Of Impeachment and Accountability

 

Never Trump Republicans and their Democratic co-conspirators have another trick up their sleeves. Knowing that they probably do not have the votes to convict and remove the President in the Senate, they are desperately searching for a way to pull it off and they think they’ve found it: A secret vote and/or a generous reading of the two-thirds rule.

Pushed by people like lobbyist Juleanna Glover (formerly of the Bush 43 Administration and Bill Kristol acolyte), Laurence Tribe and former Sen. Jeff Flake, the operating theory is that if Senators were freed from accountability to their voters there would be 30 to 35 Republicans in the Senate ready to vote “yes” on conviction.

The other pipe dream is that the Constitution only demands a two-thirds majority of the Senators present. For every Senator that refuses to attend it brings that two-thirds number lower. But staying away is the same as a yes vote.

Jim Geraghty points out at National Review, “If Trump really is an unconstitutional menace who is abusing the power of the presidency for his personal interests, stopping him ought to be worth losing a Senate seat. And if this action isn’t worth losing a Senate seat over, then it’s hard to see how it is worth removing a president.”

A secret ballot after secret proceedings in the House sounds like a recipe for disaster. How do you think the public would react?

 

 

 

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  1. JamesSalerno Inactive
    JamesSalerno
    @JamesSalerno

    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Not actually true.

    Thomas Jefferson and John Adams had an infamously hot/cold relationship, but the early Jefferson administration was not kind to Adams.

    Nearly every opposing-party president immediately after Andrew Jackson despised him.

    Teddy Roosevelt explained how he would repeal and/or improve on all of McKinley’s policies before McKinley’s corpse was even in the ground.

    FDR never returned a single Herbert Hoover phone call and viewed him as an incompetent joke.

    Eisenhower was referred to as “That Old [redacted]-Hole”  by JFK.

     

    The idea that all former presidents belong to a mutual admiration society is false.

    • #121
  2. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    For better or worse, the 22nd Amendment applies to even Trump.

    I can imagine an exception to the 22nd Amendment due to the Democrat’s attempted coup and overthrow of the 2016 election with a sham impeachment.


    Please name one member of the Supreme Court who would not vote to remove Trump as President after two terms if Trump were elected in 2020 and 2024. Please name one Judge of the Circuit Court of Appeals. Please name one Federal District Judge. Please name one Federal Magistrate. Just one.

    The answer is that not one of the 1,000 or so Federal Judges would agree with such an absurd argument.

    • #122
  3. DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Fascinating . . .

    • #123
  4. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    JamesSalerno (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Not actually true.

    Thomas Jefferson and John Adams had an infamously hot/cold relationship, but the early Jefferson administration was not kind to Adams.

    Nearly every opposing-party president immediately after Andrew Jackson despised him.

    Teddy Roosevelt explained how he would repeal and/or improve on all of McKinley’s policies before McKinley’s corpse was even in the ground.

    FDR never returned a single Herbert Hoover phone call and viewed him as an incompetent joke.

    Eisenhower was referred to as “That Old [redacted]-Hole” by JFK.

     

    The idea that all former presidents belong to a mutual admiration society is false.

    Yeah, except for the Bush’s and the Clintons. Notably.

    • #124
  5. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    ”…the operating theory is that if Senators were freed from accountability to their voters there would be 30 to 35 Republicans in the Senate ready to vote “yes” on conviction.”

    Boy, wouldn’t politicians ( Republicans especially?) love not to be accountable to their voters! What a great plan!

    Seriously, what would then transpire is constituents would demand to know how their Senator voted and they would have to either tell the truth, lie or refuse to answer.
    Not a good look and every Senator would get a strong primary opponent and/or lose in the general election anyway. Really stupid.

    Anyway, it’s just not gonna happen.

    • #125
  6. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    As of today, if Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg or Klobuchar are nominated, I would vote for them. This would be my first vote for a Democrat for President in 48 years. This would be a vote out of sadness, not glee.

    This would be tactical voting. By withholding my vote for Trump, I would hope that the Republican Party return to being the Party of Reagan. By withholding my vote for Sanders or Warren, I would hope that the Democratic Party would learn a lesson and not nominate socialists in the future.

    You can rationalize your vote however you may want, but please don’t tell us for whom you’re voting and continue to use the pat-myself-on-the-back moniker “country-first Republican.”  A vote for any of those mentioned is neither “country-first” nor “Republican.”  And I’m rather sure Ronaldus Maximus would agree.

    • #126
  7. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    As of today, if Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg or Klobuchar are nominated, I would vote for them. This would be my first vote for a Democrat for President in 48 years. This would be a vote out of sadness, not glee.

    This would be tactical voting. By withholding my vote for Trump, I would hope that the Republican Party return to being the Party of Reagan. By withholding my vote for Sanders or Warren, I would hope that the Democratic Party would learn a lesson and not nominate socialists in the future.

    You can rationalize your vote however you may want, but please don’t tell us for whom you’re voting and continue to use the pat-myself-on-the-back moniker “country-first Republican.” A vote for any of those mentioned is neither “country-first” nor “Republican.” And I’m rather sure Ronaldus Maximus would agree.

    I was asked a direct question and I answered it.  

    • #127
  8. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    “This would be tactical voting. By withholding my vote for Trump, I would hope that the Republican Party return to being the Party of Reagan. By withholding my vote for Sanders or Warren, I would hope that the Democratic Party would learn a lesson and not nominate socialists in the future.”

    Wow. Some of us have a rather outsized opinion on the message our vote sends.

    By not asking Scarlet Johansson out on a date, I would hope she learns not to appear in any more crappy movies about marriage. I was appalled!

    • #128
  9. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Franco (View Comment):

    “This would be tactical voting. By withholding my vote for Trump, I would hope that the Republican Party return to being the Party of Reagan. By withholding my vote for Sanders or Warren, I would hope that the Democratic Party would learn a lesson and not nominate socialists in the future.”

    Wow. Some of us have a rather outsized opinion on the message our vote sends.

    By not asking Scarlet Johansson out on a date, I would hope she learns not to appear in any more crappy movies about marriage. I was appalled!

    How did you know?

    • #129
  10. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    EJ

    I am not sure what would happen. The issue is that the Elites keep pushing and pushing. They want their power forever and ever amen. 

    I believe, at some point they will push too far and it will all come apart. Maybe this will be it. Maybe not, but if they keep getting wins, the bridge too far will happen.

    • #130
  11. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    As of today, if Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg or Klobuchar are nominated, I would vote for them. This would be my first vote for a Democrat for President in 48 years. This would be a vote out of sadness, not glee.

    This would be tactical voting. By withholding my vote for Trump, I would hope that the Republican Party return to being the Party of Reagan. By withholding my vote for Sanders or Warren, I would hope that the Democratic Party would learn a lesson and not nominate socialists in the future.

    You can rationalize your vote however you may want, but please don’t tell us for whom you’re voting and continue to use the pat-myself-on-the-back moniker “country-first Republican.” A vote for any of those mentioned is neither “country-first” nor “Republican.” And I’m rather sure Ronaldus Maximus would agree.

    I was asked a direct question and I answered it.

    As my response indicated, my issue is not so much with your answer but with its inconsistency.

    • #131
  12. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    That would have been a miscarriage of justice. And let’s not forget those who wanted Reagan locked up.

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Fact check: False.  

    • #132
  13. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    That would have been a miscarriage of justice. And let’s not forget those who wanted Reagan locked up.

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Fact check: False.

    When does that stop him?

    I understand there are some that look at Gary as the nerd kid, and think us “cool kids” just pick on him. I find that funny. 

    • #133
  14. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Enough damage has been done in secret in the last two to three years. Civil disobedience is a hobby when pursued by small groups, if it is practiced by 60 million voters it will be breathtaking.

    Except if it is 60million voters who officially were for Trump, I suspect that the number is even bigger than that. The more I realize about how much control the Dems have in Illinois, NY, and Calif with regards to flipping the election results, the more I am convinced that on Election Night, Nov 2016, Trump might well have had exactly as much of the popular vote as Ms Clinton had.

    • #134
  15. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    JamesSalerno (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Here is a column from The Bulwark which discuss that the House could impeach Trump, but decline to immediately transmit its impeachment to the Senate. https://thebulwark.com/impeach-and-withhold/

    So the argument of the dems is that it’s important to impeach him, but not important enough to send it to the Senate?

    That’ll work.

    I will quote from the column itself:

    “The key here is that there is no requirement that the House immediately send the articles of impeachment to the Senate. This is Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s final card to play.

    “So here is a modest proposal: the House should (1) vote to impeach on Wednesday, and (2) withhold sending any articles which pass to the Senate unless and until a majority of senators commit to holding an open and fair trial in accordance with the Constitution.

    “Speaker Pelosi could highlight Trump’s continued cover up and obstruction, while also noting that his abuse of power is a crime in progress.

    “She could also explicitly link the referral to Chuck Schumer’s demands for key documents and the testimony of senior White House officials, including acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney; Mulvaney’s senior adviser Robert Blair; and former national security adviser John Bolton.SNIP trial. But the comments from the Senate majority leader and chairman of the Judiciary Committee risk making a mockery of that process.

    They may think this is a joke. We don’t. We think it is deadly serious and we think the American people deserve to know the facts and the truth.

    We will refer these articles of impeachment to the Senate when a majority of its members commit to a full and fair trial that includes an honest attempt to look at the evidence, hear witnesses, and examine documents that have so far been withheld from Congress and the American people.”

    Gotcha. So basically, Kavanaugh all over again. Drag the process out as long as possible so that the Democrats have a ready-made pre-tainted 2020 election.

    The crucial thing about the Nov 2020 election is the electronic voting machinery. If that method of voting is not carefully watched over, the Dems will have no incentive to not add lots of votes from the R side of the cast ballots over to the D side.

    Meanwhile, Trump is not at all  hated  in the manner that people like Pelosi and the more radical Dems believe.

    Here is a facebook entry featuring a video of people on the hippy dippy beaches of So California, who are annoyed that Trump is perhaps about to be impeached. http://www.facebook.com/turningpointusa/videos/944954565883943/

    And another ricochet writer expresses a similar finding:

    http://ricochet.com/705696/focus-group-signals-bad-news-for-2020-democrats/

    • #135
  16. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Franco (View Comment):

    “This would be tactical voting. By withholding my vote for Trump, I would hope that the Republican Party return to being the Party of Reagan. By withholding my vote for Sanders or Warren, I would hope that the Democratic Party would learn a lesson and not nominate socialists in the future.”

    Wow. Some of us have a rather outsized opinion on the message our vote sends.

    By not asking Scarlet Johansson out on a date, I would hope she learns not to appear in any more crappy movies about marriage. I was appalled!

    So could you be the one to suggest to my spouse that his “not dating Scarlet” in his fantasies is not affecting her? He’s been making dinner  for me a lot lately, so I don’t wanna be the one to rock the boat.

    • #136
  17. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    That would have been a miscarriage of justice. And let’s not forget those who wanted Reagan locked up.

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Fact check: False.

    So what Presidents called for the prosecution of their rivals?  

    Obama?  Nope.  

    W?  Nope.  

    Clinton?  Nope.  

    H.W. or Reagan?  Nope.  

    Carter?  Nope.  

    Ford or Nixon?  Nope.  

    LBJ or JFK?  Nope.  

    Ike?  Nope.  

    Truman or FDR?  Nope.  

    Hoover, Coolidge, or Harding?  Nope.

    Wilson?  Nope.

    Taft, TR or McKinley?  Nope?  

    Anybody in the 1800’s?  Nope.

    Anybody in the 1700’s?  Nope.

    But I recall Trump urging chants of “Lock Her Up!”  And during a debate I remember Trump threatening Hillary with jail.

    Yes, people said nasty stuff about their rivals.  But only Trump talked about prosecuting his rival.  

    Fact check.  True.

    • #137
  18. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    That would have been a miscarriage of justice. And let’s not forget those who wanted Reagan locked up.

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Fact check: False.

    When does that stop him?

    I understand there are some that look at Gary as the nerd kid, and think us “cool kids” just pick on him. I find that funny.

    See comment #137.  Fact check: True.  Trump is unique in calling for the prosecution of his rival.

    • #138
  19. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    That would have been a miscarriage of justice. And let’s not forget those who wanted Reagan locked up.

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Fact check: False.

    So what Presidents called for the prosecution of their rivals?

    Obama? Nope.

    W? Nope.

    Clinton? Nope.

    H.W. or Reagan? Nope.

    Carter? Nope.

    Ford or Nixon? Nope.

    LBJ or JFK? Nope.

    Ike? Nope.

    Truman or FDR? Nope.

    Hoover, Coolidge, or Harding? Nope.

    Wilson? Nope.

    Taft, TR or McKinley? Nope?

    Anybody in the 1800’s? Nope.

    Anybody in the 1700’s? Nope.

    But I recall Trump urging chants of “Lock Her Up!” And during a debate I remember Trump threatening Hillary with jail.

    Yes, people said nasty stuff about their rivals. But only Trump talked about prosecuting his rival.

    Fact check. True.

    Hillary Clinton is not a former president.

    • #139
  20. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Enough damage has been done in secret in the last two to three years. Civil disobedience is a hobby when pursued by small groups, if it is practiced by 60 million voters it will be breathtaking.

    Except if it is 60million voters who officially were for Trump, I suspect that the number is even bigger than that. The more I realize about how much control the Dems have in Illinois, NY, and Calif with regards to flipping the election results, the more I am convinced that on Election Night, Nov 2016, Trump might well have had exactly as much of the popular vote as Ms Clinton had.

    Proof?  Evidence?  Why haven’t there been exposes?  

    • #140
  21. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    That would have been a miscarriage of justice. And let’s not forget those who wanted Reagan locked up.

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Fact check: False.

    So what Presidents called for the prosecution of their rivals?

    Obama? Nope.

    W? Nope.

    Clinton? Nope.

    H.W. or Reagan? Nope.

    Carter? Nope.

    Ford or Nixon? Nope.

    LBJ or JFK? Nope.

    Ike? Nope.

    Truman or FDR? Nope.

    Hoover, Coolidge, or Harding? Nope.

    Wilson? Nope.

    Taft, TR or McKinley? Nope?

    Anybody in the 1800’s? Nope.

    Anybody in the 1700’s? Nope.

    But I recall Trump urging chants of “Lock Her Up!” And during a debate I remember Trump threatening Hillary with jail.

    Yes, people said nasty stuff about their rivals. But only Trump talked about prosecuting his rival.

    Fact check. True.

    The fact that she deserved to be prosecuted and locked up is somewhat relevant to this discussion. It’s not like every single President on your list had a rival who was as guilty of malfeasance as HRC.

    • #141
  22. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    JamesSalerno (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Here is a column from The Bulwark which discuss that the House could impeach Trump, but decline to immediately transmit its impeachment to the Senate. https://thebulwark.com/impeach-and-withhold/

    So the argument of the dems is that it’s important to impeach him, but not important enough to send it to the Senate?

    That’ll work.

    I will quote from the column itself:

    “The key here is that there is no requirement that the House immediately send the articles of impeachment to the Senate. This is Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s final card to play.

    “So here is a modest proposal: the House should (1) vote to impeach on Wednesday, and (2) withhold sending any articles which pass to the Senate unless and until a majority of senators commit to holding an open and fair trial in accordance with the Constitution.

    “Speaker Pelosi could highlight Trump’s continued cover up and obstruction, while also noting that his abuse of power is a crime in progress.

    “She could also explicitly link the referral to Chuck Schumer’s demands for key documents and the testimony of senior White House officials, including acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney; Mulvaney’s senior adviser Robert Blair; and former national security adviser John Bolton.SNIP trial. But the comments from the Senate majority leader and chairman of the Judiciary Committee risk making a mockery of that process.

    They may think this is a joke. We don’t. We think it is deadly serious and we think the American people deserve to know the facts and the truth.

    We will refer these articles of impeachment to the Senate when a majority of its members commit to a full and fair trial that includes an honest attempt to look at the evidence, hear witnesses, and examine documents that have so far been withheld from Congress and the American people.”

    Gotcha. So basically, Kavanaugh all over again. Drag the process out as long as possible so that the Democrats have a ready-made pre-tainted 2020 election.

    The crucial thing about the Nov 2020 election is the electronic voting machinery. If that method of voting is not carefully watched over, the Dems will have no incentive to not add lots of votes from the R side of the cast ballots over to the D side.

    i agree with you.  No electronic ballots.  There must always be a paper trail.

    • #142
  23. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    That would have been a miscarriage of justice. And let’s not forget those who wanted Reagan locked up.

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Fact check: False.

    So what Presidents called for the prosecution of their rivals?

    Obama? Nope.

    W? Nope.

    Clinton? Nope.

    H.W. or Reagan? Nope.

    Carter? Nope.

    Ford or Nixon? Nope.

    LBJ or JFK? Nope.

    Ike? Nope.

    Truman or FDR? Nope.

    Hoover, Coolidge, or Harding? Nope.

    Wilson? Nope.

    Taft, TR or McKinley? Nope?

    Anybody in the 1800’s? Nope.

    Anybody in the 1700’s? Nope.

    But I recall Trump urging chants of “Lock Her Up!” And during a debate I remember Trump threatening Hillary with jail.

    Yes, people said nasty stuff about their rivals. But only Trump talked about prosecuting his rival.

    Fact check. True.

    Hillary Clinton is not a former president.

    Correct.  She was Trump’s rival.  

    And Trump has loudly brayed that Obama spied upon him.

     

    • #143
  24. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    That would have been a miscarriage of justice. And let’s not forget those who wanted Reagan locked up.

    Until Trump, Presidents and Senators were magnanimous to former Presidents.

    Fact check: False.

    So what Presidents called for the prosecution of their rivals?

    Obama? Nope.

    W? Nope.

    Clinton? Nope.

    H.W. or Reagan? Nope.

    Carter? Nope.

    Ford or Nixon? Nope.

    LBJ or JFK? Nope.

    Ike? Nope.

    Truman or FDR? Nope.

    Hoover, Coolidge, or Harding? Nope.

    Wilson? Nope.

    Taft, TR or McKinley? Nope?

    Anybody in the 1800’s? Nope.

    Anybody in the 1700’s? Nope.

    But I recall Trump urging chants of “Lock Her Up!” And during a debate I remember Trump threatening Hillary with jail.

    Yes, people said nasty stuff about their rivals. But only Trump talked about prosecuting his rival.

    Fact check. True.

    The fact that she deserved to be prosecuted and locked up is somewhat relevant to this discussion. It’s not like every single President on your list had a rival who was as guilty of malfeasance as HRC.

    Will you grant me that the prior 44 Presidents didn’t threaten to prosecute their rivals.  Will you grant me that Trump reveled in the “Lock Her Up” chants at his rallies and threatened to prosecute her in a debate?

    • #144
  25. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    And Trump has loudly brayed that Obama spied upon him.

     

    And the fact that the Obama administration did in fact spy on him is apparently immaterial in your world.

    • #145
  26. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    And Trump has loudly brayed that Obama spied upon him.

     

    And the fact that the Obama administration did in fact spy on him is apparently immaterial in your world.

    Evidence.  Proof.  Not just wild words.

    • #146
  27. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    And Trump has loudly brayed that Obama spied upon him.

     

    And the fact that the Obama administration did in fact spy on him is apparently immaterial in your world.

    Evidence. Proof. Not just wild words.

    Horowitz, Barr, Durham.

    • #147
  28. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    And Trump has loudly brayed that Obama spied upon him.

     

    And the fact that the Obama administration did in fact spy on him is apparently immaterial in your world.

    Evidence. Proof. Not just wild words.

    Horowitz, Barr, Durham.

    I believe that Horowitz is directly to the contrary, that he found sloppiness, but not predication.  

    Batt?  Barr lied about Mueller’s findings.  I happen to remember John Mitchell going to jail.  

    Durham?  No results yet.  Let me know when we have some proof.

    • #148
  29. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    And Trump has loudly brayed that Obama spied upon him.

     

    And the fact that the Obama administration did in fact spy on him is apparently immaterial in your world.

    Evidence. Proof. Not just wild words.

    Horowitz, Barr, Durham.

    I believe that Horowitz is directly to the contrary, that he found sloppiness, but not predication.

    Batt? Barr lied about Mueller’s findings. I happen to remember John Mitchell going to jail.

    Durham? No results yet. Let me know when we have some proof.

    Lie?

    • #149
  30. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    And Trump has loudly brayed that Obama spied upon him.

     

    And the fact that the Obama administration did in fact spy on him is apparently immaterial in your world.

    Evidence. Proof. Not just wild words.

    Horowitz, Barr, Durham.

    I believe that Horowitz is directly to the contrary, that he found sloppiness, but not predication.

    Batt? Barr lied about Mueller’s findings. I happen to remember John Mitchell going to jail.

    Durham? No results yet. Let me know when we have some proof.

    Lie?

    Barr’s summary of Mueller’s findings were wholly misleading.  Yes lied.

    • #150
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