Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
On the latest Left Coast/Right Coast podcast Jennifer Rubin (increasingly ironically described as 'from the right') says (using Mickey Kaus's transcript) "the one thing [Rick Perry] actually believes is that the country went wrong starting with the New Deal", as though this is self-evidently crazy.
But is it? For which of these initiatives has the good outweighed the bad?
- Wagner Act and the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB)
- FDIC
- Federal Crop Insurance Corporation (no, really)
- Federal Housing Administration
- Tennessee Valley Authority (singled out by Reagan in his 1964 speech)
- Securities and Exchange Commission
- Social Security
It doesn't seem crazy to me to point to the New Deal as a moment when the US took a big step down the wrong road.
The crazy thing to me would be if someone who is meant to "believe ... that liberty, opportunity, and free enterprise have led to [American] prosperity and strength before and will do so again [if we can] restore the foundations of our nation’s strength" - being "a love of liberty and a pioneering spirit of innovation and creativity" - someone like, say, Mitt Romney - if that person had advisers describing such a stance as "radical rhetoric ... unlike anything we’ve seen from a modern candidate for elective office" as though that was a bad thing.
Don't get me wrong. There are, as they say, a lot of reasons not to elect Rick Perry. And lots of things his rivals for the nomination can and should attack him on. But telling a hard truth about the trajectory of the relationship of state and citizen is not one of them.
But, then, I hang out on Ricochet. I can handle the truth.
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Dec '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
If you want to make this song a duet I'm available. The programs of the New Deal were not just wrong concerning our founding ideals, they are wrong for all the reasons our basic ideology is right. Each program destroys liberty while enlarging the state. Each elevates the collective over the individual. Each demands a sacrifice of the self for the sake of the whole. Every bit of it was, is, and will continue to be a cancer in our nation. We've come along way from "give me liberty or give me death" to give me my check.
Oct '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
KP - I'm a big fan of choral music!
I see Romney is doubling down on Social Security. From the 'White Paper' Rick Perry's Proposal to Turn Social Security Over To The States:
"Social Security is America’s social safety net for the elderly and disabled. The program was enacted in 1935 in the midst of the Great Depression as part of the New Deal. While it initially sparked controversy, it has over seven decades proved to be a success, providing needed benefits to millions of Americans in need and serving as a source of retirement income for America’s middle class."
I guess middle class welfare is official Romney policy, now. And I so wanted to like him.
Dec '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
I tried to like him in '08. I got really, really close. This time around I just can't.
I have no issue with a safety net or a hand up. Making the entire nation dependent on government for 20 years when they have nothing to do but vote is grotesque. It is the kind of power the founders fought like hell to prevent. Social security is the epic fail of our nation. Medicare simply triples down on it.
Jun '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Let's make it a trio.
The New Deal has been more accurately described as the Raw Deal and marks a turning point where the progressives managed to prolong a depression and persuade themselves and lots of others that that their big spending policies would have done the trick if only they had been bigger. (This sharply contrasts with the Great Depression of 1920-21 that was short, because government did not try to help.)
The Raw Deal was a large jump toward the nanny state we now have to fight.
I don't see Jennifer Rubin as representing the right in much, but then again, Mickey Kaus does not represent the left in much, either.
Aug '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
I sing bass - so it's now officially a Gospel Quartet.
The New Deal is the root of most of America's current problems. It is proof the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Dec '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Need a soprano?
I just wanna spit every time Romney talks about Social Security. He is obviously not a conservative in his bones and not what is desperately needed at this time. I have this sinking feeling, though, he is Romney the Inevitable. God help us.
Jul '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
This needs to be a choir. Hasn't Jennifer read The Forgotten Man?
Sep '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
To determine whether any or all of these programs were wrong, it would be fair to attempt to caluculate the aggregate well being that they have promoted. Tens of millions of elderly, affirmed, widowed, and orphaned have benefited from Social Security. Can't we agree that is good?
That presumes you agree that "promoting the general welfare" was a legitimate aim in our constitution and that a country as powerful as ours should have a safety net.
Edited on Sep 23, 2011 at 9:57amSep '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
We might want to rethink the harmony. As Charles Krauthammer once said, FDR probably saved America, not because the New Deal was good fiscal policy but because, without it, the United States might well have fallen into socialism or even communism, as radical populism was being stoked throughout the country, most especially through the bullhorn of Huey Long. FDR was scared to death of Huey Long and with good reason. So maybe there's at least one major scale note in this song.
Dec '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Lt Colonel Don: To determine whether any or all of these programs were wrong, wouldn't it be fair to attempt to caluculate the aggregate well being that they have promoted. Tens of millions of elderly, affirmed, widowed, and orphaned have benefited from Social Security. Can't we agree that is good?
That presumes you agree that "promoting the general welfare" was a legitimate aim in our constitution and that a country as powerful as ours should have a safety net. · Sep 23 at 9:53am
You are correct, sir. However, a defined benefit pension available to every person in the country is no safety net.
Apr '11
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Dec '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
...and very admiring of Mussolini prior to the outbreak of hostilities. FDR was the most effective president at insinuating socialism into America under the guise of helping widows and orphans. As Amity Shlaes says, he was great as a war leader with the added benefit that, having focused exclusively on the war effort, he turned away from government intrusion and even aligned with the previously maligned captains of American industry to fight the war.
Social Security was/is a false promise. That it took a couple generations to reveal the lie doesn't make it less so. Ponzi schemes have a shorter duration because the perp doesn't have the borrowing and money printing power of the federal government.
Oct '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Well, I think to be fair we have to either
Or both.
And congratulations on the promotion, if I'm reading the evolution of your nick aright (:
Feb '11
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
I tend to believe that FDR's status as a wartime president, presiding over what Americans, especially conservatives, believe is our most just war, lends greatly to his 'aura' of complete benevolence surrounding his domestic policies.
Dec '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Andrew McCarthy turns the thumb screws on SS a little in this posting at NRO. Also here.
Edited on Sep 23, 2011 at 10:57amJan '11
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
The New Deal means FDR and FDR means the New Deal. FDR is often declared to be the greatest President of the 20th Century, superior to Ronald Reagan. What a crock! Here are some highlights of FDR and of the New Deal.
- Gave America the NRA Blue Eagle regulatory regime
- Failed to end the Depression
- Attempted to pack the Supreme Court for purely political purposes
- Caught by surprise at Pearl Harbor
- Interned American citizens in concentration camps
Exactly which one of these "missteps" pales next to Iran-Contra?
The New Deal was the second major outbreak of the alien political virus called social democracy, a disease of German origin. It was never successfully treated. Even today, 75 years later, it still needs to be stamped out, eradicated. Therefore...
Elect no Democrat anywhere, ever.
Edited on Sep 23, 2011 at 11:03amDec '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Freesmith: The New Deal means FDR and FDR means the New Deal. FDR is often declared to be the greatest President of the 20th Century, superior to Ronald Reagan. What a crock! Here are some highlights of FDR and of the New Deal.
- Gave America the NRA Blue Eagle regulatory regime
- Failed to end the Depression
- Attempted to pack the Supreme Court for purely political purposes
- Caught by surprise at Pearl Harbor
- Interned American citizens in concentration camps
Exactly which one of these "missteps" pales next to Iran-Contra?
The New Deal was the second major outbreak of the alien political virus called social democracy, a disease of German origin. It was never successfully treated. Even today, 75 years later, it still needs to be stamped out, eradicated. Therefore...
Elect no Democrat anywhere, ever. · Sep 23 at 11:00am
Edited on Sep 23 at 11:03 am
Just one quibble.. FDR didn't just fail to end the GD. His policies prolonged and worsened it. Obama may really be the new FDR, without the wartime leadership competence.
Sep '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
I never meant to indicate that the New Deal was a long-term good, but I do think that revolution would have been much much worse for both then and now.
Western Chauvinist
...and very admiring of Mussolini prior to the outbreak of hostilities. FDR was the most effective president at insinuating socialism into America under the guise of helping widows and orphans. As Amity Shlaes says, he was great as a war leader with the added benefit that, having focused exclusively on the war effort, he turned away from government intrusion and even aligned with the previously maligned captains of American industry to fight the war.
Social Security was/is a false promise. That it took a couple generations to reveal the lie doesn't make it less so. Ponzi schemes have a shorter duration because the perp doesn't have the borrowing and money printing power of the federal government. · Sep 23 at 10:19am
Oct '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Huey Long - an economically illiterate demagogue who wished to penalise those earning more than $1 million per year. (Of course that was in 1934 dollars.) Who does that remind you of?
Sep '10
Re: Why Can't We Call The New Deal A Wrong Turn?
Indeed! Only difference is that now we also have the Tea Party, whereas in the 1930s there were a lot more hopey-changey populists. (Every man a king!) Guess I'm saying better to have the fight now than back then.
genferei
Huey Long - an economically illiterate demagogue who wished to penalise those earning more than $1 million per year. (Of course that was in 1934 dollars.) Who does that remind you of? · Sep 23 at 11:38am