Cuba: It’s the Morality, Stupid

 

I was nine when the Bay of Pigs fiasco occurred. We lived in Miami. There were a lot of Cubans in our parish. The Ortega brothers, my friends down the block, were typical. Their father refused to learn much English because (a) he would be going back soon when Castro was gone and (b) it was not macho to look weak by speaking a language that you had not mastered. English was for wives and kids. The boys took judo and were otherwise told to prepare for some undefined moment of conflict that never came.

The Ortega boys had an uncle in training in the Brigade 2506 or whatever that anti-Castro invasion force was called. A lot of kids in Epiphany school knew somebody off in training then. I don’t think it was a very well-kept secret that something was in the works. We were told often in those days that we were “only 90 miles from Cuba” and thus well in range of the Soviet missiles there. Our nuclear attack drills were frequent. We saw all the required movies and training films. The Cuban Missile Crisis was still a year away.

When the invasion started, the news was good. We talked about it in school and included those guys in prayers. The force was supposedly moving inland. Two days later it was over and the invaders were crushed. My clearest memory of that time is of a Cuban third-grader yelling at every kid on the bus that morning that Americans were cowards and whatever other bad names he could think of because we left his father to die on the beach. Then he started crying and his sister and some older girl tried to comfort him. Nobody disagreed with him. It seemed, at the time, that he was right. Nobody spoke at all. Happily for that kid, his father was in the second wave that never left Venezuela or wherever it was they deployed from — but he did not know that his father was safe for a couple of days.

I have never understood defenders of Fidel Castro or his ridiculous sociopath sidekick Che Guevara. I get that feeling clever is a big part of being a leftist and that finding reasons to attack and feel superior to your own culture, country, history, religion etc. is a big part of the gnostic ego trip that is the whole left-wing-progressive-socialist-liberal-whatever experience, but why be so stupid to pretend that a malignant megalomaniac like Fidel Castro is anything other than a monster? Does that prove one’s nuanced geopolitical sophistication? Or just gullibility?

One-fifth of Cubans have fled their country since Castro took control. The only one Castro ever wanted back was Elian Gonzalez, because the kid’s popularity seemed threatening. Cubans are poor, abused, closely-watched, and readily imprisoned … but whatever, health care is free there so that level of political repression is OK, or so I’m told by terribly clever people. (Cuban health care is of such high quality that Fidel went to Europe for treatment when he got cancer.)

Cuba is an economic failure of massive proportions. It no longer has a Soviet sponsor and its current sponsor (Venezuela) has destroyed its own economy (with the help of Cuban expert guidance).

A competent American leader would see an opportunity to finally pressure the regime out of existence instead of giving some final vindication to a monster and propping up his regime a little longer. A lot of innocent people deserve vindication. Even a symbolic capitulation to Castro seems disgraceful, even if all the really enlightened people are applauding it.

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  1. george.tobin@yahoo.com Member
    george.tobin@yahoo.com
    @OldBathos

    EThompson:I had a very interesting conversation today with a biz acquaintance I consider one of the most astute investors I know. He bought land in Cuba in the 50s and it is now worth 300% what he paid for it. Even as a capitalist *enemy* of the State, he was able to hold on to it because he pays some hefty property taxes.

    His take? There are plenty of American investors who, like him, may be encouraged to build and develop businesses because the Castro bros have run out of options. This could be a great thing for the residents of Cuba if we could open up industries and tourist trade that would provide jobs. Some legal stipulations need to be put into place to keep profits out of Castro’s hands, but I think the time is right.

    The free market could end up staging a successful revolution.

    I hope your friend is right.  But I have been hearing about investors poised to go into Cuba for most of my life… I know that there are Cuban-American businessmen who have these kinds of fairly detailed contingency plans in place.  Maybe good things are ahead for Cuba. Can’t be soon enough.

    • #31
  2. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Old Bathos:

    EThompson:I had a very interesting conversation today with a biz acquaintance I consider one of the most astute investors I know. He bought land in Cuba in the 50s and it is now worth 300% what he paid for it. Even as a capitalist *enemy* of the State, he was able to hold on to it because he pays some hefty property taxes.

    His take? There are plenty of American investors who, like him, may be encouraged to build and develop businesses because the Castro bros have run out of options. This could be a great thing for the residents of Cuba if we could open up industries and tourist trade that would provide jobs. Some legal stipulations need to be put into place to keep profits out of Castro’s hands, but I think the time is right.

    The free market could end up staging a successful revolution.

    I hope your friend is right. But I have been hearing about investors poised to go into Cuba for most of my life… I know that there are Cuban-American businessmen who have these kinds of fairly detailed contingency plans in place. Maybe good things are ahead for Cuba. Can’t be soon enough.

    As have I! It’s been a few decades indeed; I think the time is ripe because there are fewer and fewer untapped and accessible avenues for growth in this world.

    • #32
  3. user_44643 Inactive
    user_44643
    @MikeLaRoche

    Old Bathos:I get that feeling clever is a big part of being a leftist and that finding reasons to attack and feel superior to your own culture, country, history, religion etc. is a big part of the gnostic ego trip that is the whole left-wing-progressive-socialist-liberal-whatever experience…

    The same applies to many libertarians.

    • #33
  4. WI Con Member
    WI Con
    @WICon

    Old Bathos:

    Adam Koslin: Sure in the short term it’ll enrich the Castros, and sure other totalitarian states – China, principally – have demonstrated a talent for reaping the benefits of modernity but still keeping a boot on the populace’s neck. But do we really think that the ramshackle Castro machine is going to be as adroit at handling an overnight thaw as the Chinese were when they had twenty years to slowly ramp up? Blue jeans, and the Beatles did their part to break the Soviet Union…what chance does Cuba stand in the face of iPads and Google?

    The regime will not permit the level of exchange you describe which would indeed have the positive effects you predict. Obama will establish an embassy to give imprimatur to the regime & then allow more tourists to go the areas where tourists are permitted to go. The regime gets face-saving and hard currency, the people get squadoosh. They already know things are better elsewhere as do the NorKors. They just don’t have any hope of obtaining it. Helping the existing regime does not foster that hope.

    Absolutely Old Bathos. Yes, the United States has boycotted Cuba but plenty of other countries have not- the place is still is disaster! That fact and shaming the squish UN countries isn’t done enough. Deflect those assertions that the US is somehow at fault and ask those trading partners why their infusion of cash, tourism and goods haven’t worked.

    • #34
  5. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    EThompson: Maybe, but even China was forced to make some concessions to attract investment.

    China chose to do so. It wasn’t forced.

    That’s where the difference lies. Change in these communist counties has only ever happened in 2 ways (usually both simultaneously): 1) the regime has to want to change, or 2) the regime is overthrown.

    The “good” thing is that the new Castro brother has shown some signs of wanting to change. Lots of new “reforms” have been implemented in Cuba in recent years. There’s some signs that they understand this system cannot continue, and needs to change. The question is, how much will it change in the future and if this step is going to speed up reforms or not.

    People forget that even North Korea has…free trade zones :) where Western companies can operate. Often, its South Korean companies operating there, but all that has done is provide the NK regime with cash but has led to no noticeable change internally.

    The same applies to Iran. Lots of Western companies operate there (Mercedes even has factories to make luxury cars in Iran). That hasn’t led to any institutional change in Iran.

    Same with Russia. Lots of Western companies operate (or used to until now) there. Did Russia become freer, or more dictatorial?

    So the “naive view” of many libertarians that all you need is “trade”, and things will take care of their own, is unlikely. That only works if you have a regime that wants to change (like China, Vietnam, Burma etc.), not one which wants to remain the same (like NK or Iran or Russia).

    Trade with those places is probably a bad idea.

    • #35
  6. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    China chose to do so. It wasn’t forced.

    It certainly was forced in order to survive as a world power.

    Unlike other Communist countries, Cuba has a fairly recent history of entrepreneurialism; one of the reasons Cuban-Americans are one of the most fiscally successful minorities in this country.

    • #36
  7. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    I want very much to engage an economic SWAT team to save this country before the psychological damage of a Marxist regime can ruin it as it did Russia and sorrowfully, some of its satellites.

    • #37
  8. virgil15marlow@yahoo.com Coolidge
    virgil15marlow@yahoo.com
    @Manny

    Old Bathos: Old Bathos I think we are right to be pessimistic about the real Obama emerging in these lame duck years.  Maybe there should a prediction thread or contest as to what will be the most disgraceful thing Barrack Obama will do as he goes out the door.  What will be the Obama policy equivalent of the Marc Rich pardon?  He did make the Marc Rich bagman Attorney General so our expectations should be suitably low.

    The rumor is he’s going to give Guantanamo back to Cuba.

    • #38
  9. virgil15marlow@yahoo.com Coolidge
    virgil15marlow@yahoo.com
    @Manny

    I don’t care if it makes sense to open relations with this Cuba now.  I don’t think it does, but even if it did, I just don’t care, at least now with this Castro government.  We couldn’t wait a few more years until they croaked?  This is the government that stood side by side with the Soviets when it was an existential life and death conflict.  This is the government that was ready to allow nukes to be aimed at us from a spit-shot distance from our shores.  This is the government that has undermined freedom throughout the hemisphere and beyond.  This is the government that stole property and jailed thousands of free loving people who sided with our country.  I’ll be damned if I ever support these commie dictators in any way.  If I ever get to Cuba my intent is to spit on their graves.

    • #39
  10. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    EThompson: It certainly was forced in order to survive as a world power.

    China wasn’t a world power. It was a basket case of starvation. They chose to change once the old guard had died or was arrested. China wanted to change.

    The same is now being repeated in Vietnam and Burma.

    EThompson: Unlike other Communist countries, Cuba has a fairly recent history of entrepreneurialism; one of the reasons Cuban-Americans are one of the most fiscally successful minorities in this country

    Cuban Americans are more successful because almost all of them are from the Cuban upper classes, not starving peasants from the Mexican desert.

    • #40
  11. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    AIG:

    EThompson: It certainly was forced in order to survive as a world power.

    China wasn’t a world power. It was a basket case of starvation. They chose to change once the old guard had died or was arrested. China wanted to change.

    The same is now being repeated in Vietnam and Burma.

    EThompson: Unlike other Communist countries, Cuba has a fairly recent history of entrepreneurialism; one of the reasons Cuban-Americans are one of the most fiscally successful minorities in this country

    Cuban Americans are more successful because almost all of them are from the Cuban upper classes, not starving peasants from the Mexican desert.

    You’re making my point exactly about China and do not think for one minute that the upper class Cubans who migrated here do not have roots and influence in their home country. I live in SW Florida and know better.

    • #41
  12. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    EThompson: You’re making my point exactly about China

    I don’t see how. My point is that China, once it changed its leadership, was looking for a way to open to the West. It was in a state of war with the Soviets, isolated from the rest of the world, and ideologically it wanted to abandon communism.

    It’s not clear yet that Raul wants to abandon communism, however. If he does, that this move indeed will make a difference. If not, then it will have the opposite effect of reinforcing his rule.

    • #42
  13. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    AIG:

    EThompson: You’re making my point exactly about China

    I don’t see how. My point is that China, once it changed its leadership, was looking for a way to open to the West. It was in a state of war with the Soviets, isolated from the rest of the world, and ideologically it wanted to abandon communism.

    Yikes, I couldn’t disagree more with you re: China. They have no desire to abandon communism but realize they need a little bit of highly regulated business disguised as *capitalism* to fund their military and nukes.

    They had the sense to leave their crown jewel Hong Kong alone for a bit but made a very bad mistake recently with the attempt to control elections. I can’t wait for that one to explode even more and I’ll be backing the last pure examples of the free market -Kowloon, HK Island, and the New Territories – every step of the way.

    • #43
  14. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    EThompson: He bought land in Cuba in the 50s and it is now worth 300% what he paid for it.

    I don’t know what kind of revenues he accrued from this property, but an increase in value of about 2%/year doesn’t sound like a particularly astute investment.

    EThompson: This could be a great thing for the residents of Cuba if we could open up industries and tourist trade that would provide jobs. Some legal stipulations need to be put into place to keep profits out of Castro’s hands, but I think the time is right.

    Yeah, who is going to put such legal stipulations into effect? Why would the Castro brothers allow this? And why is now the right time?

    • #44
  15. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    rico:

    EThompson: He bought land in Cuba in the 50s and it is now worth 300% what he paid for it.

    I don’t know what kind of revenues he accrued from this property, but an increase in value of about 2%/year doesn’t sound like a particularly astute investment.

    EThompson: This could be a great thing for the residents of Cuba if we could open up industries and tourist trade that would provide jobs. Some legal stipulations need to be put into place to keep profits out of Castro’s hands, but I think the time is right.

    Yeah, who is going to put such legal stipulations into effect? Why would the Castro brothers allow this? And why is now the right time?

    A 300% return from property that has never been permitted to develop in a Communist country is unimpressive?

    My point is this- the Castro bros are weak and the country is far too geographically close and culturally connected to one of America’s most prosperous states. We’ve never paid attention to it after the 1960s and I think this is a mistake.

    This country is low hanging fruit.

    I thoroughly disapprove of everything Obama does – particularly in terms of foreign policy – but I didn’t necessarily object to his visit. Even better? A visit from Senator Rubio so beleaguered Cubans can truly get a taste of the possibilities that so easily await them.

    I would support nation building here because it’s culturally feasible and the economic possibilities are endless for American entrepreneurs.

    • #45
  16. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Misthiocracy: The rest of the planet does not have an embargo against Cuba.

    This is a point that Obama also made at 1:55 in his announcement:

    And though this policy has been rooted in the best of intentions, no other nation joins us in imposing these sanctions,…

    Then, about a minute later Obama said this:

    …a younger generation of Cuban Americans has increasingly questioned an approach that does more to keep Cuba closed off from an interconnected world.

    Obama is selling the notion that Cuba has access to the entire world, but Cuba is  isolated from the world by the US embargo. I lost count of the number of commenters on Fred’s posts that seem to be taken in by this fallacy instead of recognizing the more logical conclusion:

    Misthiocracy: If the Castro regime wanted the Cuban people to have modern cars, modern technology, and modern opportunities, it’s people would have them.

    • #46
  17. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    EThompson: A 300% return from property that has never been permitted to develop in a Communist country is unimpressive?

    Yes. The funds would have been better off in a passbook savings account.

    EThompson: My point is this- the Castro bros are weak and the country is far too geographically close and culturally connected with one of America’s most prosperous states.

    True. But they were getting weaker by the minute until Obama intervened. Time was on our side.

    EThompson: A visit from Senator Rubio so beleaguered Cubans can truly get a taste of the possibilities that so easily await them.

    C’mon, you know better. Why would the Castro brothers give Rubio a soapbox to speak his mind freely to their subjects?

    • #47
  18. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    rico:

    EThompson: A 300% return from property that has never been permitted to develop in a Communist country is unimpressive?

    Yes. The funds would have been better off in a passbook savings account.

    EThompson: My point is this- the Castro bros are weak and the country is far too geographically close and culturally connected with one of America’s most prosperous states.

    True. But they were getting weaker by the minute until Obama intervened. Time was on our side.

    EThompson: A visit from Senator Rubio so beleaguered Cubans can truly get a taste of the possibilities that so easily await them.

    C’mon, you know better. Why would the Castro brothers give Rubio a soapbox to speak his mind freely to their subjects?

    1. Obama is considered such a lightweight in the international community, I believe you give his intervention too much credit. I understand your concern that his visit gave the regime credibility, but I doubt it. It may have given oppressed Cubans a glimpse of the possibilities available in this country i.e. Yes, you too can become president regardless of your lack of qualifications. (Ok, my bad for the cynicism.)

    2. Re: Rubio. Yeah, I know it would not only be impossible but quite likely a dangerous trip for him at this point but maybe not as vice-president!

    • #48
  19. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    EThompson: I understand your concern that his visit gave the regime credibility, but I doubt it. It may have given oppressed Cubans a glimpse of the possibilities available in this country i.e. Yes, you too can become president regardless of your lack of qualifications. (Ok, my bad for the cynicism.)

    You make an excellent point here. I’m against Obama’s overtures to the Castro regime in general, but an Obama visit and kiss-up to the despicable Castro brothers mitigates that sentiment to a degree. The lowering of Obama’s personal stature would disgust even many of his own True Believers. And then there’s the beauty of his media lemmings following him over the edge of the cliff.

    • #49
  20. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    EThompson: Re: Rubio. Yeah, I know it would not only be impossible but quite likely a dangerous trip for him at this point but maybe not as vice-president!

    What!? Vice-President? I thought he was your guy? Surely, you’re not throwing in the towel already? Not now, when even ‘senators need not apply’ conservatives like me are gaining an appreciation for Rubio’s foreign policy acumen and leadership.

    • #50
  21. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    rico:

    EThompson: Re: Rubio. Yeah, I know it would not only be impossible but quite likely a dangerous trip for him at this point but maybe not as vice-president!

    What!? Vice-President? I thought he was your guy? Surely, you’re not throwing in the towel already? Not now, when even ‘senators need not apply’ conservatives like me are gaining an appreciation for Rubio’s foreign policy acumen and leadership.

    I’m certainly not throwing in the towel because I remain a steadfast and stubborn supporter of Romney!

    My dream team is Romney/Rubio 2016 and I feel so strongly on the subject, I’d take a leave of absence from my job to campaign for this ticket.

    • #51
  22. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    rico:

    EThompson: Re: Rubio. Yeah, I know it would not only be impossible but quite likely a dangerous trip for him at this point but maybe not as vice-president!

    What!? Vice-President? I thought he was your guy? Surely, you’re not throwing in the towel already? Not now, when even ‘senators need not apply’ conservatives like me are gaining an appreciation for Rubio’s foreign policy acumen and leadership.

    Ahh! I think I’m beginning to understand what your talking about!

    — a good running mate for this guy:

    bobby_jindal-grin-150x150 images

    • #52
  23. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    rico:

    rico:

    EThompson: Re: Rubio. Yeah, I know it would not only be impossible but quite likely a dangerous trip for him at this point but maybe not as vice-president!

    What!? Vice-President? I thought he was your guy? Surely, you’re not throwing in the towel already? Not now, when even ‘senators need not apply’ conservatives like me are gaining an appreciation for Rubio’s foreign policy acumen and leadership.

    Ahh! I think I’m beginning to understand what your talking about!

    — a good running mate for this guy:

    bobby_jindal-grin-150x150 images

    I’d like to see Jindal as Secretary of State. He’s super smart and I’d like this country to try to rebuild the relationship W established with super power India. Jindal could help here not only because of his ancestral roots but because of his economic acumen.

    • #53
  24. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    EThompson:

    rico:

    rico:

    EThompson: Re: Rubio. Yeah, I know it would not only be impossible but quite likely a dangerous trip for him at this point but maybe not as vice-president!

    What!? Vice-President? I thought he was your guy? Surely, you’re not throwing in the towel already? Not now, when even ‘senators need not apply’ conservatives like me are gaining an appreciation for Rubio’s foreign policy acumen and leadership.

    Ahh! I think I’m beginning to understand what your talking about!

    — a good running mate for this guy:

    bobby_jindal-grin-150x150 images

    I’d like to see Jindal as Secretary of State. He’s super smart and I’d like this country to try to rebuild the relationship W established with super power India. Jindal could help here not only because of his ancestral roots but because of his economic acumen.

    Let’s agree that the GOP has a lot of talented young leaders, many of whom could perform in various roles at the highest levels of government. Conservatives will have to bind together to see to it that the electorate at large is brought to this realization. THAT is the message.

    • #54
  25. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    rico:

    EThompson:

    rico:

    rico:

    EThompson: Re: Rubio. Yeah, I know it would not only be impossible but quite likely a dangerous trip for him at this point but maybe not as vice-president!

    What!? Vice-President? I thought he was your guy? Surely, you’re not throwing in the towel already? Not now, when even ‘senators need not apply’ conservatives like me are gaining an appreciation for Rubio’s foreign policy acumen and leadership.

    Ahh! I think I’m beginning to understand what your talking about!

    — a good running mate for this guy:

    bobby_jindal-grin-150x150 images

    I’d like to see Jindal as Secretary of State. He’s super smart and I’d like this country to try to rebuild the relationship W established with super power India. Jindal could help here not only because of his ancestral roots but because of his economic acumen.

    Let’s agree that the GOP has a lot of talented young leaders, many of whom could perform in various roles at the highest levels of government. Conservatives will have to bind together to see to it that the electorate at large is brought to this realization. THAT is the message.

    Agree. But I have to have a specific plan.

    • #55
  26. Mario the Gator Inactive
    Mario the Gator
    @Pelayo

    Amen.  Great post.

    • #56
  27. AIG Inactive
    AIG
    @AIG

    EThompson: Yikes, I couldn’t disagree more with you re: China. They have no desire to abandon communism but realize they need a little bit of highly regulated business disguised as *capitalism* to fund their military and nukes.

    Reality says otherwise. There’s nothing communist about China today. They already have abandoned communism.

    They may be dictatorial, but that’s not the same thing as communism.

    • #57
  28. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    AIG:

    EThompson: Yikes, I couldn’t disagree more with you re: China. They have no desire to abandon communism but realize they need a little bit of highly regulated business disguised as *capitalism* to fund their military and nukes.

    Reality says otherwise. There’s nothing communist about China today. They already have abandoned communism.

    They may be dictatorial, but that’s not the same thing as communism.

    Indeed, today’s China could pretty easily be described as Fascist rather than Communist.

    • #58
  29. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Misthiocracy:

    AIG:

    EThompson: Yikes, I couldn’t disagree more with you re: China. They have no desire to abandon communism but realize they need a little bit of highly regulated business disguised as *capitalism* to fund their military and nukes.

    Reality says otherwise. There’s nothing communist about China today. They already have abandoned communism.

    They may be dictatorial, but that’s not the same thing as communism.

    Indeed, today’s China could pretty easily be described as Fascist rather than Communist.

    I don’t agree. The Party still regulates wages and housing and retains the power to appoint and dismiss workers. Places of worship are monitored closely if allowed to exist at all.

    • #59
  30. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    EThompson:

    Misthiocracy:

    AIG:

    EThompson: Yikes, I couldn’t disagree more with you re: China. They have no desire to abandon communism but realize they need a little bit of highly regulated business disguised as *capitalism* to fund their military and nukes.

    Reality says otherwise. There’s nothing communist about China today. They already have abandoned communism.

    They may be dictatorial, but that’s not the same thing as communism.

    Indeed, today’s China could pretty easily be described as Fascist rather than Communist.

    I don’t agree. The Party still regulates wages and housing and retains the power to appoint and dismiss workers. Places of worship are monitored closely if allowed to exist at all.

    In 1930s Germany, wages and prices were controlled under penalty of concentration camp. Financial investment and entrepreneurial freedom was regulated as per the needs of the state. During Hitler’s dictatorship, more than 6,000 clergymen, on the charge of treasonable activity, were imprisoned or executed. Etc. Etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

    • #60
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