The One About Socialism

Well, this is a first for this fully operational podcast: we tackle Socialism, the newly hip, but always old school form of government. To cover both sides of the argument, we call on Washington Post columnist Elizabeth Bruenig and longtime Ricochet member (and Professor of Political Science at Skidmore) Flagg Taylor. Also, Manfort, Cohen, and all that jazz, and finally, what’s the most accurate gauge of a robust economy? Easy, it’s the state of Lileks Oil  in Fargo, North Dakota.  Spoiler alert: business is great.

Music from this week’s episode: Talkin’ bout A Revolution by Tracy Chapman

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  1. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    In a Pickle (View Comment):

    Thank you! Thank you for bringing a guest with a different opinion. I would love to see more of that.

    You will!

    • #31
  2. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Rest assured, everyone — Liz will be back on soon: 

     

    https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/1032485267964350464

    • #32
  3. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Don Tillman (View Comment):

    Next question I’d have…

    Elizabeth Bruenig states that the wealthy can have an undue influence on an election. For the moment, let’s take her at her word.

    And seconds later, she praises and promotes unions.

    There’s a serious contradiction here. Unions contribute substantially more money to political campaigns than individuals do. And it’s other people’s money, so there’s little in the way of limitations.

    Open Secrets: Top Contributors to Federal Candidates, Parties, and Outside Groups, 2016

    When an individual contributes to a political campaign, it’s their own money, their own voice, with an incentive to spend as little as possible to get the job done.

    How does one square this up?

    Rich people – bad.

    Unions – good.

     

    • #33
  4. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Don Tillman (View Comment):

    Next question I’d have…

    Elizabeth Bruenig states that the wealthy can have an undue influence on an election. For the moment, let’s take her at her word.

    And seconds later, she praises and promotes unions.

    There’s a serious contradiction here. Unions contribute substantially more money to political campaigns than individuals do. And it’s other people’s money, so there’s little in the way of limitations.

    Open Secrets: Top Contributors to Federal Candidates, Parties, and Outside Groups, 2016

    When an individual contributes to a political campaign, it’s their own money, their own voice, with an incentive to spend as little as possible to get the job done.

    How does one square this up?

    Its another example of their double standards, 99% of union donations go to democrats and lefty causes. They seem to think that the donations come from the middle class members not the over-paid executives, who are directly re-paying political debts with union dues. IF the unions where democratically directing their donations as the membership wanted, that would be a different thing.

    What about the undue influence of George Soros, Tom Steyer?

    What about public institutions and agencies? I think that any charity that takes money from any level government as well as the public should not make political contributions. IF they claim that contributions are bribes, why arent Planned Parenthood’s donations a problem?

    • #34
  5. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    I’m not sure whether to be grateful that you guys got Ms. Bruening to admit that her socialism is as much if not more about tearing down the rich as it is about helping the poor, or frightened that she didn’t seem to have any shame about admitting it.

    I caught that too. It’s a standard line from conservatives that the Left wants to make everyone equal by cutting down the rich, not by lifting the poor. I didn’t think that anyone actually said that, so it was surprising to hear her admit it.

    • #35
  6. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Don Tillman (View Comment):

    Next question I’d have…

    Elizabeth Bruenig states that the wealthy can have an undue influence on an election. For the moment, let’s take her at her word.

    And seconds later, she praises and promotes unions.

    There’s a serious contradiction here. Unions contribute substantially more money to political campaigns than individuals do. And it’s other people’s money, so there’s little in the way of limitations.

    Open Secrets: Top Contributors to Federal Candidates, Parties, and Outside Groups, 2016

    When an individual contributes to a political campaign, it’s their own money, their own voice, with an incentive to spend as little as possible to get the job done.

    How does one square this up?

    C’mon, Don. Logic is a tool of the soulless Patriarchy to keep the people down.

    Thank you for having Flagg on afterward.He took some of the edge off.

    • #36
  7. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Percival (View Comment):

    Don Tillman (View Comment):

    Next question I’d have…

    Elizabeth Bruenig states that the wealthy can have an undue influence on an election. For the moment, let’s take her at her word.

    And seconds later, she praises and promotes unions.

    There’s a serious contradiction here. Unions contribute substantially more money to political campaigns than individuals do. And it’s other people’s money, so there’s little in the way of limitations.

    Open Secrets: Top Contributors to Federal Candidates, Parties, and Outside Groups, 2016

    When an individual contributes to a political campaign, it’s their own money, their own voice, with an incentive to spend as little as possible to get the job done.

    How does one square this up?

    C’mon, Don. Logic is a tool of the soulless Patriarchy to keep the people down.

    Thank you for having Flagg on afterward.He took some of the edge off.

    Props to Peter Robinson. It was his idea.

    • #37
  8. Emerson Inactive
    Emerson
    @CandE

    Good pitch, Rob.  You got me to re-up.

    • #38
  9. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Emerson (View Comment):

    Good pitch, Rob. You got me to re-up.

    It is worth it. You aren’t just paying for content. You are paying to add good content. 

    • #39
  10. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Hey Rob,

    Do you actually believe that Christ is an embodiment of the Logos? I always thought that you were an agonistic. It’s fine if you want to change your mind but I would like to know what is going on.

    • #40
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rest assured, everyone — Liz will be back on soon:

    That’s fine with me, but I hope the guys will do a better job of showing why she’s wrong.

    Foolish, even.

    I couldn’t describe her as “thoughtful,” either.  We should try socialism because… why, it has a proven record of success?  That’s no more “thoughtful” than we should try socialism because the moon is made of green cheese.  (That comparison just fits the situation far too often.)

    • #41
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Don Tillman (View Comment):

    Next question I’d have…

    Elizabeth Bruenig states that the wealthy can have an undue influence on an election. For the moment, let’s take her at her word.

    And seconds later, she praises and promotes unions.

    There’s a serious contradiction here. Unions contribute substantially more money to political campaigns than individuals do. And it’s other people’s money, so there’s little in the way of limitations.

    Open Secrets: Top Contributors to Federal Candidates, Parties, and Outside Groups, 2016

    When an individual contributes to a political campaign, it’s their own money, their own voice, with an incentive to spend as little as possible to get the job done.

    How does one square this up?

    Rich people – bad.

    Unions – good.

     

    Not just “Unions.”  RICH Unions.

    • #42
  13. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Don Tillman (View Comment):

    Next question I’d have…

    Elizabeth Bruenig states that the wealthy can have an undue influence on an election. For the moment, let’s take her at her word.

    And seconds later, she praises and promotes unions.

    There’s a serious contradiction here. Unions contribute substantially more money to political campaigns than individuals do. And it’s other people’s money, so there’s little in the way of limitations.

    Open Secrets: Top Contributors to Federal Candidates, Parties, and Outside Groups, 2016

    When an individual contributes to a political campaign, it’s their own money, their own voice, with an incentive to spend as little as possible to get the job done.

    How does one square this up?

    Rich people – bad.

    Unions – good.

     

    Not just “Unions.” RICH Unions.

    She seems to have bought into the narrative that the unions represent the collective voices of their members, and therefore it’s different. The fact that right to work laws inevitably result in a mass exodus away from the unions, thus indicating that there are a lot of people who would prefer to speak for themselves, doesn’t seem to have registered.

    • #43
  14. filmklassik Inactive
    filmklassik
    @filmklassik

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    I’m not sure whether to be grateful that you guys got Ms. Bruening to admit that her socialism is as much if not more about tearing down the rich as it is about helping the poor, or frightened that she didn’t seem to have any shame about admitting it.

    Yeah, the rise of the Politics of Resentment is truly alarming.  So, too, is the way people can be so blithe and casual about expressing it.  They see nothing wrong with the notion that, “”If I have a lot and you have a lot more, well, you have too much!”

    • #44
  15. filmklassik Inactive
    filmklassik
    @filmklassik

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    I’m not sure whether to be grateful that you guys got Ms. Bruening to admit that her socialism is as much if not more about tearing down the rich as it is about helping the poor, or frightened that she didn’t seem to have any shame about admitting it.

    I caught that too. It’s a standard line from conservatives that the Left wants to make everyone equal by cutting down the rich, not by lifting the poor. I didn’t think that anyone actually said that, so it was surprising to hear her admit it.

    Yeah, many Leftists — buoyed by their numbers — have discarded any pretense of economic fairness. Why bother pretending, right?  So the mask has fallen and they have gone full Robespierre.  

    • #45
  16. Theodoric of Freiberg Inactive
    Theodoric of Freiberg
    @TheodoricofFreiberg

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rest assured, everyone — Liz will be back on soon:

    If so, might I suggest having Ricochet members post questions for her based on her statements from this podcast?

    • #46
  17. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rest assured, everyone — Liz will be back on soon:

    That’s fine with me, but I hope the guys will do a better job of showing why she’s wrong.

    Foolish, even.

    I couldn’t describe her as “thoughtful,” either. We should try socialism because… why, it has a proven record of success? That’s no more “thoughtful” than we should try socialism because the moon is made of green cheese. (That comparison just fits the situation far too often.)

    Just for you, we’re going to have her back on to discuss why a Socialist federal government will never finance a manned mission to Mars. 

    • #47
  18. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Theodoric of Freiberg (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rest assured, everyone — Liz will be back on soon:

    If so, might I suggest having Ricochet members post questions for her based on her statements from this podcast?

    We will absolutely do this. 

    • #48
  19. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Hey Rob,

    I always thought that you were an agonistic. It’s fine if you want to change your mind by I would like to know what is going on.

    (emphasis added)

    I don’t know what an agonistic is, but it sounds like someone who should want to change his mind.

    (Ha)

    • #49
  20. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    She seems to have bought into the narrative that the unions represent the collective voices of their members, and therefore it’s different. The fact that right to work laws inevitably result in a mass exodus away from the unions, thus indicating that there are a lot of people who would prefer to speak for themselves, doesn’t seem to have registered.

    Given that the public teachers’ unions have ruined primary and high school education in this country, I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that so many “learned” people buy the concept that the collective voice is better than a collection of individual voices.

    Should Jaime Escalante, the calculus teacher of Stand and Deliver fame, receive the same pay as a second grade teacher of equal seniority?  (Ask the socialist “which one could be replaced more easily – the 2d grade teacher or the calculus teacher?”  Better yet, ask a second grade teacher if she could teach calculus.)  No doubt the National Education Association and American Federated Teachers unions believe that the pay should be based on seniority, not on any measure of competence or specialized skill.

    • #50
  21. Don Tillman Member
    Don Tillman
    @DonTillman

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rest assured, everyone — Liz will be back on soon:

    That’s fine with me, but I hope the guys will do a better job of showing why she’s wrong.

    Foolish, even.

    No no no… not good… showing someone to be foolish is not helpful.

    (Well, in certain situations, for comedic value…)

    This is an opportunity to learn from an insider.  Ask questions.  Get the lowdown.  Draw out information about the mechanisms that make the system work.  Correct misconceptions.

    The best defense against socialism is to learn more about it.

    • #51
  22. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    @roblong credits the Algore campaign with not using the Bush campaign book that was sent to them, and says that shows they were honorable. But that was actually a case of misbegotten property. They didn’t seem to have any problem using other “dirt” such as the DUI, just days before the election. How honorable was that?

    The DUI was a public record.

    • #52
  23. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    @roblong credits the Algore campaign with not using the Bush campaign book that was sent to them, and says that shows they were honorable. But that was actually a case of misbegotten property. They didn’t seem to have any problem using other “dirt” such as the DUI, just days before the election. How honorable was that?

    The DUI was a public record.

    A public record that was decades old, yet wasn’t reported until the weekend before the election.

    Nothing to see here folks, move along.  Public record.

    • #53
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rest assured, everyone — Liz will be back on soon:

    That’s fine with me, but I hope the guys will do a better job of showing why she’s wrong.

    Foolish, even.

    I couldn’t describe her as “thoughtful,” either. We should try socialism because… why, it has a proven record of success? That’s no more “thoughtful” than we should try socialism because the moon is made of green cheese. (That comparison just fits the situation far too often.)

    Just for you, we’re going to have her back on to discuss why a Socialist federal government will never finance a manned mission to Mars.

    They have to go to Mars in order to tax all the rich people there.

    • #54
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Don Tillman (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rest assured, everyone — Liz will be back on soon:

    That’s fine with me, but I hope the guys will do a better job of showing why she’s wrong.

    Foolish, even.

    No no no… not good… showing someone to be foolish is not helpful.

    (Well, in certain situations, for comedic value…)

    This is an opportunity to learn from an insider. Ask questions. Get the lowdown. Draw out information about the mechanisms that make the system work. Correct misconceptions.

    The best defense against socialism is to learn more about it.

    By all means, draw out all that information.  THEN show why it’s claptrap.  Because if you just leave it hanging, it could seem valid/respectable.

    • #55
  26. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Don Tillman (View Comment):

    [cont’d]

    She starts describing socialism’s popularity with millennials, Bernie Sanders, and the Democratic Socialists of America.

    Okay, good. The DSA’s web site is here: http://www.dsausa.org Check it out.

    The DSA is, literally, a Marxist organization. Olde school.

    They even sponsor the Marxism Today Podcast, which I listen to for entertainment value.

    So that muddies things up even more. And then she relates that to the Nordic countries, which doesn’t make sense.

     

    I’m convinced that the bulk of the Democrat party just throws stuff on the wall to see what sticks and they don’t care if it leads to Nordic-style welfare capitalism (which is a pipe dream for the USA for a bunch of reasons) or the full DSA website. 

     

    • #56
  27. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):
    What about the undue influence of George Soros, Tom Steyer?

    DEEP POCKETS: Ocasio-Cortez’s primary win backed by Young Turks, George Soros

     

    • #57
  28. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    IMO, her husband, Matt Bruenig, says some pretty out there stuff. These guys want the CPI at 4% yesterday to effect the People’s Revolution and they are the Designated Mandarins in Charge.

    If you want to know why people want socialism and Trump, I cannot recommend enough to get a Real Vision pass and watch the “Exchange” series. It’s 90 total minutes. When the government is this centralized and the Fed has been nothing but loose since 1996 or 1971, depending on how you want to look at it, this is all very predictable. Also check out Doug Nolan, Harold Malmgren, and David Stockman.

     

     

     

     

    • #58
  29. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):
    What about the undue influence of George Soros, Tom Steyer?

    DEEP POCKETS: Ocasio-Cortez’s primary win backed by Young Turks, George Soros

     

    You guys should interview this guy to see what he thinks of this discussion. Richard Weinstein. He found the Gruber tapes. Great twitter feed.

    • #59
  30. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Here is the other explanation why people want socialism and Trump.

     

    Different article

    As such, my thesis is that centralized power in an unaccountable and exceedingly corrupt Washington D.C. is holding hundreds of millions of Americans back and preventing experimentation, self-government and responsibility on a more local level. Why do we accept a political world that makes corruption so easy and systemic in which tens of millions of people feels powerless and miserable every four to eight years? Why does power and politics have to be so binary and centralized? The answer is, it doesn’t.

    The #1 enemies of the GOP and libertarians is centralization, central bank discretion, and the Frankfurt School.

    A million zillion podcasts and no Austrian economists-ever. You can go through three dozen of them before you get to the scary ones that the RINO’s ridicule. Hell even Thomas Sowell wants to wipe out the Fed. He told that to Peter Robinson on video.

     

    • #60
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