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  1. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Let me put it to you this way: Which is the speech in which Mr. W. Bush explained the reasons why it was necessary & good for the US to go to war in Iraq? Surely, we should at least take his case at its strongest, so by all means, let’s-

    • #31
  2. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Titus Techera:Let me put it to you this way: Which is the speech in which Mr. W. Bush explained the reasons why it was necessary & good for the US to go to war in Iraq? Surely, we should at least take his case at its strongest, so by all means, let’s-

    Fine by me.

    But I don’t remember that speech, and haven’t carved out the time to figure out which speech it was and watch it while taking notes.

    I’m just thinking that if I’m going to be educated by someone else and not do a bundle of my own research to figure it out, then the folks doing the educating ought to say what they’re talking about.

    Prager (who in general is awesome) is inviting the masses to cling to their ignorance.

    So Bush et al made a mistake.  Fine; I can live with that.  But what was it?

    • #32
  3. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Mr. Prager is not awesome. He is not even a polite interviewer-

    • #33
  4. Johnny Dubya Inactive
    Johnny Dubya
    @JohnnyDubya

    Titus Techera:Let me put it to you this way: Which is the speech in which Mr. W. Bush explained the reasons why it was necessary & good for the US to go to war in Iraq? Surely, we should at least take his case at its strongest, so by all means, let’s-

    See Comment #1, for a start.

    • #34
  5. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Johnny Dubya:

    Titus Techera:Let me put it to you this way: Which is the speech in which Mr. W. Bush explained the reasons why it was necessary & good for the US to go to war in Iraq? Surely, we should at least take his case at its strongest, so by all means, let’s-

    See Comment #1, for a start.

    I read it. But that’s a laundry list. Lots of those things don’t sound like reasons America should be going to war in Iraq. The thing is, what reason or what number of reasons particular to America–as opposed to Iraq–moved the president.

    • #35
  6. David Sussman Member
    David Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    Great comments here. Let’s keep in mind, decisions are never made on retrospectively ‘knowing what we know now’. There is the reality of the moment and it’s that moment a President must make a decision. When you have overwhelming intelligence and even the NY Times making the case (as discussed in the video) that Iraq is an existential threat, and we are within months of 9/11, would we all not have made the same decision?

    America’s (Obama admin) biggest mistake was not following Powell’s correct suggestion stating that if we were to break Iraq, we would need to fix it (paraphrasing).

    • #36
  7. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    drlorentz:Judith Miller is a controversial figure. Her erroneous reporting led to the loss of her job at the NYT, Pulitzer notwithstanding. She was involved in the Scooter Libby/Valerie Plame case.

    Without commenting on the merits of her story or the veracity of her critics, I simply note that that her narrative is hotly disputed. If you try to use this on a knowledgeable lefty, you will be met with a cannonade of criticism. This is a better line of argument.

    I’d submit that it may be a better line of argument because it essentially avoids the issue of WMD’s, which may be your point (?).  However, criticism from the left on the WMD issue, even the knowledgeable left, is de rigeur because they essentially refuse to meet the issues raised in this video head on.  Yes, one will be met with criticism–that’s what you get–but not criticism that undermines the narrative in the video of what Bush knew and when he knew it.

    Yes, Miller is controversial (Pulitzer not withstanding) because the hard-core left views her as complicit in Iraq.  As penance for the Pulitzer and to appease its core readership,  the Times did an after-the-fact reevaluation of its coverage (hindsight being 20-20) that threw Miller under the bus.  One would expect nothing less.

    • #37
  8. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Hoyacon:

    Yes, one will be met with criticism–that’s what you get–but not criticism that undermines the narrative in the video of what Bush knew and when he knew it.

    Why is it so important to prove what Bush knew, one way or the other?  It may be a nice thing for him to prove that he acted decently, but he isn’t running for President. His character issues are a historical fight.

    What you are left with is a Republican administrations competence – and that’s where defending Bush’s character means throwing that administration’s reputation for foreign policy competence (already deeply contested, and I understand not just by Democrats) under a bus.

    What is the benefit to you from having this conversation at this particular point in time?  Even with a video that  brands “I was wrong” with Democratic Party colours, I can’t see a realistic political objective.

    • #38
  9. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Let’s keep in mind, decisions are never made on retrospectively ‘knowing what we know now’.

    Right- there are lots of Monday morning QBs.

    • #39
  10. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    A useful URL:

    http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2014/05/operation-iraqi-freedom-faq.html

    It looks to me like this chap has done a lot of research on this topic.

    • #40
  11. Tuck Inactive
    Tuck
    @Tuck

    ISIS Detainee Tells U.S. of Militants’ Plan to Use Mustard Gas

    A couple observations here to connect the dots:

    So it’s not a stretch to imagine that this is the scenario that Colin Powell described to the UN come to fruition.

    Of course the NYT can’t connect those dots…  Neither can Clapper.

    • #41
  12. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring
    1.  Saddam didn’t buy WMD.  He bought (sometimes on the black market) precursors….those legal things that can be weaponized into WMD.  We had a good idea what he bought because friendly countries told us.
    2.  Saddam declared some of the stuff.  His country was so messed up that some of it was more likely misplaced, preventing him from turning it over.
    3. http://www.iraqwatch.org/  and  http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/iraqarticle2pg1.pdf   http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/iraqarticle2pg2.pdf
    4. First link is a good site.  Second and third show NYT was on board with the Saddam threat when a Dem was President.
    5. Bush was right.  WMD items were not obvious or carefully labeled in English so soldiers could identify them.  Soldiers being shot at are more interested in killing and pursuing the enemy that finding WMD to vindicate Bush.
    • #42
  13. spaceman_spiff Member
    spaceman_spiff
    @spacemanspiff

    Saint Augustine:

    • Nor, if the above reference to a whole lotta yellowcake uranium is correct…

    It is correct. It was shipped to Canada.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/244245/we-drove-saddams-yellowcake-baghdad-airport-carter-andress

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25546334/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/secret-us-mission-hauls-uranium-iraq/

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/

    • #43
  14. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    spaceman_spiff:

    Saint Augustine:

    • Nor, if the above reference to a whole lotta yellowcake uranium is correct…

    It is correct. It was shipped to Canada.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/244245/we-drove-saddams-yellowcake-baghdad-airport-carter-andress

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25546334/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/secret-us-mission-hauls-uranium-iraq/

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/

    They were really hungry up there, huh?

    • #44
  15. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Thanks for the links.  I think I’ll keep at least one open and read it tomorrow.  Looks very informative.  140 truckloads of Saddam’s uranium and 5,000 chemical weapons, and . . . Bush lied for oil.  Yeah, that totally makes sense.

    • #45
  16. David Sussman Member
    David Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    If it was all a lie then why didn’t the admin plant some wmd’s in the desert and ’find’ them?

    • #46
  17. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    I believe this analysis on the significance (especially the legal significance) of all the nuclear material, or the lack thereof, will be informative: http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2013/03/10-year-anniversary-start-Operation-Iraqi-Freedom-thoughts.html#nuclear.

    • #47
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