The West’s Response to Mass Murder: Pretty Lights

 

On the BBC today I heard an interview with a Belgian member of the EU parliament. (She had the wavery, unearthly voice of the Talosians who imprisoned Captain Pike.) Her prescription for a unified response going forward to deal with the repercussions of the emanating penumbras of the unpleasantness at the airport: coordination. The police services are coordinated now, but they must be coordinated more. Barriers that prevent coordination must be addressed, and uncoordinated situations must be solved, and this can be done with a concerted effort to coordinate. The host was somewhat exasperated, and noted that Belgium had a large population of individuals who had gone to ISIS-land and come back. What about them?

The MP had a ready answer. Why, the EU Parliament had passed strong measures that permitted them to follow these individuals. It permitted the police to look at them.

That was her term. I’m sure she meant “investigate,” but even so, why would this take a special act? Because automatic scrutiny of bad actors might be seen as discriminatory, marginalizing, alienating? The idea of revoking citizenship of anyone who larks off to Syria to join the Bloody-Moon Army seems simple enough. As does incarceration and deportation for any non-citizen who’s even remotely connected to a terrorist attack. Well your honor I knew he was up to something with all the meetings and the wires and the mysterious men who kept dropping by, and after the attack he asked me to hide him and go to the man who had the passports, and yes I did that. But you have to understand —

GAVEL BANG Five years. Next case.

Never happen. I’ve no doubt there are serious hard-cases in European law-enforcement and counter-terrorism who would love to go weapons-free, so to speak, on the threat — and do so without caring whether it abrades the sensibilities of the technocratic stratum whose moral preening over the virtues of the post-national multi-cultural European identity got everyone in this fix. But that’s not enough.

See, here’s the odd thing. ISIS claimed responsibility, right?

Don’t we know where ISIS is? Don’t you think we have a reasonable idea where their C&C HQs are in those cities?

I’m not talking about a cruise missile response, but a MOAB over an ISIS stronghold. It won’t make them stop, but that’s not the point. It would make them pay, which you might consider an adequate short-term response. Next time? Two MOABs, two cities. The collateral damage would be horrific. No doubt it would renew their enthusiasm. So next time they get three.

It’s brutal, yes, but there are precedents set by much-beloved Democratic presidents.

Eventually the point has to sink in: you pay. Even if it doesn’t, there’s less ISIS, which would seem to be a good thing in the long run.

Such responses, however, seem unlikely these days. Outre; too . . . Russian. Would you approve? Would you consider it descending to their level? Or is it best to absorb and mourn, coordinate and look, and be prepared for the next attack. By which I mean: they’d better have the Eiffel Tower programmed for all the European countries’ colors. You’d hate to have 400 people killed in a Swedish airport and not be able to call up the flag-profile file that night. I mean, people would think you didn’t care.

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  1. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Larry3435:

    Liz:Lynch’s words show an unsurprisingly poor understanding of Constitutional law. “Edges toward violence” is meaningless, legally speaking.

    (If Sal or Larry would correct me on this, I would appreciate it!)

    The correct legal test, under Brandenburg v. Ohio, is “incitement to imminent lawless action.” I’ve never seen the phrase “edges toward violence” in a judicial opinion.

    Lynch used that phrase in another anti-free-speech context.  I think part of the commenter’s purpose was to mock her for it, as we should all do as opportunity permits.

    • #91
  2. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    James Lileks: Such responses, however, seem unlikely these days. Outre; too . . . Russian. Would you approve? Would you consider it descending to their level? Or is it best to absorb and mourn, coordinate and look, and be prepared for the next attack. By which I mean: they’d better have the Eiffel Tower programmed for all the European countries’ colors. You’d hate to have 400 people killed in a Swedish airport and not be able to call up the flag-profile file that night. I mean, people would think you didn’t care.

    I want to kill them all. This is not about niceties, this about the brutal and bloody business of kill or be killed.  These people cannot be negotiated with, nor are they sub-human.  ISIS and their ilk are smart, strong and committed.  They just cannot coexist with a modern world, nor do they intend to.  They will bend us to their will or die trying, because their god commands it so, and has promised that they win either way.  We can have bloodshed for generations, killing millions.  Or we can inflict intense brutality on them now, killing 100s of thousands of them and their supporters.  Those are the choices: A new Hundred Years War, or Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    One of the many benefits of the Iraq War was that it was a gigantic honey-trap for every me-too, would-be jihadi.  We sucked many of them into a country far away from us and killed them.  Had we stayed in Iraq, a la South Korea or Germany, the world would be a very different (less bloody) place now.  But the wise O saw fit to piss on the graves and sacrifices of our fighting men, in order to lie his way to re-election.  Elections have consequences, and the Americans who voted for Obama have this Brussels blood on their hands every bit as much as does Obama.

    • #92
  3. Ball Diamond Ball Member
    Ball Diamond Ball
    @BallDiamondBall

    MWA, go ahead. Draw your flimsy parallel. Show me I’m wrong.

    • #93
  4. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    This picture really says it all about the sickness at the heart of the media/political class of the West: the Eurocrat walking obliviously through the carnage around him, ignoring his fallen, bloody compatriot on the floor.  But Hey, he’ll tweet a clever CompassionMeme later.

    3272923E00000578-3503928-image-m-58_1458634700481

    • #94
  5. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    No Caesar:I want to kill them all. This is not about niceties, this about the brutal and bloody business of kill or be killed. These people cannot be negotiated with, nor are they sub-human. ISIS and their ilk are smart, strong and committed. They just cannot coexist with a modern world, nor do they intend to. They will bend us to their will or die trying, because their god commands it so, and has promised that they win either way. We can have bloodshed for generations, killing millions. Or we can inflict intense brutality on them now, killing 100s of thousands of them and their supporters. Those are the choices: A new Hundred Years War, or Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    One of the many benefits of the Iraq War was that it was a gigantic honey-trap for every me-too, would-be jihadi. We sucked many of them into a country far away from us and killed them. Had we stayed in Iraq, a la South Korea or Germany, the world would be a very different (less bloody) place now. But the wise O saw fit to piss on the graves and sacrifices of our fighting men, in order to lie his way to re-election. The Americans who voted for Obama have this Brussels blood on their hands every bit as much as does Obama.

    [emphasis added]

    It’s as if Game of Thrones were a reality show. Winter is coming!

    • #95
  6. Roberto Inactive
    Roberto
    @Roberto

    No Caesar:This picture really says it all about the sickness at the heart of the media/political class of the West: the Eurocrat walking obliviously through the carnage around him, ignoring his fallen, bloody compatriot on the floor. But Hey, he’ll tweet a clever CompassionMeme later.

    Perhaps he was late for the Adele concert.

    Watch Adele Pay Tribute to Brussels With ‘Make You Feel My Love’ at London Concert

    The superstar singer asked her audience to illuminate the venue with lighters and cell phones as she sang “Make You Feel My Love,” asking everyone to join her in song.

    “This is ‘Make You Feel My Love’ and this is for Brussels tonight, I want you to all sing it with me alright so they hear us,” she said before starting into the ballad.

    To the audience’s applause afterwards, she said, “I don’t think I’ve ever actually been so moved before in my life at one of my shows, that was just so beautiful. Thank you very much for doing that … I think they heard us.”

    • #96
  7. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    Roberto:

    No Caesar:This picture really says it all about the sickness at the heart of the media/political class of the West: the Eurocrat walking obliviously through the carnage around him, ignoring his fallen, bloody compatriot on the floor. But Hey, he’ll tweet a clever CompassionMeme later.

    Perhaps he was late for the Adele concert.

    Watch Adele Pay Tribute to Brussels With ‘Make You Feel My Love’ at London Concert

    The superstar singer asked her audience to illuminate the venue with lighters and cell phones as she sang “Make You Feel My Love,” asking everyone to join her in song.

    “This is ‘Make You Feel My Love’ and this is for Brussels tonight, I want you to all sing it with me alright so they hear us,” she said before starting into the ballad.

    To the audience’s applause afterwards, she said, “I don’t think I’ve ever actually been so moved before in my life at one of my shows, that was just so beautiful. Thank you very much for doing that … I think they heard us.”

    Well, I like Adele’s music, but I would never mistake her for a Warrior Queen.  Boudica she ain’t.

    • #97
  8. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    Larry3435:Why is anyone allowed to travel between Syria and the west? Is there some legitimate reason for this? Are there a whole lot of Syrian businessmen travelling to Belgium to negotiate a waffle franchise? Are there Syrian tourists, taking a little R and R from the civil war, who want to visit the Hotel de Ville? And why are Belgian kids allow to go to Syria at all? Any study abroad program in Syria is studying terrorism. Everyone knows this.

    If we can establish safe zones for Syrian refugees in or around Syria, that would be great. Very humanitarian. But anyone trying to travel to or from Syria should be presumed a terrorist and treated accordingly.

    There’s value in letting them go.  They’ve self-identified as a jihadi and should be killed, over there.  Let’s get one good thing out of Obama’s Syrian mess: a new honey-trap for the newest herd of would-be jihadis.  Not trials, not prison.  Death on the battlefield from an enemy they can’t even see.  Yes, it’s fine to set up refugee camps, but over there.

    • #98
  9. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    Interesting:   Brigitte Gabriel’s quick lesson in Islamic History and why it matters today:

    • #99
  10. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    Yep, they’re singing Imagine in Belgium:

    • #100
  11. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    Ball Diamond Ball:MWA, go ahead. Draw your flimsy parallel. Show me I’m wrong.

    I thought my parallel was obvious, and not flimsy. But what do I know, compared to you?

    My point is that collateral damage is often unavoidable, and though regrettable, can not be allowed to get in the way of the mission.

    On the other hand, targeted killing of civilians for no other reason than a family relation to combatants is murder. It is what ISIS recommends for the families of American servicemen. We shouldn’t do it. I won’t support anyone who thinks it’s a good idea.

    • #101
  12. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    No Caesar:This picture really says it all about the sickness at the heart of the media/political class of the West: the Eurocrat walking obliviously through the carnage around him, ignoring his fallen, bloody compatriot on the floor. But Hey, he’ll tweet a clever CompassionMeme later.

    3272923E00000578-3503928-image-m-58_1458634700481

    This is the third time I’ve seen this picture.

    Why such indifference? It is so disturbing.

    [Of course, these days, we will find out later that the reason this happened is that the poor man walking by has a knife-like piece of glass in him and he is in shock. :) :) ]

    • #102
  13. Nick Stuart Inactive
    Nick Stuart
    @NickStuart

    Tuck: Red Fish, Blue Fish: The US military is too scary to the rest of the world.

    Good.

    • #103
  14. Acook Coolidge
    Acook
    @Acook

    I would like to call attention to Michelle Malkin’s column today, “Post-Jihad Gesture Theater: Je Suis Sick of It.”  Along the lines of some of what Lileks has to say, and my sentiments exactly.

    • #104
  15. Johnny Dubya Inactive
    Johnny Dubya
    @JohnnyDubya

    I would have expected Reddy Kilowatt to advocate the use of this thing.

    • #105
  16. Johnny Dubya Inactive
    Johnny Dubya
    @JohnnyDubya

    MarciN:

    No Caesar:This picture really says it all about the sickness at the heart of the media/political class of the West: the Eurocrat walking obliviously through the carnage around him, ignoring his fallen, bloody compatriot on the floor. But Hey, he’ll tweet a clever CompassionMeme later.

    3272923E00000578-3503928-image-m-58_1458634700481

    This is the third time I’ve seen this picture.

    Why such indifference? It is so disturbing.

    From Mark Steyn’s America Alone:

    In June 2006, a 54-year old Flemish train conductor called Guido Demoor got on the Number 23 bus in Antwerp to go to work. Six – what’s that word again? – “youths” boarded the bus and commenced intimidating the other riders…. Mr Demoor asked the lads to cut it out and so they turned on him, thumping and kicking him. Of those 40 other passengers, none intervened to help the man under attack. Instead, at the next stop, 30 of the 40 scrammed, leaving Mr Demoor to be beaten to death. Three “youths” were arrested, and proved to be – quelle surprise! – of Moroccan origin…. The ringleader escaped and, despite police assurances of complete confidentiality, of those 40 passengers only four came forward to speak to investigators.

    • #106
  17. Johnny Dubya Inactive
    Johnny Dubya
    @JohnnyDubya

    Acook:I would like to call attention to Michelle Malkin’s column today, “Post-Jihad Gesture Theater: Je Suis Sick of It.” Along the lines of some of what Lileks has to say, and my sentiments exactly.

    Iowahawk has been writing typically trenchant tweets:

    New #DavePoll: in the wake of Paris and Brussels attacks, what’s the best way to respond to ISIS? 1. Candlelight vigils. 2. Chalk drawings. 3. Poignant cartoons. 4. Stop paying them welfare.

    Lighting defiant candles and scrawling defiant pink hearts and defiant peace signs on their defiant knees, defiantly.

    If only Twitter were around 75 years ago, we could’ve prevented WWII with poignant cartoons of crying pineapples. #JeSuisPearlHarbor

    The price of liberty is eternal vigils.

    It’s time for the Symbolic Illumination phase of the Useless Gesture Pageant.

    Let’s face it, every jihad mass murder now prompts an open audition for a job at Hallmark greeting cards.

    #IStandWithWhateverCityGetsBlownUpNext

    How many calendar dates are we supposed to Never Forget? I’m losing track.

    Taste our hot tears of abstract cartoon sadness, genocidal lunatics.

    • #107
  18. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Man With the Axe: Lileks wants to drop one on the stronghold. Trump wants to drop one on the stronghold and one on the camp.

    Well, it’s not that I want to. This is all wretched stuff.

    Thanks to everyone for chewing over the post. The impetus wasn’t the pretty lights or the mealy-mouthed EU MP, but the reminder that the price ISIS pays for these actions seems to be about zero, and that seems remarkable.

    • #108
  19. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    It seems to me we’re neglecting the fact that ISIS considers itself a “state.” Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. It looks to me like they have a capital city in Raqqa and some guy named Mohammed something or other as their head of state. You can draw borders around the territory they’ve captured, right?

    So, given San Bernardino, Brussels, Paris, etc, etc, aren’t we at war with ISIS? Doesn’t that legitimate us treating this as a war against ISIS under our own rules of engagement?

    Terrorists have apparently read more Alinsky than western leaders. They never make the mistake of using our rules to bind their hands. They let us tie ourselves up.

    Bomb ’em.

    • #109
  20. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: The place on which the MOAB should be dropped, for maximum efficacy, is thus probably somewhere in Belgium. And we’re not going to do that, because we’re not monsters. However, if Belgium remains unable to govern itself to the point that it doesn’t pose a threat to its neighbors, one of its neighbors will, sooner or later, do something about it. It will probably take the external form of a very long treaty that no one understands.

    It would be amusing to hear Brussels start to bleat about the importance of national sovereignty.

    As for dropping a big bomb on Brussels to jellify the troublemakers, of course, no. But it’s not as if other options don’t exist – they’re just ugly, illiberal, and bring back memories of that mustached shouter from the previous round of unpleasantness. They could, with help, round up, interrogate, imprison, intern, and / or expel everyone remotely connected with the problem. Plus, tighter borders. They won’t, though. Why? I’m sure they’d cite logistics, but if the number of people involved was a tenth, they’d still balk. It would violate their values.

    I get that. So the occasional mass bombing is the price you pay for your values. The frequency of the bombing can be adjusted by the enemy however they like;  they know the host state regards the preservation of a value system over the lives of a certain number of people, and that the value system is specifically designed to protect the group that’s doing the killing.

    A peculiar situation.

    • #110
  21. Flapjack Coolidge
    Flapjack
    @Flapjack

    Doctor Robert:

    Flapjack:

    The point of hitting the enemy really, really hard is to lessen the amount of death and destruction long-term. ….

    But I could be wrong.

    You are. The point of hitting the enemy really, really hard is to kill him, to degrade his capability to wage war, to frighten his civilians, to cow his politicians. To show that we will not be defeated. To cause his surrender if he survives.

    The death and destruction to be avoided is among our population. Death and destruction imposed upon those who are pledged to OUR death and destruction should continue relentlessly until surrender.

    Given the pusillanimous nature of our leadership and the fact that our CinC and much of his party are on the side of the enemy, my sort of response is not likely to happen. But my Lord, does it ever need to. This war could be over in a month, if only we wanted to win it.

    Dr. Robert – You misunderstand my point.  You and I are of one mind on this topic, I think.

    • #111
  22. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Mr. Lileks,

    Surely you jest. Isn’t it obvious where the MOAB should have been targeted.

    Obama in Cuba

    Now that’s a target of opportunity.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #112
  23. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Red Fish, Blue Fish: There is no moral difference between dropping a big bomb that necessarily will kill innocents and killing innocents directly and intentionally.

    So, much better to snatch the ones coming back from their vacation with ISIS and drop them out of an airplane over the ocean. How do you say “los desaparecidos” in Flemish again?

    • #113
  24. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    Nick Stuart:

    Tuck: Red Fish, Blue Fish: The US military is too scary to the rest of the world.

    Good.

    Only to the bad actors, and not so much to them anymore.

    • #114
  25. Johnny Dubya Inactive
    Johnny Dubya
    @JohnnyDubya

    Red Fish, Blue Fish:

    Tom Meyer, Ed.: It strikes me that there’s a significant moral difference between targeting between targeting specific innocents and not being careful about collateral damage.

    There is no moral difference between dropping a big bomb that necessarily will kill innocents and killing innocents directly and intentionally. Both are intentional acts, and in both cases the actor is aware his actions will cause the deaths of innocent civilians. The moral difference exists when killing the civilians is the better option to a worse outcome (e.g. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were preferable to an invasion of the Japanese main islands, bombing Dresden is preferable to house-to-house fighting). Whether they are directly targeted or you drop a big bomb, its not materially relevant from a moral perspective.

    OK, so here’s the “worse outcome”: Continued unrelenting terrorist attacks – by illegal enemy combatants emboldened by our lack of will to fight defensively in a manner commensurate with the mercilessness of the offensive strikes – eventually leading to WMD attacks on Western civilian targets.

    Moral quandary solved.  Unleash the MOABs.

    • #115
  26. Metalheaddoc Member
    Metalheaddoc
    @Metalheaddoc

    Why does it have to be by US? Why not pay Putin a yuuuuuuuge sum of money and tell him to drop his super-Russian 4x-better MOAB? Then we can offer the standard Strongly Worded Statement in protest to appease the leftists.

    • #116
  27. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Man With the Axe: It is what ISIS recommends for the families of American servicemen. We shouldn’t do it. I won’t support anyone who thinks it’s a good idea.

    Were they to carry through with this, then I would accept it as a suitable means of reprisal.

    • #117
  28. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Red Fish, Blue Fish:

    Kozak: The goal of war would be to reduce American and Allied nations civilians from terrorists, and to break the enemy’s will to wage war.

    Let’s play a logic game.

    (1) Let’s assume you had a weapon that killed every single Muslim on the planet with the touch of a button, except those who are part of the American and Allied nations. Over a billion dead with a button, terrorism then disappears.

    Do you press it?

    (2) Now let’s assume you had a weapon that killed every single Muslim TERRORIST on the planet with a touch of a button, regardless of where located. Unknown amount dead.

    Do you press that button?

    Option (1) is consistent with your war goal, while option (2) is not. Option (2) is consistent with my war goal, while option (1) is not.

    In what way is option #2 inconsistent with his war goal?

    • #118
  29. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    Instugator:

    Man With the Axe: It is what ISIS recommends for the families of American servicemen. We shouldn’t do it. I won’t support anyone who thinks it’s a good idea.

    Were they to carry through with this, then I would accept it as a suitable means of reprisal.

    Ummmmnnn… babies?
    RTL?

    • #119
  30. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Kate Braestrup:

    Instugator:

    Man With the Axe: It is what ISIS recommends for the families of American servicemen. We shouldn’t do it. I won’t support anyone who thinks it’s a good idea.

    Were they to carry through with this, then I would accept it as a suitable means of reprisal.

    Ummmmnnn… babies?
    RTL?

    Send in the shock troops from Planned Parenthood.  They’re the best!

    • #120
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