Do You Trust the System?

 

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Let’s play a little game. Imagine for a moment that you’ve been accused of a crime. As a good citizen, you go through the motions…arrest, bail, arraignment, hire the best damned lawyer you can, assist in preparing your defense, etc. You are a model prisoner during your short stay beneath the court house, unlike certain district attorneys lately in the news. The charge is a serious one, and the evidence is dicey; however, the crime you’re accused of is an emotional hot button issue. 

Through the process, the prosecution has blown right past every opportunity to do the right thing, consider the whole situation, and dismiss the charges. After all the preparation work is done, a deal is offered which you reject, immediately and with obscenities, because you’d rather go to prison than impugn your own character and tarnish your integrity by taking the easy way out. A deal is a lie. Always. Your life is not a used car over which to haggle. 

The day of trial approaches. Your attorney will make no guarantees, but he assures you that your chances of acquittal are better than average. The evidence isn’t great for the prosecution, and he has some tricks up his sleeve that should really help. Your family and friends stand with you. Everyone who has heard of the situation is dumbfounded that such an asinine travesty has been carried so far. And yet: fear. 

Imagine you’re in this situation. We are a nation of laws. We have a system designed to impartially, and as fairly as possible, determine guilt or innocence. As a right-thinking (and -leaning) person, you’ve placed a lot of stock in the system to do its job and get it right as often as is humanly possible. These are all fine words and ideas, but now it’s your life, your liberty in jeopardy. Do you trust the system?

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  1. Son of Spengler Member
    Son of Spengler
    @SonofSpengler

    On the question of whether there’s in fact a better system, it may be that our system used to work better but has degraded. Mark Steyn has written about how the balance of prosecutor, defense, judge, and jury has been corrupted. The proliferation of laws–in particular process-oriented laws and regulations that are often nebulously defined–means that a citizen can’t have a reasonable expectation of knowing them. It’s likely that none of us is actually law-abiding, as Harvey Silverglate has demonstrated. Prosecutors, who have historically lacked immunity, have been given immunity by the courts. They can thus build a case against a defendant, picking and choosing the violations, without meaningful personal consequences for abuse of power. The defendant’s right to a speedy trial is also effectively nullified. Prosecutors use their power to push plea bargains rather than prove their case in court. Because everyone is in violation of some charge (selected to fit), full acquittal is unlikely except in the case of jury nullification, an inept prosecutor, or an exceptionally independent-minded judge. And even in the case of acquittal, as Mark Steyn has written, the process is the punishment.

    (cont.)

    • #91
  2. Son of Spengler Member
    Son of Spengler
    @SonofSpengler

    (cont. from #91)

    I would have much more faith in our system if the laws were clear; if prosecutors had to present their case in court, in a reasonable timeframe, or drop the charges; and if prosecutors were held to account for abuse of power.

    • #92
  3. Foxfier Inactive
    Foxfier
    @Foxfier

    James Of England:

     In China, the judges appear to be there to rubber stamp the decisions of the Prosecutor (Amy and I literally had a judge tell us that the purpose of the trial was to give the defendant the opportunity to show remorse and to beg for forgiveness, not to establish facts.)

     So that’s where they stole the Cardassian system for Deep Space Nine from.  It was so ridiculous I knew it had to be a direct lift from somewhere.

    • #93
  4. Rachel Lu Member
    Rachel Lu
    @RachelLu

    Oh, KP, I’m so sorry for your troubles! You certainly have my prayers.

    • #94
  5. Metalheaddoc Member
    Metalheaddoc
    @Metalheaddoc

    I think I trust the system itself, but not the people implementing the system. I think I trusted it more in the old days (not sure when that was) because people played their role. Judges judged impartially. Juries did their best to figure guilt or innocence. Cops enforced the laws in a fair manner. Etc.

    Now it seems that everyone won’t stay in their lane.  Judges operate based not on the law, but what they think the law should be. Cops see themselves apart from and above the citizen and expect obedience. Too much deference to the state and not enough  to the citizen/defendant. Too many cases tried in the court of public opinion in which the sentence is more permanent than the court sentence.  Too much leeway given to bureaucratic forms of “justice”, like child services taking away kids for the silliest of reasons, which is a punishment far worse than jail or fines. Tickets, citations, fines, arrests, property seizures, no-knock raids, cops shooting dogs, militarized police. Endless and ever increasing forms of harassment and control by the state. Too little law on the border. Way too much law applied to the ordinary citizen. 

    • #95
  6. BastiatJunior Member
    BastiatJunior
    @BastiatJunior

    I’ll keep you in my prayers, KP.

    • #96
  7. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    There are really sharp attorneys out there.  

    People need to get the best representation they can, and they need to be in sync with their attorney.  

    It may seem overwhelming to switch attorneys, but if a person needs to, he or she should do so.

    • #97
  8. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Foxfier:

    James Of England:

    So that’s where they stole the Cardassian system for Deep Space Nine from. It was so ridiculous I knew it had to be a direct lift from somewhere.

     The Cardassians are probably modeled on the Soviets, but historically it’s not a terribly unusual approach. 

    The King Prawn:  I won’t go into too much detail yet (I hope to write a whole series of posts about the experience on the other side, provided my liberty remains intact to do so), but here is what I will say.

     You’re in a lot of our prayers. 

    • #98
  9. Susan in Seattle Member
    Susan in Seattle
    @SusaninSeattle

    The King Prawn: I won’t go into too much detail yet (I hope to write a whole series of posts about the experience on the other side, provided my liberty remains intact to do so), but here is what I will say.

    You’re in a lot of our prayers.

    King Prawn, I hope not to overstep my bounds but yes, James –  and others –  please hold KP and family tightly.

    • #99
  10. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    The King Prawn:

    Go best case scenario, Mis. Criminal charges, county jurisdiction, elected prosecutor (though handled by an assistant, of course), and no self incrimination throughout the process. As the original scenario states, the evidence is not solid. There is no slam dunk for the prosecution, but it is an emotional issue from which he can hope to garner rage out of the jury…

     

    I guess my overly simplistic answer to a (overly?) simple question is “trust but verify”.

    I do not trust any governmental system to “take care of me”, and that certainly also goes for the justice system. Governmental systems are designed for the benefit of the government and the state as a whole, not for little old me.

    However, if I take responsibility for understanding how the justice system works and I choose my actions accordingly (never waive your rights, never consent to searches, never answer questions without legal counsel, etc, etc) I am more than 50% confident that I’ll come out ahead in the end.

    I’m also more than 50% confident that the majority of people who get screwed by the system did not take adequate responsibility for exercising their own rights.

    • #100
  11. virgil15marlow@yahoo.com Coolidge
    virgil15marlow@yahoo.com
    @Manny

    The King Prawn:

    Wylee Coyote: Good golly, Prawn, what kind of trouble are you in??

    I won’t go into too much detail yet (I hope to write a whole series of posts about the experience on the other side, provided my liberty remains intact to do so), but here is what I will say. I have a very angry, highly intelligent, potentially sociopathic teenage daughter whose own therapist does not believe her ever evolving tale of woe and who is more concerned with how much time she’ll miss at school with her friends than with how much destruction will be visited upon her entire family should her testimony put me in prison. The up side of all this is that my marriage has been lost and then found, I’ve not yet been evicted from either my employment or my home, my faith has been remade in ways I could never have conceived of, and should this end favorably I’ll have the posts of the year to craft here.

     Oh wow.  I’ll offer prayers for you as well. 

    • #101
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