Hints at the Origin of Life?

 

This truly isn’t meant to be a stick in the eye for creationists/anti-evolutionists. This post is about a scientific breakthrough that is remarkably fascinating.

Scientists have accidentally discovered metabolic pathways mediated by non-organic molecules. The same process that occurs in cells, glycolysis, has been observed being “catalysed by metal ions rather than the enzymes that drive them in cells today.” And “many of these reactions could have occurred spontaneously in Earth’s early oceans.”

This could indicate an important precursor to the same process in cells.

As with any monumental discovery, it’s easy to treat this as overly conclusive. Nonetheless, this is, as far as I know, an unprecedented finding that may provide tremendous insights into the origins of life and inorganic compounds.

The mind reels.

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  1. Majestyk Member
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    Larry Koler:

    Majestyk: Galactic foreground. Explain that criticism.

     Without doing too much homework I would suggest you start to look at star angle differentials, which allow you to determine the relative distance from our location to another object as we orbit the sun.  The less the apparent angle differential, the greater the distance between us and that object.  Thus, once you isolate the objects that are relatively close, i.e., in our galactic neighborhood you can begin to figure out what the sources of microwave interference are and what the cosmic background consists of.

    Of course, when looking at the sky, if you look towards the galactic center you’re going to get more interference because the density of the galactic center is higher, but you can still filter out light coming from the galactic center by spectroscopy (the vast majority of the light is coming from stars which are very hot and not moving away from us as the boundary of the known universe is) but the vast majority of even the galactic center is empty and allows microwaves and other electromagnetic radiation through.

    • #31
  2. user_5186 Inactive
    user_5186
    @LarryKoler

    Majestyk:

    Larry Koler:

    Majestyk: Galactic foreground. Explain that criticism.

    Without doing too much homework I would suggest you start to look at star angle differentials, which allow you to determine the relative distance from our location to another object as we orbit the sun. The less the apparent angle differential, the greater the distance between us and that object. Thus, once you isolate the objects that are relatively close, i.e., in our galactic neighborhood you can begin to figure out what the sources of microwave interference are and what the cosmic background consists of.

    Of course, when looking at the sky, if you look towards the galactic center you’re going to get more interference because the density of the galactic center is higher, but you can still filter out light coming from the galactic center by spectroscopy (the vast majority of the light is coming from stars which are very hot and not moving away from us as the boundary of the known universe is) but the vast majority of even the galactic center is empty and allows microwaves and other electromagnetic radiation through.

     Something tells me you didn’t watch the video.

    • #32
  3. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    And… this is the ad I’m getting for this post:

    I’ll bet that glass of water is just full of dihydrogen monoxide.

    • #33
  4. user_5186 Inactive
    user_5186
    @LarryKoler

    Percival:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    And… this is the ad I’m getting for this post:

    I’ll bet that glass of water is just full of dihydrogen monoxide.

     That sounds like a pollutant to me. We are in big trouble.

    • #34
  5. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    John, do you find this discovery interesting?

    • #35
  6. user_5186 Inactive
    user_5186
    @LarryKoler

    anonymous:


    But look away from the galactic plane. We have now had three space missions measuring the cosmic background, COBE, WMAP, and Planck, and each has confirmed and refined the results of those that went before. These measurements are consistent with those made from Earth and balloon-borne instruments.

    One can argue about how one subtracts out the galactic foreground, but for most of the sky the effects of this are negligible. One finds a power spectrum which is precisely what is expected from the standard model of cosmology. This is arguably one of the greatest experimental confirmations of a theoretical prediction in the last half century.

     John, please watch the video. Two days ago I would have assumed this theory had something to offer. After Mr. Robitaille got done with me I had a better understanding of how they conducted the experiment and how the associated sensors work. The galactic foreground is not just in the disk, it’s just stronger there. It’s surrounding us.
    Most important, the image created with their data reduction and analysis methods is not the same year to year. Now this says it all. Please don’t just recite textbook stuff. 

    • #36
  7. user_5186 Inactive
    user_5186
    @LarryKoler

    anonymous:

    Larry Koler:

    The most interesting thing to date is the spacing of RNA molecules and the correspondence to that of clay minerals. These are little tiny tiny tiny steps in the story that must be put together to show how life comes from dirt. It ain’t gonna happen. The more we know about the cell the more clear that Darwinism is a foolish theory and it always was.

    Darwinism has nothing to say about the origin of life: the emergence of the first replicator from prebiotic chemicals. Once you have a replicator, variation and selection kick in and may explain the emergence of increasing complexity as these organisms are challenged by changes in their environment and competition for finite resources.

    The big question is how that first replicator came to be, and that is an enigma without any plausible theory to explain it today.

     I take your point — Darwin didn’t theorize about the origins of life.
    Do you take mine? It’s the unguided aspect of this whole way of thinking that is at the heart of Darwinism. Origin of life scientists are not looking into what an intelligent designing approach would give us, are they?

    • #37
  8. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @

    My take on these findings.
    There are several enzymes involved in metabolism.  They are complex proteins that are designed by our Creator to fold and recombine with each other in ways that drive the metabolic process forward.  
    These researchers have found that when some of these enzymes are cooked in a broth rich in an assortment of minerals, they will fold and recombine with each other in ways that mimic what they are naturally intended to do in metabolism.  After awhile, they actually produced some of the precursor molecules for later stages of metabolism, even in the absence of other normally-needed enzymes.

    This tells me that our Creator has devised a process that is so robust that the enzymes of metabolism naturally fold and recombine with each other in ways that can result in the intended result even in adverse circumstances.

    Praise be to God.

    These findings are still a very very long way from replication.   The celebration over this finding amounts to exuberance by the proponents of Big Evolution that they have found another straw to grasp.

    • #38
  9. user_5186 Inactive
    user_5186
    @LarryKoler

    MJBubba:

    Praise be to God.

    These findings are still a very very long way from replication. The celebration over this finding amounts to exuberance by the proponents of Big Evolution that they have found another straw to grasp.

     Nicely said. This is sad to watch in a way. 160 years and still nothing substantial in way of real evidence and yet it is clutched and grasped to their bosoms in a fierce embrace that strangles all the fun out of the search for the truth. And more explanatory additions to the theory than ever — more and more little explanations about how it just might be. And they just know they are right.

    • #39
  10. Ryan M Inactive
    Ryan M
    @RyanM

    Mike H:

    Can’t we simply bask in the awesomeness of the unexpected? The best types of discoveries are the ones that were never predicted.

     Mike, I wasn’t being sarcastic.  I don’t know much about the science involved, but what I’ve found is that because things have great practical applications, people are inclined to attribute great philosophical implications.  My wife and I have a friend with a 5 y/o at Children’s hospital in Seattle for Lymphoma – which is why my first thought was “will it help to cure cancer?”  Funny how we get amazing discoveries and people immediately jump to theorize the end of religion.  Yet, those same discoveries often lead to very real benefits – I suppose some people would refer to them as blessings, pointing to, rather than away from, God.  :)

    • #40
  11. user_48342 Member
    user_48342
    @JosephEagar

    This is new?  I remember reading much the same thing in my high school biology textbook fifteen years ago .

    • #41
  12. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    Joseph Eagar:

    This is new? I remember reading much the same thing in my high school biology textbook fifteen years ago .

     Valiuth probably can guess what you’re thinking of.

    Ryan M: Funny how we get amazing discoveries and people immediately jump to theorize the end of religion. 

    I agree. This isn’t about that. There will be no end to religion. It’s a really cool though, and you’re right, one could easily imagine real world applications. 

    • #42
  13. Grendel Member
    Grendel
    @Grendel

    Yawn.
    An interesting discovery, but its implications are virtually nil.  As Mr Darcy pointed out, “Any savage can dance” . . . and therefore the Trobriand islanders taught the Viennese to waltz.
    And as the article says:

    There is one big problem, however. “For origins of life, it is important to understand where the source molecules come from,” Powner says. No one has yet shown that such substances could form spontaneously in the early oceans.

    A related issue is that the reactions observed so far only go in one direction; from complex sugars to simpler molecules like pyruvate. “Given the data, one might well conclude that any organics in the ocean would have been totally degraded, rather than forming the basis of modern metabolism,” says Jack Szostak, who studies the origin of life at Harvard. “I would conclude that metabolism had to evolve, within cells, one reaction and one catalyst at a time.”

    • #43
  14. user_48342 Member
    user_48342
    @JosephEagar

    Mike H:

    Joseph Eagar:

    This is new? I remember reading much the same thing in my high school biology textbook fifteen years ago .

    Valiuth probably can guess what you’re thinking of

    I wasn’t being sarcastic.  I really do remember reading about an experiment, supposedly done in the 80s, where scientists simulated early oceanic environments and found exactly this sort of metabolic pathways.

    I mean, it’s cool, but I don’t think it’s new.  These people may be building on the earlier research, but there is earlier research.

    • #44
  15. SoCal Scientist Inactive
    SoCal Scientist
    @SoCalScientist

    Interesting result and one that could have an impact in the development of new catalysts.  It is too bad that the creationists started their usual rant and stepped on an important discovery.

    • #45
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