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Sunday Morning Decline and Fall
It’s a Ricochet tradition — or mine, anyway – to reserve Sundays for the discussion of religion, the arts, letters, history, philosophy, and science. We need a break once a week; otherwise, we should go quite mad. Thus I offer as a topic for today’s discussion the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. I have no idea why I was prompted to think of the subject. It came to me unbidden. I must take up the question with my unconscious mind.
In 1984, Alexander Demandt enumerated 210 theses variously advanced to account for the collapse in Der Falls Rom:
Abolition of gods, abolition of rights, absence of character, absolutism, agrarian question, agrarian slavery, anarchy, anti-Germanism, apathy, aristocracy, asceticism, attacks by Germans, attacks by Huns, attacks by nomads on horseback.
Backwardness in science, bankruptcy, barbarization, bastardization, blockage of land by large landholders, blood poisoning, bolshevization, bread and circuses, bureaucracy, Byzantinism.
Capitalism, change of capitals, caste system, celibacy, centralization, childlessness, Christianity, citizenship (granting of), civil war, climatic deterioration, communism, complacency, concatenation of misfortunes, conservatism, corruption, cosmopolitanism, crisis of legitimacy, culinary excess, cultural neurosis.
Decentralization, decline of Nordic character, decline of the cities, decline of the Italic population, deforestation, degeneration, degeneration of intellect, demoralization, depletion of mineral resources, despotism, destruction of environment, destruction of peasantry, destruction of political process, destruction of Roman influence, devastation, differences in wealth, disarmament, disillusion with state, division of empire, division of labour.
Earthquakes, egoism, egoism of the state, emancipation of slaves, enervation, epidemics, equal rights (granting of), eradication of the best, escapism, ethnic dissolution, excessive aging of population, excessive civilization, excessive culture, excessive foreign infiltration, excessive freedom, excessive urbanization, expansion, exploitation.
Fear of life, female emancipation, feudalization, fiscalism, gladiatorial system, gluttony, gout, hedonism, Hellenization, heresy, homosexuality, hothouse culture, hubris, hyperthermia.
Immoderate greatness, imperialism, impotence, impoverishment, imprudent policy toward buffer states, inadequate educational system, indifference, individualism, indoctrination, inertia, inflation, intellectualism, integration (weakness of), irrationality, Jewish influence.
Lack of leadership, lack of male dignity, lack of military recruits, lack of orderly imperial succession, lack of qualified workers, lack of rainfall, lack of religiousness, lack of seriousness, large landed properties, lead-poisoning, lethargy, levelling (cultural), levelling (social), loss of army discipline, loss of authority, loss of energy, loss of instincts, loss of population, luxury.
Malaria, marriages of convenience, mercenary system, mercury damage, militarism, monetary economy, monetary greed, money (shortage of), moral decline, moral idealism, moral materialism, mystery religions, nationalism of Rome’s subjects, negative selection.
Orientalization, outflow of gold, over-refinement, pacifism, paralysis of will, paralysation, parasitism, particularism, pauperism, plagues, pleasure-seeking, plutocracy, polytheism, population pressure, precociousness, professional army, proletarization, prosperity, prostitution, psychoses, public baths.
Racial degeneration, racial discrimination, racial suicide, rationalism, refusal of military service, religious struggles and schisms, rentier mentality, resignation, restriction to profession, restriction to the land, rhetoric, rise of uneducated masses, romantic attitudes to peace, ruin of middle class, rule of the world.
Semi-education, sensuality, servility, sexuality, shamelessness, shifting of trade routes, slavery, Slavic attacks, socialism (of the state), social tensions, soil erosion, soil exhaustion, spiritual barbarism, stagnation, stoicism, stress, structural weakness, superstition.
Taxation, pressure of terrorism, tiredness of life, totalitarianism, treason, tristesse, two-front war, underdevelopment, useless diet, usurpation of all powers by the state, vaingloriousness, villa economy, vulgarization.
I couldn’t say why I find myself so fascinated by that list today. I must take it up with my unconscious mind. For those of you inclined to take up that question with your own unconscious minds, I commend to your attention this passage from Civilization and Its Discontents, in which Sigmund Freud compares the mind to a city with an ancient history:
Now let us make the fantastic supposition that Rome were not a human dwelling-place, but a mental entity with just as long and varied a past history: that is, in which nothing once constructed had perished, and all the earlier stages of development had survived alongside the latest. This would mean that . . . where the Palazzo Caffarelli stands there would also be, without this being removed, the Temple of Jupiter Capitolinus. … Where the Coliseum stands now, we could at the same time admire Nero’s Golden House. … And the observer would need merely to shift the focus of his eyes, perhaps, or change his position, in order to call up a view of either the one or the other.
Adam Kirsch begins with that allusion in an interesting review of new works about the Roman Empire and the long tradition of seeing America both in and as Rome:
The comparison is necessarily a loose one, but it preserves the customary understanding of the Roman Empire as a peak of human civilization, a fragile accomplishment that could all too easily be undermined by its own hubris. But this season brings a number of new works on Roman history that focus not on the glories of Roman culture but on its notorious brutalities. The perspective is, in its own way, just as unsettling as any apocalyptic fantasy of decline and fall. What if the true meaning of Rome is not justice but injustice, not civilization but institutionalized barbarism? What if, when you look back as Freud did at the Eternal City — a sobriquet that Rome had already earned two thousand years ago — you find at the bottom of all its archeological strata not a forum or a palace but a corpse?
What if, indeed.
Now, it’s surely true that there’s a Rorschach-test aspect to the question, “Why do you believe the Roman Empire collapsed?” It’s possible to construct many plausible theories, and if any event seems (retrospectively) over-determined, it’s the fall of Rome. Wikipedia’s account of the historiography of the period looks to me a sound and comprehensive review for those of you who need a refresher (I did); and we have among us a number of classicists who will surely have more thoughts to add. Suffice to say, there’s a vast reading list to master. A great deal of powerful human intellect has been applied to this question: There’s a compellingly-argued thesis to please all tastes.
It’s true that the theories about the fall of Rome that seem most persuasive to historians tend to be the ones that confirm their contemporary political beliefs. For example, Bruce Bartlett of the Cato Institute does a fine job of attributing Rome’s demise to its failure to adopt the Cato Institute’s policy recommendations. (That’s not sarcasm, by the way: It’s an outstanding piece, and really well worth reading.) Historians are human.
That said, none of us here, I assume, ascribe to the postmodern thesis that our interpretation of history is of necessity an entirely subjective matter. Some historical explanations are better and more plausible than others. Objectively.
So, Ricochet, what do you hold to be the top five — objective — causes of the collapse of the Roman Empire? Why do you think them more important than the others?
And don’t you find it relaxing to take a day away from contemplating current affairs? I don’t know why thinking about this subject hasn’t relaxed me yet, but I’m sure it will as I meditate upon it more deeply.
Published in General
In the late 70’s I was in high school and had a report due that I “forgot” to produce. In a panic, I “borrowed” my sister’s book report based on a popular book at the time called “The Late Great Planet Earth” by Hal Lindsey. I (shamefully) rewrote my sister’s report, handed it in and …..got an A. I still have the paperback on my book shelf, but I remember Hal talking about the rise and fall of 7 great empires from a Biblical point of view. He described from the Book of Revelation 17:10 1. Assyria 2. Egypt 3. Babylon 4. Medo-Persia 5. Greece 6. Rome (when John wrote the Book of Revelation) and the empire yet to come, the revived Roman Empire, which was described by Hal Lindsey as the European Union. This had not taken place then, nor was there one common currency.
With Claire’s pulse on world events, I think it is intuitive that this topic just came to her. National sovereignty is becoming obsolete, Greece about to default, lawlessness increasing, lack of border security, huge national debts, the persecution of Jews and Israel (again) and Christians worldwide, the rise of Islam, our inability to produce our own resources (everything outsourced), moral decline, drought (lack of water for crops and drinking), inability to protect national interests (hacking, terrorism etc.) – I think these were all present in some way in former empires failing. We are witnessing same.
Fond of theories of history when they make you look at the evidence in a new way. Bias doesn’t matter–unless it leads to Theories of History. Which leads to dancing. I think that’s how the Presbyterian joke goes. Faves, per Rome:
1. Jacob Burckhardt. The Age of Constantine the Great. Christianity was best political choice for a State religion (universally attractive with an existing internal organization). Problem: an other-worldly religion. The best went off to the mountains and deserts to meditate rather than live in the here-and-now (now called the then-and-there). Some Gibbon in that. An attractive antidote to the racy Hollywood suggestions of pagan dissipation ill-considered by a child.
2. Henri Pirenne. Medieval Cities: Their Origins and the Revival of Trade. Not so much the “fall” of the Western Empire, but suggested the end of the ancient world in Europe was much later than the 5th century. More like the 7th, when (Islamic) pirates finally choked off the western med trade routes.
3. Ferdinand Gregorovius. History of the City of Rome in the Middle Ages. Again not so much “fall” as how long it took to hit the ground. The city was looking pretty sharp even in the reign of Gregory the Great (Pope 590-604 a.d.). Damage was natural, not barbarian. Upkeep the problem. Now this is a long book (or several long volumes) which puts the kibosh on theorizing about anything. There is no 4 and 5.
Great question.
A very good point. Had I asked what caused its fall, how would you have replied?
My understanding is that there were a large number of widely respected customs for how power should be acquired and used that gradually were set aside. One of the first culprits was, ironically, Scipio Africanus, who demonstrated that one did not have to wait in line for higher political posts like the consulship. Previous to that, even the most talented would need to pass through a variety of more minor posts before becoming eligible (the cursus honorum).
That’s not to say that Scipio misused that power in the way that his descendants (the Gracchi brothers) did, but it was one of the first breaks in precedent. Those breaks in precedent continued to escalate bit by bit until the Republic was in constant civil war between ambitious pretenders.
That is the closer example to the current American decline: everything still seems to work, but the old traditions that limited ambitions are being chipped away. In this way, Obama is achieving his stated goal of “fundamentally transforming” the country, though perhaps not in exactly the manner in which he intends.
I’m a self taught ancient Roman history buff. The most convincing answer to what caused the decline was that there was a plague that brought the Roman population down to a sub critical mass to defend itself and its values. From there a sequence of events ensued from which the population drop could not solve and led to the collapse of the western half of the empire. Remember the Eastern half survived until 1453, almost another thousand years. The eastern half survived because it had a more defendable position agaisnt the northern Germanic tribes that were looking to be part of f Rome. Germanic tribes by and large were not looking to overcome Rome, but be a part of it. However, once they established themselves inside the empire, they became their own states with their own laws and culture. The western half just fragmented.
I have not read it, but there might be some merit to it. At the heart of it though was a population drop, and it has been recently theorized (with perhaps some evidence to back it up, I can’t remember) that a plague hit the Roman world at the end of the fourth century. Quite a few groups of people had migrated from Asia and like the Indians on the American continent centuries later, the Roman world had not built up immunities to various communicable diseases that came with the migrations.
By the way, worst place to get your Roman history is from Gibbon. It was written centuries ago before real hisorical discipline. I don’t believe most current ancient Roman historians give much credence to him.
Well, come on, not the worst. Agree completely that Gibbon’s isn’t the last word, but it was the first. I would still assign it as required core curriculum reading, wouldn’t you?
OK, you’re right, not the worst. He was first, and very eloquent, and has a great reputation for his prose style. I think it’s his prose that has kept him alive. From what I have gathered, though, most contemporary historians don’t look to him much any more. But I’m only an ameteur Roman history buff, so don’t take that as Gospel.
Probably the rise of the Gracchi, although I feel a sharp consciousness that my opinion is guided more by present events than my actually Roman history. That being said, they tend to mark the beginning of the political disruptions that end with Augustus.
Once the mob realizes that it can wield unrestrained power, people will start lining up to lead it. There were worse than the Gracchi, but I think they were the beginning.
So, to turn this around all we really need is a few Justinian the Great and Belisarius analogues, few Ultimi Americarum will do the trick. Sounds downright easy!
As for what caused the West’s fall, I think Juvenal’s satires are a good place to start. He had a front row seat to the decline and fall.
Over-centralization, decline of traditional mores, legions of a parasite (political) class, the “statification” of education (Satire 7 is particularly good for this one), and unassimilated immigration, all of which are covered in hilarious detail within the satires. I recommend the satires in Latin. They are quite good. If you don’t already know Latin, no time like the present, tirones.
I don’t imagine any one particular reason is more or less important than others. They worked in concert to ruin the Western Empire.
I’d like to think that Justinian was able to pull off his reforms and conquests in large part because he believed it was possible, and had the necessary will to expend the blood and treasure to make it happen. I think he just didn’t accept the decline, and didn’t believe that the best days of Rome were behind it.
Alas. Abundant dulcibus vitiis.
Security.
The security against enemies foreign and domestic that led to confidence within.
It led to prosperity, which led to reduced vigilance and increased complacency, which allowed both internal moral collapse and externally-imposed downfall.
It happened to Israel.
It happened to Greece.
It happened to Rome.
I think an argument could be made that it happened to the Caliphate, to the British Empire . . . heck, even to Asimov’s Empire.
I’m nowhere near a Roman History buff, having read only one account of the empire’s fall. But there is one main aspect of the Heather thesis that I really like: it suggests the complex dynamics among and within civilizations.
1. According to Heather, Rome’s influence on the German barbarians helped the barbarians become more powerful, making them into a more effective fighting force that was harder to fight off.
2. Also, the fighting ability of the Huns in what is now Eastern Europe contributed to the fall by pushing other barbarian tribes into Rome. The Western empire, weakened by the decisions it made to respond to the Sassanid Persians, was unable to handle the influx of desperate refugees fleeing the Huns.
3. It was the attempt to deal with the Sassanid Persians that “reduced real income” in the provinces, leading elites to turn their attention from those provinces to imperial bureaucracies, weakening the ability of the provinces to respond to invaders.
Claire & Jordan,
Aw com’n guys it’s all Greek to me. Hey, nobody’s perfect.
Regards,
Jim
“MEN do not live long without gods; but when the gods of the New Paganism come they will not be merely insufficient, as were the gods of Greece, nor merely false; they will be evil. One might put it in a sentence, and say that the New Paganism, foolishly expecting satisfaction, will fall, before it knows where it is, into Satanism”
~Hilaire Belloc: “Essays of a Catholic.”
I think all the main reasons have been covered in these posts except one: The tension between Christianity and Paganism. This was not a peripheral issue. Christianity began life in Rome as an exotic California-cult with a small group of followers and regarded as a joke by the rest of the populace. No one in Nero’s time would have imagined Christians becoming the biggest religion ever. But by the third century (and especially after Constantine’s conversion) the Christians were in positions of power and actively persecuting Pagans. The Emperor Julian was the last old-school pagan to sit on the throne and used a heavy-handed approach to try and reverse the tide, but this only deepened the resentments in turn and by the time the Christians returned to power they embarked on lynch-mobbing, book-burning and vandalising anything Pagan. Great swathes of ancient knowledge literally went up in smoke before the barbarians could even get to it.
Christians are still sensitive to criticisms such as this so I add the rejoinder that the more savvy bishops and monks were aware of what was being lost and tried to salvage what they could of the books and other treasure before it was too late.
The obvious parallel I see here is with modern “rights” activism.
I don’t have a comprehensive answer, but I do have one cautionary thought: If you conquer the world by virtue of superior military tactics, don’t hire your conquered enemies as mercenaries and then teach them your tactics. Because, you know, what could go wrong?
This is off the subject, but I want to say that THoR’s “The History of Rome” at his Revolutions website (A link is provided at comment 17 and 36) is enthralling. I wish I could buy transcriptions of these podcasts. Really cool would be a book of the transcribed podcasts illustrated with cartoons and photographs of ancient statues, mosaics and artifacts. I especially appreciate the bibliography provided for The History of Rome at the Revolutions website. Am also grateful for the Audible Book recommendations. Husband and I will be enjoying these podcasts over the next few weeks.
THoR, the work you put into this is a great gift to people who (like me, my husband, and like many juveniles) are interested in learning about Rome but would be starting to do that from not much of a knowledge base.
Re : comment # 80
I’m just writing to say that also, of course, the book—THoR, I hope you turn these podcasts into a book—should include pictures of the famous paintings mentioned in the podcasts. These will give readers some idea of ancient Rome’s effect on the collective imagination at different times in history, while also prompting a greater awareness of artistic heritage.
I would have loved to have had these podcasts in book form, with all the illustrations I’ve suggested, for my son when he was twelve or thirteen.