To Trump or Not To Trump

 

That is the question.

My father spent three years in the North Atlantic, as he put it, “successfully avoiding the German Navy.” That’s about as detailed as he ever got about his wartime experiences. If you’re of a certain age, you knew dozens of men like that. Some felt like they didn’t do enough, others felt like they did too much. 

For the latter, some carried great burdens. Some killed with unrelenting hatred and cruelty. They did things that had to be done but hated themselves for it and agonized over whether or not the things that they did could be forgiven. But the life of the nation and all they held dear was at stake.

Amusingly, some have raised their presidential vote this year to the same level of moralistic angst. It’s not. Voting for The Donald is not nearly on par with a US Marine immolating his enemy with a flame thrower or sending a U-boat crew to an agonizing death on the ocean floor. 

The preeners are justifying their actions by telling themselves “It’s only four years. We survived eight years of Obama, we’ll survive four years of Hillary.” What could happen in four years? (Well, the totality of America’s involvement in WWII, for one. The Civil War, for another. How about the years 1965-68?)

First off, while there is still a United States, have we not been fundamentally transformed these last eight years? Will not the two to three SCOTUS appointments Hillary is sure to make in the next four years cement that? Indeed, will that not blast out whatever defenses the Constitution still has? 

The truth is, Trump is the only thing that stands between you and the return to the White House of the most corrupt power couple this country has ever seen. Trump is the only thing that stands between you and a string of court decisions that could gut the First, Second, Fourth and Fifth Amendments. Trump is the only thing that stands between you and a gutted Armed Forces of the United States.

Those men of the Greatest Generation did their deeds in anonymity a half a world away from their families. Luckily for you, the voting booth provides the same privilege. Tell everybody you didn’t vote at the top of the ticket, slap an Evan McMullin sticker on your vehicle, do whatever makes you feel good around your friends. Just do what needs to be done and keep it to yourself.

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  1. TKC1101 Member
    TKC1101
    @

    Thank you EJ, for a perspective that has been overlooked.

    • #1
  2. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    I suppose that keeping “it” to oneself is a reasonable option under many circumstances.  However, affirmatively telling people that I didn’t vote the top of the ticket (when I did) is not.  One should cast a ballot with a sense of pride, not as something to be hidden.  If, come election day, I’m too ashamed to own up to voting for Trump, then I won’t.

    • #2
  3. EJHill Member
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Hoyacon: One should cast a ballot with a sense of pride, not as something to be hidden.

    Then why did the Founding Father decide it should be secret? Maybe we should just have a show of hands next time.

    • #3
  4. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    EJHill:

    Hoyacon: One should cast a ballot with a sense of pride, not as something to be hidden.

    Then why did the Founding Father decide it should be secret? Maybe we should just have a show of hands next time.

    Because Hillary would saw of third worlders arms and hold up the stumps….duh.

    Nice article.

    • #4
  5. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    EJHill:

    Hoyacon: One should cast a ballot with a sense of pride, not as something to be hidden.

    Then why did the Founding Father decide it should be secret? Maybe we should just have a show of hands next time.

    I suspect that you know this. There’s a difference between giving people the option of voting in secret and suggesting that they lie about their choice if they’re less than good with it.  As I said, I can see a “none of your business” response, but dissembling isn’t on my menu.

    • #5
  6. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    EJHill:Amusingly, some have raised their presidential vote this year to the same level of moralistic angst…

    …Trump is the only thing that stands between you and the return to the White House of the most corrupt power couple this country has ever seen. Trump is the only thing that stands between you and a string of court decisions that could gut the First, Second, Fourth and Fifth Amendments. Trump is the only thing that stands between you and a gutted Armed Forces of the United States.

    Yes. Moral angst.

    On the other hand, maybe it’s OK to not be angsty either way, either about not-voting for Trump, or about voting for him.

    • #6
  7. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    This is a bit of a lark – how to tell whether you’ve got angst, weltschmerz, or ennui.

    • #7
  8. EJHill Member
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake: On the other hand, maybe it’s OK to not be angsty either way, either about not-voting for Trump, or about voting for him.

    Sure. If you want the same things Hillary wants, there’s no angst at all. You may hate the fact that every non-Trump vote is a vote FOR Hillary, but that doesn’t change the reality of it. If you want Heller gutted, if you want Citizens United gutted, if you want a more intrusive controlling government and the sanctification of thought crime in the United States, then you do what you want to do.

    • #8
  9. Casey Inactive
    Casey
    @Casey

    EJHill: The truth is, Trump is the only thing that stands between you and the return to the White House of the most corrupt power couple this country has ever seen. Trump is the only thing that stands between you and a string of court decisions that could gut the First, Second, Fourth and Fifth Amendments. Trump is the only thing that stands between you and a gutted Armed Forces of the United States.

    And then what?

    • #9
  10. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    What a ridiculous argument. One does not need to put this on the level of serivice during wartime in order to choose not to vote for The Donald.

    Thanks for the smear of calling us moral preeners though – very persuasive.

    • #10
  11. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:This is a bit of a lark – how to tell whether you’ve got angst, weltschmerz, or ennui.

    I generally like to order a pint of angst lager, a plate of weltschmerz, and a side of ennui with mayo.

    • #11
  12. EJHill Member
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Jamie Lockett: Thanks for the smear of calling us moral preeners though – very persuasive.

    Sorry. But this still a binary choice. Either him or her. If you’re not voting for him, you’re facilitating her. And all the excuses are just that – excuses. I didn’t say I was going to do hand flips into the voting booth myself.

    Yes, there’s a lot of moral preening going on. It’s only a “smear” if you’re not actually doing it.

    • #12
  13. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    EJHill:

    Jamie Lockett: Thanks for the smear of calling us moral preeners though – very persuasive.

    Sorry. But this still a binary choice. Either him or her. If you’re not voting for him, you’re facilitating her. And all the excuses are just that – excuses. I didn’t say I was going to do hand flips into the voting booth myself.

    Yes, there’s a lot of moral preening going on. It’s only a “smear” if you’re not actually doing it.

    I’m voting 3rd party. Republicans don’t own my vote and thus the harm is equal to both candidates. No moral preening – just sober assessment of the relative merits of the top three candidates.

    • #13
  14. Bill Nelson Inactive
    Bill Nelson
    @BillNelson

    “I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live up to what light I have.”  ― Abraham Lincoln

    • #14
  15. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    I’m starting to think that every one of the 9 million articles like this are to assuage the guilty consciences of the authors who know they are voting for a huckster and a fraud. Guilt is less burdensome when it’s shared.

    • #15
  16. EJHill Member
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Jamie Lockett: I’m voting 3rd party… and thus the harm is equal to both candidates.

    No. That’s simply not true. Third party votes always benefit the winner. And the winner is always a Republican or a Democrat. Always.

    All of those people who voted for Perot in ’92 gave the world Bill Clinton. All of those people who voted for Nader in 2000 got George W. Bush.

    • #16
  17. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    EJHill:

    Jamie Lockett: I’m voting 3rd party… and thus the harm is equal to both candidates.

    No. That’s simply not true. Third party votes always benefit the winner. And the winner is always a Republican or a Democrat. Always.

    All of those people who voted for Perot in ’92 gave the world Bill Clinton. All of those people who voted for Nader in 2000 got George W. Bush.

    That logic presumes that all the votes to the 3rd party candidate would have gone to the loser had they not been in the race. Poppycock.

    • #17
  18. Casey Inactive
    Casey
    @Casey

    EJHill: But this still a binary choice.

    No, it isn’t.

    • #18
  19. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Jamie Lockett:I’m starting to think that every one of the 9 million articles like this are to assuage the guilty consciences of the authors who know they are voting for a huckster and a fraud. Guilt is less burdensome when it’s shared.

    Thanks for the smear of calling us guilty of voting for a fraud though – very persuasive.

    • #19
  20. Casey Inactive
    Casey
    @Casey

    EJHill: And the winner is always a Republican or a Democrat. Always.

    Do you believe in limited government?

    • #20
  21. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Columbo:

    Jamie Lockett:I’m starting to think that every one of the 9 million articles like this are to assuage the guilty consciences of the authors who know they are voting for a huckster and a fraud. Guilt is less burdensome when it’s shared.

    Thanks for the smear of calling us guilty of voting for a fraud though – very persuasive.

    Hey if the editors want to let it pass I guess I’ll join the game.

    • #21
  22. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    EJHill: The preeners are justifying their actions by telling themselves “It’s only four years. We survived eight years of Obama, we’ll survive four years of Hillary.” What could happen in four years? (Well, the totality of America’s involvement in WWII, for one. The Civil War, for another. How about the years 1965-68?)

    Some thoughts:

    1. We’re all spitballing about what the effect of Hillary or Trump will be.  One year out, either way, and I expect some new arguments and recriminations here.
    2. Preening is a dangerous word, and in this context rather inappropriate.  Further, the NeverTrump person could just as well accuse us of preening in this case.  To wit:

    • (preen oneself) congratulate or pride oneself: he’s busy preening himself on acquiring such a pretty girlfriend.

    It’s reading in a self congratulatory intent into others, either for not voting for Trump, or in voting for Trump.

    • #22
  23. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    EJHill:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake: On the other hand, maybe it’s OK to not be angsty either way, either about not-voting for Trump, or about voting for him.

    Sure. If you want the same things Hillary wants, there’s no angst at all.

    Wanting what Hillary wants is not the only way to be non-angsty.  It just isn’t, and no amount of claiming it is makes it so.

    I understand folks in swing states being angstier than those not in swing states. But it was you, not I, saying moralistic angst about the election is unnecessary:

    EJHill: some have raised their presidential vote this year to the same level of moralistic angst. It’s not.

    If moralistic angst is unnecessary, it cuts both ways.

    I live in one of those states so far from swing it’s not even on the playground. I know not everyone has the luxury of the astronomically tiny odds of one in a billion of their vote being decisive. Those in swing states face odds more like one in ten million – that’s (lessee… 12-7 = 5…) a hundred thou times as big! Even so, one in ten million…

    It’s most likely I’ll “vote dirty” myself – try to undermine the Left tactically. But we’re all in this together. Failing to vote Trump isn’t the moral equivalent of deserting your country during wartime, either.

    I can understand people being quite morally angsty about their own vote, even preening about voting Trump or not voting Trump (I’ve certainly seen some pro-Trump preening). I don’t begrudge people their moral angst – especially when it’s their own vote, not others’, causing them the angst. But I would agree with you perhaps better than you agree with yourself that such angst is not strictly necessary.

    • #23
  24. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    When Jesus runs for President, we’ll have a perfect President.  Now we must settle for the least imperfect.  Tough choice, but Trump wins hands down.  Those presumably on the right who support Hillary are not of the right.  They can vote for whom they please, but that doesn’t make them right.

    • #24
  25. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Jamie Lockett:I’m starting to think that every one of the 9 million articles like this are to assuage the guilty consciences of the authors who know they are voting for a huckster and a fraud. Guilt is less burdensome when it’s shared.

    Again, reading intent into others’ thoughts.

    • #25
  26. EJHill Member
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Jamie Lockett: I’m starting to think that every one of the 9 million articles like this are to assuage the guilty consciences of the authors who know they are voting for a huckster and a fraud. Guilt is less burdensome when it’s shared.

    I have my choice of the huckster and fraud who will be forced to lead a coalition of Establishment Republicans and Insurgents or the Second Coming of Imelda Marcos. You vote to facilitate Imelda and assuage your own conscience by telling yourself that you hurt her with your 3rd Party vote.

    When she takes the oath of office, exactly how much did you hurt her? How many things will she not try to do because a 3rd party candidate got your vote?

    • #26
  27. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    EJHill: When she takes the oath of office, exactly how much did you hurt her?

    And how does a vote for Trump hurt her, either, if that vote doesn’t cause electoral college votes to go to Trump rather than Hillary?

    • #27
  28. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Jamie Lockett:

    Columbo:

    Jamie Lockett:I’m starting to think that every one of the 9 million articles like this are to assuage the guilty consciences of the authors who know they are voting for a huckster and a fraud. Guilt is less burdensome when it’s shared.

    Thanks for the smear of calling us guilty of voting for a fraud though – very persuasive.

    Hey if the editors want to let it pass I guess I’ll join the game.

    This isn’t a life or death shooting match here, escalation does not help.

    • #28
  29. EJHill Member
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake: And how does a vote for Trump hurt her, either, if that vote doesn’t cause electoral college votes to go to Trump rather than Hillary?

    There’s both agony and ecstasy to the Electoral College, isn’t there?

    I’ve always, always lived in a swing state. That makes you look at things with more urgency, I guess.

    • #29
  30. Casey Inactive
    Casey
    @Casey

    Doug Kimball: Those presumably on the right who support Hillary are not of the right. They can vote for whom they please, but that doesn’t make them right.

    First, those on the right who support Hillary are very few so that’s a major qualification.

    Secondly, one who votes Trump is not voting in a rightward direction. So we can also say that those presumably on the right who support Trump are not of the right.

    • #30
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