We Should Talk About Ben Carson

 

381px-Ben_Carson_by_Gage_Skidmore_2Having given Bernie Sanders and his supporters a lot of guff — and to to show that I’m more than just a partisan hack — I feel it’s necessary to point out to our side that we have the potential to once again demonstrate the truth behind the Republican Party’s unofficial motto There’s Nothing We Can’t Screw Up™.

The case in point is that of newly-minted Republican frontrunner Dr. Ben Carson. Carson is a fine and admirable man — perhaps unique in all the world for his skill with a scalpel — and, having read his book, the irrepressible nature of his optimism can’t be denied. But he’s nonetheless the flavor of the month for Republican Primary voters. Keep in mind that at this point four years ago, Herman Cain was the frontrunner and Newt Gingrich was about to spike. Anybody could develop some sort of alternate history fan-fiction about how things would have gone had either of these men remained the Republican front-runner, but both were, in the end, deeply flawed candidates for a variety of reasons. Dr. Carson is no different.

Carson’s story is uplifting and uniquely American, but those qualities do not grant you the judgment, cunning, and credibility to either seize or occupy the highest office in the land. Should he become the Republican nominee we would most likely be treated to a passel of strange stories which would surely disqualify Gentle Ben from holding high office. Here’s the latest example:

Ben Carson stood by his long-held belief about ancient pyramids in Egypt, that they were used to store grain, rather than to inter pharaohs. Asked about this Wednesday, Carson told CBS News, “It’s still my belief, yes.”

The subject came up when Buzzfeed published a 1998 commencement speech delivered by Carson at Andrews University, a college founded by Seventh-day Adventists.

“My own personal theory is that Joseph built the pyramids to store grain,” Carson said. “Now all the archeologists think that they were made for the pharaohs’ graves. But, you know, it would have to be something awfully big if you stop and think about it. And I don’t think it’d just disappear over the course of time to store that much grain.”

As an isolated incident, I think this could be forgiven — a simple misunderstanding which wouldn’t be disqualifying in and of itself — but the trouble is that once you start to yank on this thread, the sweater begins to unravel to the point where you’re likely to end up standing naked holding a thousand yards of wool in your hands.

Who knew that jail was one of the leading causes of homosexuality? I guess the rest of America will have the opportunity to learn this lesson as well… in the form of 30-second ads shown over and over and over again.

Given that we have an embarrassment of riches in terms of candidates this cycle — and a strong chance of reclaiming the White House — the only thing preventing us from doing so would be nominating a candidate whose beliefs put him in a place that is incompatible with the body politic. As such, I place Carson’s chances of winning the White House at about the same as I would that the Pyramids were ancient power stations.

Image Credit: “Ben Carson” by Gage Skidmore. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons.

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  1. Tommy De Seno Member
    Tommy De Seno
    @TommyDeSeno

    Pharaoh sends 50,000 slaves into the desert to build a pyramid. Where does he store the daily bread that sustains them? Did the local planning board authorize temporary pea pod units next to the Porta-potties?

    • #61
  2. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    Freeven:I suspect that Carson would be a good president.

    I think so too. And I think that when he spoke of the importance of having a brain and being able to figure things out, he was only trying to allay the fears of those who say he has no political experience. He just meant he has the intellect to figure out what to do and to surround himself with experienced advisors. The problem is getting him in the oval office in the first place, and I don’t see that happening once the general population are voting on it.

    • #62
  3. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    I think one of the problems the GOP has is that they are arrogant. They’ll voice platitudes down to the politically unengaged (low information voter LIV for short), but they don’t understand the LIV’s. Trump and Carson appeal to the this group. Carson appeals because he is obviously a unique individual with a great life story – he is distinguished enough that LIV’s can imagine him as president, but he also shares the cultural instincts of the conservative wing of the LIV group. Everytime he says something out of the main stream and get’s attacked for it like the Nazi confiscation of guns, etc. this group only likes him more.

    For Trump, he is a branding genius. He knows his brand and he knows the LIV market. The only major sit-down interviews he has done is on the weekday morning shows like Today. The mix of shallow regular and pop-culture news that is presented on morning shows is exactly aimed at the LIV demographic.

    We Ricochet are the exact opposite of the LIV demographic. We are the most politically engaged. Look at the polling on Ricochet. At one point Scott Walker was polling at 60% here, where is he now?

    • #63
  4. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    If Ben Carson is the nominee, I will gladly vote for him.

    • #64
  5. Bkelley14 Inactive
    Bkelley14
    @Bkelley14

    Uh oh. Politico.

    • #65
  6. Majestyk Member
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    This just in: Ben Carson also fabricated in his book “Gifted Hands” that he applied for and received a full-ride scholarship to West Point.

    I wish I could say that I was prescient, but this was a ticking time bomb that only took somebody looking into it.  He lied and it was a whopper.

    • #66
  7. zepplinmike Inactive
    zepplinmike
    @zepplinmike

    Majestyk:This just in: Ben Carson also fabricated in his book “Gifted Hands” that he applied for and received a full-ride scholarship to West Point.

    I wish I could say that I was prescient, but this was a ticking time bomb that only took somebody looking into it. He lied and it was a whopper.

    Haha, you beat me posting this by exactly one second.

    Anyway, can we all agree to move on from this guy now? Please?

    • #67
  8. Majestyk Member
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    Tommy De Seno:Pharaoh sends 50,000 slaves into the desert to build a pyramid.Where does he store the daily bread that sustains them?Did the local planning board authorize temporary pea pod units next to the Porta-potties?

    Ben Carson applied to be part of Pharaoh’s army and got a full ride scholarship… oh, wait. :/

    • #68
  9. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    Louis Farrakhan used to tell stories about black Egyptians flying pleasure craft around the Biblical skies…on the Right, we laughed our C of C compliant behinds off at the gullible patheticness of the Left.

    Damn shame about Carson. Say, isn’t it past time for one of his defenders here to bring up Chappaquiddick? For the record, Ben Carson never drowned anyone in an Oldsmobile. There, I said it for you.

    • #69
  10. Tommy De Seno Member
    Tommy De Seno
    @TommyDeSeno

    There is a great deal of hair splitting going on in that Politico piece about West Point. The headline doesn’t match the report.

    • #70
  11. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    Haters gonna hate. As usual.

    • #71
  12. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    Majestyk:This just in: Ben Carson also fabricated in his book “Gifted Hands” that he applied for and received a full-ride scholarship to West Point.

    I wish I could say that I was prescient, but this was a ticking time bomb that only took somebody looking into it. He lied and it was a whopper.

    Ben Carson is done, and Donald Trump will be the beneficiary of that.

    • #72
  13. Theodoric of Freiberg Inactive
    Theodoric of Freiberg
    @TheodoricofFreiberg

    Majestyk:

    I think that Romney’s most obvious flaw was “not being Obama.”

    I disagree. His gaffs were awful. Remember “I don’t care about the bottom 47%” and “I like to fire people”? In combination with is wealth, those were killers.

    Ronald Reagan Reincarnate couldn’t have beaten Obama in 08 or 12.

    This is true for 08. I completely disagree in 12.

    • #73
  14. Kwhopper Inactive
    Kwhopper
    @Kwhopper

    So were you really after a discussion, or was your post just an editorial to bait other members? I can get an editorial anywhere and it usually comes without demeaning other posters. Sometimes I wish the CoC was enforced more on this front.

    I’ve kind of cooled to the hit piece on candidates with subjects completely unrelated to the office. Who cares? Nobody cares and suggesting they do, particularly this far out, is silly. All I can and should care about is whether the candidate will slow/regress the growth of government and get out of the way of free enterprise. If Mr. Carson will do so and gets the nomination, I’m sold.

    How much worse can it get anyway since we have President Obama? <cough> Keystone pipeline <cough> as only the most recent example.

    • #74
  15. The Question Inactive
    The Question
    @TheQuestion

    I teach biology and evolution, so it bugs me that Dr. Carson calls evolution a satanic plot.  That said, I’d be more bothered if he believed, for example, that you can raise the minimum wage to $15/hour without shutting down businesses and jobs.  That’s really crazy.

    If it really matters much what a president thinks about evolution, it means the government is way too involved in science education.

    • #75
  16. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    The Question: If it really matters much what a president thinks about evolution, it means the government is way too involved in science education.

    To me it raises red flags about judgement, and critical thinking, both key ingredients for a good President.

    • #76
  17. The Forgotten Man Inactive
    The Forgotten Man
    @TheForgottenMan

    Majestyk:

    Robert McReynolds:Well explain the ignorance. I honestly don’t know if straight people going into prison come out homosexual, but I do happen to agree that homosexuality is a choice and not a product of genetics. If that is what you are talking about then I guess you are just going to have excuse me.

    You’re excused.

    To be fair, you are the guy who keeps on talking about secession or high-tailing it out of the country with your family – to where, I haven’t yet heard – so I’m starting to get the gist.

    Nice Ad Hominem

    • #77
  18. iDad Inactive
    iDad
    @iDad

    Ho hum – another example of one of our “pragmatists” assisting the left in sabotaging candidates like Carson, doing progressives’ dirty work under the guise of “gee, I’m worried this makes this guy unelectable.”

    Can’t wait for the lectures on how Tea Party and other conservative types are duty bound to support the “moderate” nominee because Winning Is The Most Important Thing In The Most Important Election In US History.

    • #78
  19. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    The Forgotten Man:

    Majestyk:

    Robert McReynolds:Well explain the ignorance. I honestly don’t know if straight people going into prison come out homosexual, but I do happen to agree that homosexuality is a choice and not a product of genetics. If that is what you are talking about then I guess you are just going to have excuse me.

    You’re excused.

    To be fair, you are the guy who keeps on talking about secession or high-tailing it out of the country with your family – to where, I haven’t yet heard – so I’m starting to get the gist.

    Nice Ad Hominem

    To be fair, Robert keeps raising this as his solution to what he see’s as an insurmountable problem. Its fair to address this with him. He opened the door to this line of questioning so to speak.

    • #79
  20. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Tommy De Seno:There is a great deal of hair splitting going on in that Pilitico piece about West Point. The headline doesn’t match the report.

    The article states that the Carson campaign admits that Carson’s story of being offered and accepting a scholarship to West Point was fabricated. Now, unless the Carson campaign issues a statement that they did not admit the claim was fabricated to Politico, this is a real problem. Frankly, I don’t see the “hairsplitting” that you do. Yes, he was at a banquet with General Westmoreland, as were dozens of other people. Whether the two had a conversation about Carson’s future isn’t the point. There’s no corroborating evidence to suggest they did…or didn’t. But when the campaign admits that the offer and acceptance to West Point was a fabrication…well, that’s pretty damning.

    Carson is a nice guy…but I’ve never been convinced he was presidential caliber. Cabinet secretary perhaps…HHS. But not president. The Democrats will eat him alive…and they’re nibbling on him now.

    • #80
  21. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    This is apparently a thing. That is real…

    • #81
  22. Tommy De Seno Member
    Tommy De Seno
    @TommyDeSeno

    Brian Watt:

    Tommy De Seno:There is a great deal of hair splitting going on in that Pilitico piece about West Point. The headline doesn’t match the report.

    The article states that the Carson campaign admits that Carson’s story of being offered and accepting a scholarship to West Point was fabricated. Now, unless the Carson campaign issues a statement that they did not admit the claim was fabricated to Politico, this is a real problem. Frankly, I don’t see the “hairsplitting” that you do. Yes, he was at a banquet with General Westmoreland, as were dozens of other people. Whether the two had a conversation about Carson’s future isn’t the point. There’s no corroborating evidence to suggest they did…or didn’t. But when the campaign admits that the offer and acceptance to West Point was a fabrication…well, that’s pretty damning.

    Carson is a nice guy…but I’ve never been convinced he was presidential caliber. Cabinet secretary perhaps…HHS. But not president. The Democrats will eat him alive…and they’re nibbling on him now.

    Show me the campaign admitting to a fabrication.  I keep reading that and no one is linking it.

    • #82
  23. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Jamie Lockett:

    The Question: If it really matters much what a president thinks about evolution, it means the government is way too involved in science education.

    To me it raises red flags about judgement, and critical thinking, both key ingredients for a good President.

    According to the polling this puts you out of place with the majority of the people. 42% believe God created man as he is 10,000 years ago. 31% believe that humans evolved over a long period with God guiding the evolution. Just 19% believe in evolution with out God.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

    There is a lot of room for someone to speak out against evolution and not be deemed crazy by most of the electorate.

    • #83
  24. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Jager:

    Jamie Lockett:

    The Question: If it really matters much what a president thinks about evolution, it means the government is way too involved in science education.

    To me it raises red flags about judgement, and critical thinking, both key ingredients for a good President.

    According to the polling this puts you out of place with the majority of the people. 42% believe God created man as he is 10,000 years ago. 31% believe that humans evolved over a long period with God guiding the evolution. Just 19% believe in evolution with out God.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

    There is a lot of room for someone to speak out against evolution and not be deemed crazy by most of the electorate.

    So what? A lot of people believe a lot of crazy stuff, that doesn’t make it true. If a majority of people believed that Communism works should we go ahead and elect Bernie Sanders?

    • #84
  25. The Forgotten Man Inactive
    The Forgotten Man
    @TheForgottenMan

    Tommy De Seno:There is a great deal of hair splitting going on in that Pilitico piece about West Point. The headline doesn’t match the report.

    I agree. I haven’t read the book but the politico does not quote the book as saying  Dr. Carson applied to West Point or was admitted which is what they refuted in their article.  In the context of the book “being offered a scholarship” may just mean if you apply to West Point I could help you get a scholarship.

    Dr. Carson wasn’t running for office then and never expected to run for office. He was a surgeon trying to inspire youth with his story. Probably wasn’t calculating every sentence in terms of a Presidential run.  Also Carson’s campaign does not say anything about anything being a fabrication.  That is Politico’s spin.  I think I’ll wait ’till I hear from the candidate.  Oh. and for Gary, nobody drowned.

    • #85
  26. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    She:

    My favorite part of the essay you link to above is this:

    Several people ask what they should tell their friends when people say “I like Carson but he has no political experience”. You are absolutely right–I have no political experience. The current Members of Congress have a combined 8,700 years of political experience. Are we sure political experience is what we need.

    Hard to fault that logic. He continues:

    Every signer of the Declaration of Independence had no federal elected office experience. What they had was a deep belief that freedom is a gift from God. They had a determination to rise up against a tyrannical King. They were willing to risk all they had, even their lives, to be free. Today we find ourselves with an entire class of politicians. No one in Philadelphia, during that summer our nation was born, dreamed that service was a career with a pension. America was the land of the Citizen Statesmen. They were merchants, lawyers, farmers — and yes, even doctors. They were willing to stand for freedom. Today, the political class stands in the way, not for the people. They demand pensions and perks. This is not what our Founders envisioned for America.

    I don’t think it’s possible to enunciate the problem better, more simply, or more clearly, than that.

    Thank you for picking up more of the letter. The whole letter was great.

    I felt like I knew him better after I read it. :)

    • #86
  27. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Jamie Lockett:

    Jager:

    Jamie Lockett:

    The Question: If it really matters much what a president thinks about evolution, it means the government is way too involved in science education.

    To me it raises red flags about judgement, and critical thinking, both key ingredients for a good President.

    According to the polling this puts you out of place with the majority of the people. 42% believe God created man as he is 10,000 years ago. 31% believe that humans evolved over a long period with God guiding the evolution. Just 19% believe in evolution with out God.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

    There is a lot of room for someone to speak out against evolution and not be deemed crazy by most of the electorate.

    So what? A lot of people believe a lot of crazy stuff, that doesn’t make it true. If a majority of people believed that Communism works should we go ahead and elect Bernie Sanders?

    Should we elect Sanders? No. Would he be electable? Yes. My point is that Carson’s views on evolution do not make him unelectable in the eyes of the majority of the electorate.

    • #87
  28. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Tommy De Seno:

    Brian Watt:

    Tommy De Seno:There is a great deal of hair splitting going on in that Pilitico piece about West Point. The headline doesn’t match the report.

    The article states that the Carson campaign admits that Carson’s story of being offered and accepting a scholarship to West Point was fabricated. Now, unless the Carson campaign issues a statement that they did not admit the claim was fabricated to Politico, this is a real problem. Frankly, I don’t see the “hairsplitting” that you do. Yes, he was at a banquet with General Westmoreland, as were dozens of other people. Whether the two had a conversation about Carson’s future isn’t the point. There’s no corroborating evidence to suggest they did…or didn’t. But when the campaign admits that the offer and acceptance to West Point was a fabrication…well, that’s pretty damning.

    Carson is a nice guy…but I’ve never been convinced he was presidential caliber. Cabinet secretary perhaps…HHS. But not president. The Democrats will eat him alive…and they’re nibbling on him now.

    Show me the campaign admitting to a fabrication. I keep reading that and no one is linking it.

    From the Politico article in question (emphasis mine):

    Ben Carson’s campaign on Friday admitted, in a response to an inquiry from POLITICO, that a central point in his inspirational personal story was fabricated: his application and acceptance into the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.

    The academy has occupied a central place in Carson’s tale for years. According to a story told in Carson’s book, “Gifted Hands,” the then-17 year old was introduced in 1969 to Gen. William Westmoreland, who had just ended his command of U.S. forces in Vietnam, and the two dined together. That meeting, according to Carson’s telling, was followed by a “full scholarship” to the military academy.

    So, is it your suggestion that Politico has decided to print something they know to be false and open themselves up to a potential libel suit?

    • #88
  29. BThompson Inactive
    BThompson
    @BThompson

    Tommy De Seno:

    Brian Watt:

    The article states that the Carson campaign admits that Carson’s story of being offered and accepting a scholarship to West Point was fabricated. Now, unless the Carson campaign issues a statement that they did not admit the claim was fabricated to Politico, this is a real problem. Frankly, I don’t see the “hairsplitting” that you do. Yes, he was at a banquet with General Westmoreland, as were dozens of other people. Whether the two had a conversation about Carson’s future isn’t the point. There’s no corroborating evidence to suggest they did…or didn’t. But when the campaign admits that the offer and acceptance to West Point was a fabrication…well, that’s pretty damning.

    Carson is a nice guy…but I’ve never been convinced he was presidential caliber. Cabinet secretary perhaps…HHS. But not president. The Democrats will eat him alive…and they’re nibbling on him now.

    Show me the campaign admitting to a fabrication. I keep reading that and no one is linking it.

    Carson lied. You cannot get offered a scholarship to a service academy without formally seeking either a congressional, vice presidential, or presidential appointment. No general, no matter who he is, can offer a scholarship to West Point. And no one would ever receive an offer of a scholarship without formally asking for an appointment. There is no point in defending Carson on this. He lied, period.

    • #89
  30. Tommy De Seno Member
    Tommy De Seno
    @TommyDeSeno

    Brian Watt:

    Tommy De Seno:

    Brian Watt:

    Tommy De Seno:There is a great deal of hair splitting going on in that Pilitico piece about West Point. The headline doesn’t match the report.

    The article states that the Carson campaign admits that Carson’s story of being offered and accepting a scholarship to West Point was fabricated. Now, unless the Carson campaign issues a statement that they did not admit the claim was fabricated to Politico, this is a real problem. Frankly, I don’t see the “hairsplitting” that you do. Yes, he was at a banquet with General Westmoreland, as were dozens of other people. Whether the two had a conversation about Carson’s future isn’t the point. There’s no corroborating evidence to suggest they did…or didn’t. But when the campaign admits that the offer and acceptance to West Point was a fabrication…well, that’s pretty damning.

    Carson is a nice guy…but I’ve never been convinced he was presidential caliber. Cabinet secretary perhaps…HHS. But not president. The Democrats will eat him alive…and they’re nibbling on him now.

    Show me the campaign admitting to a fabrication. I keep reading that and no one is linking it.

    From the Politico article in question (emphasis mine):

    Ben Carson’s campaign on Friday admitted, in a response to an inquiry from POLITICO, that a central point in his inspirational personal story was fabricated: his application and acceptance into the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.

    The academy has occupied a central place in Carson’s tale for years. According to a story told in Carson’s book, “Gifted Hands,” the then-17 year old was introduced in 1969 to Gen. William Westmoreland, who had just ended his command of U.S. forces in Vietnam, and the two dined together. That meeting, according to Carson’s telling, was followed by a “full scholarship” to the military academy.

    So, is it your suggestion that Politico has decided to print something they know to be false and open themselves up to a potential libel suit?

    Those words you put in my mouth taste awful.

    Now link me to the campaign, not politico, admitting to a fabrication.

    • #90
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