to read what he said I would have thought no one could be worse on foreign policy than Clinton.
I was wrong, and not just a little bit.
If there had been a “not committed to #NeverTrump” option, I would have chosen it.
As it was, the #MaybeTrump option read, “I COULD support [Trump] if he wins the nomination,” which left me hesitant. I don’t yet know whether I could or couldn’t. So I flipped a coin.
There are only so many hours in a day, so if I write a snarky or pithy response to each of the never Trumpers or third party aficionados, I’ll be here until tomorrow. The current tally on this poll hardly surprises. It is indeed good news that the results don’t match that of the electorate at large, so there is hope.
Anyone who is so shackled to their personal disdain for Trump that they’d actually help Hillary get elected is about to do a great disservice to our nation. She is evil, period. Please act like adults and don’t think about shirking your civil responsibilities.
Might it occur to you that Trump is a patriot with bad hair and worse speech, but he loves America? Very few politicians do.
I was certain that my Mom and Step-father would be full on Cruz supporters but no, they hate him for some reason. They have drunk the Trump Kool-aid and won’t vote in the general if he isn’t the nominee.
I do not know how representative they are of Trump supporters overall.
I have at least ended my visit and am no longer subjected to the rants so that is nice.
I agree that Trump is confusing and an concern on foreign policy. I would totally understand an argument for a 3rd party candidate, not an argument for Clinton. Clinton is running for Obama’s third term and was the Secretary of State. Under the Obama/Clinton foreign policy we got international destabilization, the Iran nuke deal and Russia invading the Ukraine. Everything you are worried about is already happening and will not stop with a Clinton Presidency.
No, that would never occur to me because nothing in his history supports that. His entire life demonstrates only that Trump loves Trump. Period.
Trump is polling so far behind Hillary that our only hope is him being denied 1237 delegates.
He is her equal in this regard.
Might it occur to you that he is a fool who lacks even basic morality?
You think I don’t know that? But there’s unwise, and then there’s terrifyingly ignorant, and given a choice between the two, I think we have to pick unwise.
If the #NeverTrump people put up a Third Party candidate, I will be looking for a Fourth Party, because that movement is mostly moderate amnesty supporters.
To my mind you have one candidate in Clinton who is guaranteed to make thinks worse and one candidate in Trump who we have no clue what will happen. I cannot bring myself to vote for guaranteed problems.
I am not trying to get you to vote for Trump and you cannot convince me to vote for Clinton, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
People keep saying that. I say that the folks who support Trump may as well vote for HRC. It goes both ways, really. And as Franks has said, I’m not convinced it matters either way, if the choice is between those two.
Not necessarily, it’s mostly just people that want someone qualified to be President. The HLC podcasts guys said it best, with a statement along the lines of “I want him to win the election as a big “Screw you” to the GOP establishment, I just don’t want him to be President.”
Since Trump is for touchback amnesty, does he qualify as a moderate amnesty supporter?
There is outright supporting amnesty, and there is the recognition of the reality of the situation. The #NeverTrump people are largely in the second camp. No wall will be built, and 12 million people won’t be sent home. If your position is that those two things should be done, then you support amnesty, too, in practice. Because if we do not have realistic goals for immigration reform, then the de facto amnesty we have now will not change.
I couldn’t think of staying home unless the presidency is the only choice on the ballot. But too often we never give enough consideration to the importance of the rest of the ticket. I often leave blanks on my ballot for what I consider inconsequential offices (water district supervisor, etc.) or where the choices are equally distasteful or equally qualified, but I always manage to find several candidates and propositions that I care about in every election.
I’m tempted to flag this comment because this is not true, and if you don’t know it’s not true then you’re not paying attention. If you can’t defend Trump without spreading lies then stop posting.
[Editors’ Note: Spreading lies would imply ill-intent; as you suggested, however it could be incorrect without being a lie.]
Umbra Fractus: When I say I am looking for a “Fourth Party” candidate, and you call me a lying Trump supporter, I think your honesty and good faith is called into question.
Citation?
The last question should have an answer like (Vote GOP) for other offices, but leave a no vote for President. So with the choices I had I picked Stay Home, but that might give the wrong impression.
If you don’t vote for the Republican nominee, what do you expect to do instead?*
I think a draft movement is perfectly legitimate for the highest office in a republic. In fact, the ideal candidate is one who has been a patriot or statesman (such as Washington and Eisenhower) but never set the presidency as a lifetime goal (such as most of the current crop of candidates).
Depends on where you live. I picked “vote third party” because even the second coming of Christ could not win over *any* Democrat in my blue state. Actually, assuming the Christ is anti-abortion, he’d lose in a landslide. So I can vote third party and keep my conscious clear as not having voted for Trump or Clinton, but it will matter not a bit. The real struggle belongs to those noble souls in swing states.
No, it doesn’t depend on where you live. In the blue states (I am in one too), it doesn’t matter, as you say. But let us assume for the sake of argument that Trump could beat Hillary in the general. And let us assume also that the number of people who stay home rather than vote for Trump is sufficient to cause whatever theoretical lead Trump may have to evaporate, and Hillary then wins the general. Who’s fault is that? It is probably true, in that case, the the #NeverTrump crowd could be blamed for that loss. But, if you don’t assume that Trump can beat Hillary, if you instead assume the opposite, or if you assume at least that Trump is the least likely Republican primary candidate to beat Hillary, then it is in fact the fault of those who nominated Trump. So it depends not upon what state you live in, but rather which assumption you are willing to make. I for one think that the Republicans should have nominated someone who is a: likely to win against Hillary and b: unlikely to alienate a broad swath of the Republican base. We have not done so, and likely will not do so. So in fact, it is all of our faults. More than anyone else, I lay blame at both Rubio (my pick) and Cruz (my third pick). Those two should have gotten behind closed doors, and not come out until they worked a deal. If they love this country as much as they say they do, they should have worked a deal. They didn’t. So we find ourselves screwed, blued, and tatooed.
All that said, I also blame us. The Republicans, the grass roots conservatives. We had lots of good candidates this time around. And we blew it. It’s our fault as much as anyone elses. You can blame any one candidate for the faults they have. None of them have the faults the Trump has. Not a single one. Yet we’ve fallen for him, ass over teakettle. And as my dad says, if you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything.
Well, given the existence of the electoral college, I’d start with the states that could have swung one way or the other, which unlike Reagan in 1984, won’t be all of them (except MN and DC, of course). There is no scenario where any Republican, even the weirdness that is Trump, wins my state over the hard core Democratic electorate. Ergo, no, it really doesn’t matter if I vote third party.
I’m also not convinced that I’d know who to blame if Hilary beats Trump or Trump beats Hilary, because if it comes down to that contest, aren’t we all to blame?
Between your comment, the “cocktail party” thread, and the myriad other comments and threads telling me I’m an elitist, moderate, amnesty supporter (I am neither) simply because I refuse to make excuses for a man who wouldn’t know conservatism if he had the essence of William F. Buckley injected in directly into his veins, you’ll have to pardon me if I find admonishments about “good faith” a little hard to swallow.
Preach it, brother.
I’m fine with that. As long as I never, ever hear again that it’s my duty to vote for someone I have a problem with.
Easy fellas. We don’t want any trouble in here. Not in any language.
It isn’t your duty to vote for someone with whom you have a problem. But owing to the freedoms you have in this country, you have a duty to vote your conscience.
In my case, I cannot, in good conscience, vote for Donald Trump. Neither will I vote for Hillary. My conscience tells me to vote for someone, and that someone will probably be Gary Johnson.