What if he Actually Wins?

 

One of the constants of the political coverage this last year has been “Donald Trump cannot win because… ” Anyone who offered a scenario contrary to the cited “because” was self-delusional, a wishful thinker, or just plain stupid. And through it all, Trump just kept advancing, advancing, and advancing right through to the nomination. The conventional wisdom may still hold and he may yet lose in a landslide in November. But what if he does win? What if the conventional wisdom is actually a conventional delusion?

There will be plenty of theories to be sure. It was a year of historically horrible candidates. The vote was too fractured. Too many of this or that faction stayed home. Too many of this or that faction showed up. But like the financial commercials say, past results should never be seen as a guarantee of future returns.

In all honesty, I don’t think anyone knows. Circumstances constantly change. There were newspaper-only elections, radio elections, television elections and, now, internet and social media elections. In 1896, the winning candidate never left his house. In my lifetime alone, three major “that’ll never happen” presidents happened: We elected a Catholic, a divorced man, and a non-white.

The truth is that every election is unique and the circumstances that align the electorate are hard to repeat or predict. I don’t know what kind of president Donald Trump would make, I only know that if he gets a chance to show it, there’s a lot of people who make their living professing to know how to win elections are going to look unconventionally stupid.

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  1. Big Green Inactive
    Big Green
    @BigGreen

    Doug Kimball:

    Trump has said, enough with the victimhood. Our skin is not as thin as cellophane. If we act like a bunch of toddlers, obsessed with fairness, coddled by bureaucrats who claim a deistic ability to kiss everything and make it better, things will not get better. We have to take it all back.

    No, he’s not a constitutionalist. He’s not an originalist. But he does know what is wrong and he is a man of action. We’ve been limping toward a left-wing nirvana which is as unaffordable as it is unattainable. Obama’s transformation has been as polarizing as it has been debilitating and expensive. Trump will reverse much of that terrible trend.

    Excuse me?  Trumps entire campaign is prefaced on a notion of victimhood.  Now his victims are different than others victims but he portrays them as victims nonetheless.

    • #121
  2. Keith Preston Member
    Keith Preston
    @

    Austin Murrey:

    Is noble defeat more worthy than ignoble victory? It depends on the stakes.

    The stakes are control of a weaponized Supreme Court, which is being used in a way the Constitution was never designed to empower: overcoming the will of the people’s elected representatives to assault American culture with the Left’s agenda.  Everything else is fixable four or eight years from now.  The Left’s takeover of the court would be fixed for generations.

    • #122
  3. Keith SF Inactive
    Keith SF
    @KeithSF

    TKC1101:

    James Lileks: Good points. I’m still unconvinced that ceding the Left’s arguments and adopting their pet projects allows us to make a contrary argument down the road, but we’ll see.

    A valid concern that I share. But, you take the citizenry you have, get their votes and move forward the best you can. If you produce general prosperity, you are one of the greats. If you do not, you are a crook, a liar and a jerk. Also, never follow the guy who is credited for the prosperity. You cannot win.

    Thanks to both of you — I go back and forth thinking about this myself.

    This has been the key component of the left’s success, hasn’t it? Incremental changes, taking the long view, chipping away where they can, but conceding what they need to at the time (thinking back to when liberals feigned offense at being compared to socialists/communists, or the lip service they paid to things like regulatory burdens, the working class, and American exceptionalism; “don’t ask don’t tell”; “abortion should be safe legal and rare” etc etc) …and gradually they work to change the culture. If conservatism “happens”, this is the way it would have to happen.

    I think the wide swath of the (mostly apolitical) population who view Reagan favorably, do so because of the economic growth and prosperity , and not because of any clearly articulated ideology.

    • #123
  4. Keith Preston Member
    Keith Preston
    @

    Eric Hines:

    Charles Mark:Meanwhile, outside the USA, where the mere mention of the man’s name induces a mix of horror and mockery and no-one dares to speak well of him, there will be chaos: kind of like 2000 on steroids.

    A perfectly sound reason to elect him. Since when do we allow foreign disdain to control our actions?

    Eric Hines

    Yes, the same people who gave Obama the Nobel Peace Prize and melted down when Reagan didn’t kiss Gorbachev’s backside at Reykjavik.  Use Europe as a reverse indicator…except for the former Eastern bloc who knows the real face of socialism and a reconstituting “Soviet Union.”

    • #124
  5. Viator Inactive
    Viator
    @Viator

    Misthiocracy: Are monsters allowed to vote?

    I have it on good authority the Cookie Monster is a Hillary supporter.

    • #125
  6. TKC1101 Member
    TKC1101
    @

    Misthiocracy: Are monsters allowed to vote?

    Yes, but they have to be certified deplorable

    • #126
  7. Casey Inactive
    Casey
    @Casey

    cdor: How is that a change?

    More government vs less government is the battle we’ve waged for decades. Who is in charge of more government is entirely dismissive of the less government argument.

    They’ve been there for a long time. Conservatives have been resisting. This year it seems conservatives are willing to concede defeat on the possibility of less government. Times change. Move on.

    • #127
  8. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Viator: I have it on good authority the Cookie Monster is a Hillary supporter.

    Depends on government grants? Check

    Demands free cookie? Check

    Blue Lives Matter? Check

    • #128
  9. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    Matt Bartle:

    Mr. Conservative: God give us a wise President.

    God hasn’t been much help in this regard.

    Sometimes he says, no.  Then we pray Psalm 109:8.

    • #129
  10. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    James Lileks:

    James Lileks

    Paul Dougherty:If Trump wins:

    1. Gloat confusedly
    2. Settle NRO hash.

    Haven’t we been told that Trump’s liberal instincts will be kept in check by Actual Conservatives, and he’ll be guided and nudged where needed? Or are his critics to be sent to Hash Settling Seminars to instructed on how to behave in the future?

    Guys like Paul can gloat if he wants to, but I don’t know about relegating Nevertrumpers to hash. I, for one, if Trump wins, will say, “I voted against the guy (voted for McMullen) but now that Trump’s president, I’ll do everything I can do to make sure he is encouraged, pushed, cajoled, threatened, whatever, to govern as the limited-government, freedom-loving, free-trading, constitutional conservative we need instead of the big government ‘strong man’ he really is.”  You might say, “But you  give up any right to influence a candidate you voted against.”  Oh really?  Didn’t conservatives who voted against Clinton push him nonetheless to reform welfare and actually make him utter the words, “the era of big government is over?”   Since I don’t think Trump really  has any core values he’ll stick to when push comes to shove (or maybe it’s shove’s turn to make the first move), it’s worth a short.  Here I stand.

    • #130
  11. goldwaterwoman Thatcher
    goldwaterwoman
    @goldwaterwoman

    DocJay: One more reason to hide if Hillary wins. I won’t feel like chatting with those who pushed her corpse across the finish line and 90% of the staff here is rooting for her for a variety of reasons.

    Right on.

    • #131
  12. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative

    Mr. Conservative:

    Matt Bartle:

    Mr. Conservative: God give us a wise President.

    God hasn’t been much help in this regard.

    Sometimes he says, no. Then we pray Psalm 109:8.  ;)

    • #132
  13. Mr. Conservative Inactive
    Mr. Conservative
    @mrconservative
    • #133
  14. Paul Dougherty Member
    Paul Dougherty
    @PaulDougherty

    Mr. Conservative:

    James Lileks:

    James Lileks

    Paul Dougherty:If Trump wins:

    1. Gloat confusedly
    2. Settle NRO hash.

    Haven’t we been told that Trump’s liberal instincts will be kept in check by Actual Conservatives, and he’ll be guided and nudged where needed? Or are his critics to be sent to Hash Settling Seminars to instructed on how to behave in the future?

    Guys like Paul can gloat if he wants to…

    I shall not want to, without regard to “winner”. I consider myself a #quietlyandashamedlyTrumper.

    I was trying (and failing) to give a snide synopsis of what I see as happening should Trump win, based on the previous tenor of comments.

    • #134
  15. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    The Question:

    Doug Kimball:

    Trump spoke. Unchecked immigration is killing us for all the obvious reasons. Free trade has become a ticket to fleece us.

    AHH! This makes sense! I don’t agree with it, but it makes sense. You are generally conservative, but also not a supporter of absolute free trade. In that case it makes complete sense to be enthusiastic about Trump, who wants some kind of protectionist policies, but is also sort of maybe conservative.. It would also give a rationale for supporting Trump over Cruz, Rubio, etc., since they

    … snip

    That makes far more sense than any other argument I’ve heard for enthusiastic Trump support.

    Unfortunately, for me, this is a reason to not vote for Trump. I’ve watched Milton Friedman explain why he supports free trade and I think he makes the stronger case. I may still vote for Trump, but there is cost to doing so, if it means surrendering on a core issue like free trade. Given that I really don’t know what Trump is going to do, I may estimate that cost as too high. I’ll keep assessing this until November.

    Fwiw, in Trump’s ‘The Art of the Deal’ he says his negotiating tactic is to demand four times what you want, and then compromise. I think that is the way to see his approach to immigration reform and trade agreements. That plus the fact he is picking conservative advisors implies he won’t adopt destructive policies.

    • #135
  16. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    Viator:

    Misthiocracy: Are monsters allowed to vote?

    I have it on good authority the Cookie Monster is a Hillary supporter.

    He isn’t “the” cookie monster. His surname is Monster and his given name is Cookie. You racist.

    • #136
  17. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    TKC1101:

    Misthiocracy: Are monsters allowed to vote?

    Yes, but they have to be certified deplorable

    How would you know if they don’t have to show ID at the polls?

    • #137
  18. Viator Inactive
    Viator
    @Viator

    • #138
  19. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Franz Drumlin: If Trump wins, and it looking increasingly likely that he will, there is a good chance the Republicans will retain a majority in Congress and even perhaps the Senate.

    Two things:

    1. Don’t fool yourself.  The race isn’t actually tightening that much.  It’s not “looking increasingly likely” that Trump will win.
    2. Republican Senate candidates are actually in good shape, independent of Trump’s buffoonery.
    • #139
  20. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    skipsul:Casey points out that Trump in part signifies a shift to “Our guys over their guys” – this is true, but it will take a strong leader to seize the power NRO deplores and then turn that power against the entire edifice. Waving the Constitution won’t fix this.

    This worked so well for the Romans, whose Republic was rescued by a strong man.  Who was that again?  Marius? Sulla? Pompey? Caesar? Augustus?  Right, it was Augustus who saved the Republic.

    And went down in history as the first Emperor.

    • #140
  21. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    TKC1101: Stop the regulation, adjust the tax code and step back for the explosion of new business activity will explode out of the gate.

    And you think the guy who donated to Hillary Clinton and just proposed paid maternity leave is the guy to do that?

    • #141
  22. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    MJBubba: Hillary will keep Team Obama intact.

    I don’t think that’s accurate.

    If anything Hillary would clean house and pack it with Clintonistas.  Not the same thing as the Obama people.

    • #142
  23. Viator Inactive
    Viator
    @Viator

    Fred Cole:Two things:

    1. Don’t fool yourself. The race isn’t actually tightening that much. It’s not “looking increasingly likely” that Trump will win.
    2. Republican Senate candidates are actually in good shape, independent of Trump’s buffoonery.

    Sure, and you’re an expert of what? Bravo Siena?

    • #143
  24. Viator Inactive
    Viator
    @Viator

    Fred Cole: Don’t fool yourself. The race isn’t actually tightening that much. It’s not “looking increasingly likely” that Trump will win.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    From the very conservative RCP which included polls with cobwebs hanging off them.

    • #144
  25. Viator Inactive
    Viator
    @Viator

    Fred Cole: Republican Senate candidates are actually in good shape, independent of Trump’s buffoonery.

    Trump’s effect down-ballot, Warner said is likely helping the GOP. According to the Ohio sec. of state’s office, more than 1 million Ohio voters have gone from unaffiliated, or Democratic, to Republican.

    Rob Portman, for instance.

    Yes, you read that right, ONE MILLION OHIO VOTERS.

    • #145
  26. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Viator:

    Fred Cole: Don’t fool yourself. The race isn’t actually tightening that much. It’s not “looking increasingly likely” that Trump will win.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    From the very conservative RCP which included polls with cobwebs hanging off them.

    Right.  But at no point has the average put Trump ahead.  And luckily for us, we don’t elect a president through a national plebiscite.

    • #146
  27. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Viator: According to the Ohio sec. of state’s office, more than 1 million Ohio voters have gone from unaffiliated, or Democratic, to Republican.

    I’d be very interested in reading more about that.  Could you provide a link?

    • #147
  28. TKC1101 Member
    TKC1101
    @

    Fred Cole: And you think the guy who donated to Hillary Clinton and just proposed paid maternity leave is the guy to do that?

    Yes. Got a problem with that? Just like the guy who supported FDR and did amnesty cut it loose the last time.

    The US economy, once the leash is off will astound you.

    • #148
  29. Austin Murrey Inactive
    Austin Murrey
    @AustinMurrey

    Viator:

    Fred Cole: Republican Senate candidates are actually in good shape, independent of Trump’s buffoonery.

    Trump’s effect down-ballot, Warner said is likely helping the GOP. According to the Ohio sec. of state’s office, more than 1 million Ohio voters have gone from unaffiliated, or Democratic, to Republican.

    Rob Portman, for instance.

    Yes, you read that right, ONE MILLION OHIO VOTERS.

    That seems high. Doesn’t that seem high?

    Granted something’s spooking the high profile Dem’s. Well, I think Axelrod just hates her, but even Cokie Roberts is talking about replacing her.

    • #149
  30. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    TKC1101: Yes. Got a problem with that?

    My problem is that I don’t think it’s connected to reality.

    • #150
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