Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
Channeling the Left
The following are leftist arguments that the next Republican presidential candidate will face and have to refute. What advice and rhetorical response would you give him and his Vice Presidential candidate?
Politics are easy for us Democrats. While Republicans rail about out-of-control government, we Democrats are trying to make things better for the average voter. We’re doing this while sending the bill not to you, but to them. You know … the ones who’ve tilted the tables of commerce in their favor. Democrats are trying to make this right. The Republicans have made an unholy alliance with the table tippers. Democrats are the good guys in this fight. We make no apologies for our efforts. Principles, shimsiples: this is about making things better for you.
Conservatives rant about the Founding Fathers and free markets and so on, we say ignore them. Boring! If conservatives do not have their fingers in the pockets of the rich, then they are either the rich themselves or merely their ignorant pawns.
Poor conservatives. At least when they had William F Buckley and Milton Friedman, they had folks who sounded intelligent. Who do they have now? Rush Limbaugh? He has his radio show but, for all his money, he may as well live under a bridge. Bill O’Reilly? His day job is just the promotion of poorly titled, hastily written books. Sean Hannity? He’s just one more conservative toy monkey; he winds himself up twice daily, then claps his hands and screeches the same things over and over. And he’s one of the successful ones.
Republicans rail about deficits. We talk about promises made to seniors, trust funds and caring for children and the disabled. Conservatives drone on about the public debt. We talk about the full faith and credit of the United States of America. Republicans speak of deporting illegal immigrants and stopping the entry of refugees. We talk about compassion and America’s heritage as a nation of immigrants. Republicans want a nation bristling with bellicosity. We want an America committed to peace.
Do you want to live in a country where bitter old white guys can demand you bear a child conceived in a momentary lapse in judgement, in a country where guns are easier to obtain than birth control pills, in a country where two people commit to a lifetime of love and fidelity but are denied a marriage license, in a country where a young girl can expect to earn only $0.79 for every dollar her brother earns, in a country where your color is more indicative of future success (even your lifespan) than any other factor, in a country that denies promises made the most vulnerable and the elderly?
These are the fights that animate us Democrats. Until we fix these things, all else is secondary. Why side with the Republicans against your own interests and sense of decency?
Published in General
Simple answer — almost everything you are saying are based on lies so no need to respond to fake questions.
Also, even if I answered these questions it wouldn’t make a bit of difference to you because you are not driven by facts and reason and these exercises are faux debates to keep us diverted from the power play that is going on behind the scenes.
We must refute these arguments even if the premises are false. Zero in on the false arguments and provide an approach to refutation.
Doug, you’ve just demonstrated why it’s a lot easier being a leftist than a conservative when it’s time to build a constituency.
What’s easier to sell: free stuff or responsibility?
You’re exactly right that the eventual nominee better have this stuff figured out. We’ve already seen the preview in the Democrat debates.
Yeah. I watched it last night, well the first few minutes until I felt my brain start to melt. I know it’s frustrating for conservatives like Larry above, but ignorante lefties regurgitate these arguments like mother gulls feeding their young. And the young voters eat it up like so much half digested fish. We need some go to responses for all these Left wing arguments and suppositions. It’s dogma to them, so we’d better have quick, hard facts to repel the falsity. Exclamations of “Socialist” just gets them riled up.
No, not for the person asking these questions. Perhaps it’s a good exercise to others who are listening in on the conversation but one-on-one it’s a waste of time. This is not a debate — it’s a power struggle. We need to focus on things that will move that struggle into terrain we can control. These questions and their premises are on their turf and really these items are used to fend us off (as in a power struggle) and are not designed to be figured out.
Doug—nice job! You sound exactly like my liberal friends—well done!
IMHO, Republicans should hammer the optimistic, “we’re going to have some fun and we’re all gonna flourish!” message, not the “immigrants are all rapists and Muslims are devil spawn” message, but that might mean dumping Trump. Which (IMHO, again) I think would be a good idea.
Go with Rubio. He’s cheerful, reasonably conservative and he doesn’t have a silly hairdo.
Have you noticed that Hillary and the Donald both use the same color hair dye?
Since the richest in the country seem to be liberal democrats. Why not give the top 500 richest what they keep saying they want and take their money? Why are we fighting them to save their money?
Just keep saying “Did you get to keep your doctor? Did your premiums go up? Did you get to keep your policy?” over and over.
Attack the delivery. Free stuff is junk that does not work.
The Dems are wide open on the free stuff this year. Use it.
It’s very easy to make promises you can’t keep. Whether they knew what they were doing or not, Democrats made promises to the American people that simply can’t be met; even if we tax the rich into the ground, there still won’t be enough money. Democrats think they can keep the game going just long enough to keep taking your money and stay one step ahead of bankruptcy. That’s also what Bernie Madoff did.
That said, it’s essential that we meet our promises to those who’ve come to rely on them and who have no other choice. That’ll be expensive, but it’s the right thing to do and it’s also what we’ve proposed doing in all of our proposals in the last few years. If the Democrats hadn’t been so busy trying to scare people, we might have been able to do something about it.
Wait … are we talking about Bernie Sanders here? Oh, never mind. ;)
Do you think it’s necessary for New Yorkers and Texans to be forced to adopt the same rules for everything? Do you think it helps Americans find jobs when we simultaneously increase the costs of their labor in the legal market and encourage illegal immigrants to come here and work under-the-table? Do you think it’s a good idea to take choice away from kids fresh out of college by not allowing them to purchase catastrophic insurance? Do you think the biggest problem facing the country is a lack of red tape, that it’s just too easy to start a business and make an honest living? Do you think we help women more by forcing everyone — even nuns! — to pay for prescription contraceptives when there’s really no good reason for oral contraceptives to be prescription anyway? And do you think it’s okay for organizations like Planned Parenthood to use access to contraceptives as a hostage so they can continue to try to up-sell aborted baby’s bodies … without the mother’s permission?
Who is going to have more influence on big government, on the regulatory apparatus, on tax design, ordinary folks or the most powerful and richest? Why do big corporate management, and the super wealthy such as Soros, Buffett, et al support big government policies? Name them. Tie them to Hillary. Keep pointing out what the Clintons are now worth. Who designed Obamacare, Dodd Frank, and the implementing regulations, name them. Don’t go after entitlements or welfare, just promise to move welfare, education et al to the States where the “beneficiaries can have more influence”. SS can be privatized, and with Cruz’s and some other tax proposal we do not have to cut SS for people on or near becoming eligible. Point out crony capitalist deals, waste and fraud. Liberal progressive, redistribution is a fraud, poor income growth and worsening distribution should not be denied, but put at the feet of progressive government where it belongs. Don’t accept their words or address their arguments, address their behavior. Their words and arguments are empty frauds, their behavior is unambiguous.
Here’s an actual paraphrased discussion with a liberal-leaning, highly successful, extremely well-off friend the other night. Fortunately, I was backed up by another friend from the libertarian end.
Me: Have you heard about this crazy law in the state of Washington compelling organizations like the Y to let anyone claiming to be any gender into the locker room/restroom of the opposite sex? <reads text provided by The King Prawn>
Him: Oh, I’m sure the trans-sexuals who will take advantage of such a law are a vanishingly small number. It’s not all that disruptive.
Me: Maybe, but why do we need a law, then? Why don’t we trust the people to work this out among themselves. I would be uncomfortable, especially with children present, but I wouldn’t go all body-snatcher pointing and screaming.
But, what about the perverts? You’re not even allowed to ask what the hell a guy is doing in the lady’s locker room. You can be sued for using the wrong pronoun! This is oppressive, not to mention a clear violation of the First Amendment.
It’s a clear indication of the breakdown in social trust and the progressive impulse to regulate everything.
Libertarian: I agree. Wouldn’t the socially healthy response to this situation be the trans-sexual choosing, out of deference to others, to use the “family” restroom to shower and change?
The liberal was mostly quiet and thoughtful. Gave me hope.
The deeper we go into this insanity, the more important it is to be passionately eloquent, but speak matter-of-factly. And, yes, be as positive and compassionate as possible.
I’m outraged by what Felony Clinton says about black incarceration rates. I’m outraged because of what her policies do to black people! I imagine myself being a law-abiding black woman in downtown Chicago in fear for my life, my kids’ lives, and my property. Felony Clinton is going to fix “racial profiling” by the police?
What she’s going to do, effectively, is reduce policing in my neighborhood by insisting that only black cops patrol black neighborhoods (there’s a way to build the web of social trust and bring the races together). She’s going to raise the minimum wage making it impossible for my teenage son to get an entry level job. She’s going to “get guns off the streets” by disarming law abiding citizens, leaving us to the “mercy” of well-armed criminals and thugs. She’s going to prop up the public sector unions, forcing me to send my kids to the teacher pension and welfare programs known as “public schools.”
Oh, but, when my boyfriend doesn’t want to take responsibility for the child he’s produced, she’ll make you pay to kill it. There’s that.
Felony Clinton is a black American’s worst enemy. As Jason Riley would say, please stop helping us!
Please, progressives, just stop it.
Why did this make me think of the witch sketch in Monty Python’s Holy Grail?
I had a liberal tell me Sat night that all the problems with ACA are the fault of the Republicans.
First of all, Wall Street and the rich in general support the left far more than the right. Many more have donated to Hillary’s campaign, than to Republicans. (I think this is true!) But when they, especially Bernie Sanders, say they will confiscate most of the wealth of the rich to redistribute to the poor and middle class, do you really think this will pay for all they want to do? Of course not. All the wealth of all the rich people in the country would not be a drop in the comprehensive ocean of their spending agenda. The real wealth is in taxing the bulk of the population at high levels–that means you.
And of course, without the wealthy to invest and create jobs, you’d have a harder time finding a job, your kids wouldn’t be able to find one (thanks also to the higher minimum wage) and your wages would go down while your taxes would go up. Welcome to Bernie’s or Hillary’s America! As one owner of a small business told me once, we need the rich. That’s why the rest of us can make a living!
Doesn’t it seem like the full faith and credit of the United States depends on tackling the national debt? Have you ever tried spending up your credit card balance on and on without paying it down? How has that worked out for you? Do you think it is responsible or fair to those who will have to deal with the debt–your children–without reforming the entitlements that feed it? We must keep promises to seniors, but SS was enacted when people lived on average only into their 60’s. We now need to continue SS for those who are near retirement and always planned on it, yet reform it for younger people by allowing them to put part of their money into their own accounts, where they are likely to do far better than with an entitlement that is politically controlled.
If you believe in choice, then shouldn’t nuns be able to choose not to support something they believe is morally wrong? Do you think all of us should be forced to support an organization like Planned Parenthood that sells baby parts like so much meat? Many Dems advocate abortion until the moment of birth. They have become the party of abortion. Do you believe that when a woman wants her child it is a baby, but if she doesn’t, it is a “clump of cells”? Do you believe that grown women can’t make the choice to spend a few dollars a month on their own birth control if that is what they want? Why do we all need to facilitate that choice and not other medical choices that people make?
My friend, Democrats are trying to sell you a dream world where stuff magically appears and no one takes responsibility for anything. Republicans are dealing with reality.
Funny story–a lefty friend has been listening to all the debates on both sides, and after the first Dem debate told me that finally there was a substantive debate! I was rather taken aback by this. I don’t listen to Dem debates because I know exactly what they are going to say, and it is all hot air and pie-in-the-sky! I had listened to the GOP debates and found them plenty substantive. Then I realized that to her, substance amounted to “what I think.” True for Dems in general, I’d say.
Just like Detroit.
Done.
A rules come to my mind:
Exactly — well said.
Did you ask the liberal, in your best sincerely curious voice: “How’s that?”
No. I was less than polite. Maybe even boorish. I said, loudly, “Not ONE Republican voted for it! You cannot blame them for the bill it was ALL Democrats!”
He just walked away. The problem is, no one on the left ever thinks they are at fault. Hell, if the moron would listen to me, I could have given them everything they wanted, if what they wanted was expanded health care. That is not what they want. What they want is power over our lives.
His claim was “The Republicans would not let them do what they really wanted” in order to get their votes.
I have been hearing this one a lot. All the issues with Obamacare are actually poison pills that the GOP made the Democrats put into the program. If the GOP was not involved it would be perfect.
Facts do not matter to them.