Trump, Conservatism, and Me

 

Greetings, Gentlemen and Gentle Ladies of Ricochet. I’ve been away for a while, I know.

Some of you wrote to the editors to ask what happened to me and whether they should be worried. I was touched by that. You’ve heard, then, that I’ve been working on my book, which is coming along well. But in truth, that’s not the only reason I’ve been away.

About a week ago, the Blue Yeti, who also noticed my absence, sent me a message to ask if I was okay. I was on the verge of writing, “Oh, yes, I’m fine, I’m just working on my book,” but then I stopped myself and thought, “Why not tell him the truth? It is, after all, the truth.” And so I did.

I wrote back and said that I was horrified by Trump. That I’m heartbroken for my country and for what I thought were our ideals, our decency. That it seemed to me the United States was experiencing the political equivalent of a psychotic break, one that has at best turned America into the punchline of a joke, and at worst will end the American experiment altogether. That I was exhausted from arguing about Trump. That I’ve already lived through this presidency once, in Turkey — although it took years for Erdoğan to sound the way Trump already does — and didn’t want to chronicle this story twice in my life.

“I’m outraged by Trump and what’s become of conservatism,” I wrote,

I’m depressed by all of it and sad that I’ve devoted so much of my life to a political ideology that in the end looks as corrupt to me as socialism. This hasn’t seemed like an appropriate thing to share with our entire membership, so I’ve been keeping quiet before saying anything rash — either to our members or to you. But I’ve been feeling this way now for long enough that I probably just need to say it.

So the answer, really, is that I’m not so okay. I’m quite depressed. A large part of it is an overdue reflection about my role in all of this, and a realization that whatever I believe about politics, it has no place in the conservative movement as it now exists.

The Yeti asked if he could call me. We spoke for a while. He started by trying to reassure me that I wasn’t responsible for Donald Trump’s election. This on the one hand is obviously true; but on the other, I’m not sure I can escape the responsibility for this disaster that every American shares, whether or not we supported him or voted for him. We’ve all, together, created — or failed to do enough to prevent — the conditions such that a phenomenon like this might emerge. We all share some part of the blame for allowing our country to descend into nihilism and despair; we all contributed, in some way, to the hollowing out of civic virtue, to the eradication of gravitas and dignity from the public sphere, to the conflation of reality television with reality, to the dumbing-down and the commercialization of everything, to mindless and unprincipled partisanship, to the cultivation of the imperial presidency. We are all all in some part responsible, even if our only contribution was doing too little to prevent it.

And in my case, the contribution was greater. I didn’t mean to, but I did. Ricochet, after all, was part of a gullible media that offered Trump five billion dollars’ worth of free advertising because we assumed his candidacy was just a terrific joke and great for site traffic. “It may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS,” Les Moonves said. I can’t say our editorial approach was more foresighted.

I’m not so full of my own sense of importance as to believe what I write has much influence over anything, but it’s a fact that for the past few decades I’ve supported myself by writing by writing about, and for, politicians and audiences who called themselves conservatives. I believed I shared a set of assumptions and values with conservative readers, or at least, I believed their assumptions and values closer to mine than those of the American left. But it turns out that a substantial cohort of those people did not share my assumptions and values. And a significant number of them are now given over to isolationism, protectionism, nativism, authoritarianism, and sheer craziness. Or outright nihilism. Not to mention opportunism. I want no part of that.

Newt Gingrich, arguing that Margaret Thatcher was the model for the Trump presidency, recently buttressed this claim by allusion to my book about Thatcher, which made me cringe. As I replied in the American Interest, the idea is utterly unserious; that he could assert this is profoundly disturbing for what it says about how little the truth matters to anyone in this perfervid political climate:

I was glad to see my largely forgotten book mentioned, but at the same time I was baffled—because the comparison is ludicrous. Readers who doubt this may consult the online Thatcher archives, which contain every known statement made by Margaret Thatcher between 1945 and 1990; or take my word for it for $12.10 on Amazon. They will find nothing to suggest that Thatcher and Trump are similar in any relevant aspect, be it their political ideals, beliefs, moral values, temperament, style, experience, intellect, competence, decorum, or probity.

What does it mean, then, when a respected senior American politician makes this argument in a respected American newspaper? We’re not, after all, talking about an archaic figure known to us only through a disputed Delphic verse. Margaret Thatcher is very nearly a contemporary. She died in 2013. What she believed is as well known as the formula for the area of a triangle. It would be one thing if the newly Trumpesque Gingrich had in his article renounced Margaret Thatcher and her ideals. That would have been surprising, to be sure, but it would have at least made sense. But this is not what he did: He instead made his actual memories of Thatcher vanish in an act of mental thaumaturgy, and returned from his underground dungeon lair with a shape-changed new version of history.

I told the Blue Yeti all about this, and told him that basically, I’d prefer never to write about politics again. I’m exhausted with it, growingly cynical, and deeply pessimistic. When I finished, I expected him to say that he was sorry to hear it, and to accept my resignation.

But instead, he asked me to write about what I’d just told him, all of it. He said I wasn’t alone in feeling this way, and told me that more people than I realized shared my sentiments. I don’t quite remember what he said next, except that he seemed sincere in thinking I should write about this, and adamant that my point of view was one that should still be represented here. He said that if the Trump presidency implodes, or explodes, someone will have to make the case for classical liberalism and the vigorous virtues, since the conservatives who’ve eagerly hopped in bed with the Id in the White House won’t seem particularly credible after that. He suggested — kindly — that I pull myself together.

I figured he was probably right. “Pull yourself together and get back to work” is, usually, good general advice.

So, are there any more of you out there who are feeling like me? Or will I have to do this single-handedly? I will, I guess, if I have to, but it would be nice to know I’m not alone.

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  1. AndrewGordon Inactive
    AndrewGordon
    @AndrewGordon

    Claire,

    This is my first time posting on Ricochet, but I felt it necessary to say thank you, for what it’s worth. Yours are the first words that I think I can actually use to describe how I feel about politics after this election. For background, I attended Hillsdale College and was somewhat disappointed with the way I saw conservatism represented there (mostly with regard to students, but some of the faculty as well). I feel like true Classical Liberalism has been on the outs for some time now, and my only hope is that President Trump will end up leading to a revival of those principles as a reaction to his untempered and illiberal policies.

    Anyways, that all goes to say that the past year in politics has handed me a very mixed bag of feelings, and I think your post sums it up perfectly. People that feel the way we do need somebody to keep writing and expressing the thoughts we all have, lest everyone give in to the idea that this is the way politics will now be.

    In other words, please keep writing. The market of ideas is the last place in the world where free exchange actually takes place. Don’t bow out when it needs you most.

    • #271
  2. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    I have to admit that I just don’t understand this level of fear and anguish over Trump. I was one of the NeverTrumpers on here and only very reluctantly decided to vote for him in the final days due to Hillary being the embodiment of the actual crimes that so many Trump Derangement Syndrome sufferers are actually so fearful of. I think there is plenty to be wary of in these early stages and that is healthy. There has been plenty to roll our eyes about as well. However, if someone is a conservative and is giving our President anything resembling a sporting chance, they are cautiously optimistic with his performance thus far.

    As for your sabbatical. It has left both us and I suspect you less healthy. Some of the comments towards you in past threads were unacceptable, ignorant, rude and/or flat out embarrassingly stupid. I say this as someone who disagreed with you in principle in some of your posts. You come across as a very sensitive soul. I worried that you had left because of some of those comments. Glad to have you back.

    • #272
  3. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Suspira (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):
    With Obama sleeper cells in the intelligence establishment, Trump has a real dilemma.

    Many years ago I read a book about MI5 and the hunt for moles in the wake of the Philby defection (it’s a well-known work, but I can’t find the title in my aging memory bank). Counter-espionage was called a house of mirrors, and the phrase was apt. I remember thinking there was no way to know the truth of anything inside.

    Current headlines bring back this feeling. I’m afraid I’m approaching the point of not trusting any partisan side, any news outlet, anyone. This is not a good place to be in a republic.

    The Cambridge 5 did a lot of damage and got a lot of people killed.

    Your right, I have been talking about the collapse of social trust for awhile now. I partially blame social media.

    Claire needs to quit for her own sanity.

    How about me, @guruforhire? What do I need to do?

    • #273
  4. JLock Inactive
    JLock
    @CrazyHorse

    Percival (View Comment):

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Suspira (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):
    With Obama sleeper cells in the intelligence establishment, Trump has a real dilemma.

    Many years ago I read a book about MI5 and the hunt for moles in the wake of the Philby defection (it’s a well-known work, but I can’t find the title in my aging memory bank). Counter-espionage was called a house of mirrors, and the phrase was apt. I remember thinking there was no way to know the truth of anything inside.

    Current headlines bring back this feeling. I’m afraid I’m approaching the point of not trusting any partisan side, any news outlet, anyone. This is not a good place to be in a republic.

    The Cambridge 5 did a lot of damage and got a lot of people killed.

    Your right, I have been talking about the collapse of social trust for awhile now. I partially blame social media.

    Claire needs to quit for her own sanity.

    How about me, @guruforhire? What do I need to do?

    Guru, unless you are skilled in jousting — I would choose your words carefully.

    • #274
  5. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    The more I read the reactions of never Trumpers to this election, the more I am convinced that the main objection from the right to Trump as president revolves around ‘character’.
    They are convinced he is a moral reprobate, and as such, consider it humiliating that he could win as a Republican.

    I won’t bother debate the truth or fiction of that opinion.  We each judge the decency of others by our own criteria.  But I will say that due to this fact, and the obvious reality that their opinion is now nearly set in stone, they will never be satisfied nor supportive of any actions he takes, no matter how conservative, how good for the country, or how successful they are.

    Some vote for politicians based upon policy and ideology.  Some vote based upon trust, respect, and honor.  (Most, of course, vote for the lessor of two evils. ).

    Those who are tied up in emotional and moral judgements of character will never accept this man.  He is just too ‘gauche’ for their sensibilities.  They are literally embarrassed to be associated with such a low sort.  So I suspect we will be subjected to the same endless attempt to disassociate themselves with the man for as long as he is in office, despite any accomplishments.

    Fine.  When I vote for a president, I don’t vote for a pope.  But some, I guess, do.

    Good luck ever finding a politician that lives up to that standard.

     

    • #275
  6. JLock Inactive
    JLock
    @CrazyHorse

    PHenry (View Comment):
    The more I read the reactions of never Trumpers to this election, the more I am convinced that the main objection from the right to Trump as president revolves around ‘character’.
    They are convinced he is a moral reprobate, and as such, consider it humiliating that he could win as a Republican.

    I won’t bother debate the truth or fiction of that opinion. We each judge the decency of others by our own criteria. But I will say that due to this fact, and the obvious reality that their opinion is now nearly set in stone, they will never be satisfied nor supportive of any actions he takes, no matter how conservative, how good for the country, or how successful they are.

    Some vote for politicians based upon policy and ideology. Some vote based upon trust, respect, and honor. (Most, of course, vote for the lessor of two evils. ).

    Those who are tied up in emotional and moral judgements of character will never accept this man. He is just too ‘gauche’ for their sensibilities. They are literally embarrassed to be associated with such a low sort

    Dude. Every “nevertrumper” has said: I have to admit he’s done a lot I agree with. And the most scathing criticism is about his impulsive twitter use — which seems to be shared by his staff who have refused to comment on this recent and other outbursts. Their chagrin comes from them wanting PDT to NOT get the boot.

    • #276
  7. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    JLock (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Are we gonna let this guy get away with calling our duly elected president a “grotesque tyrant”

    It’s an internet discussion site. So long as he’s CoC compliant whatcha gunna do?

    What I’m gonna do, I did already!

    Very constrained.

    If you were rallying the villagers with pitchforks I would have been totally in for reasons of base vulgarity.

    Speaking of base vulgarity: from whence came you, before you re-located to the Penile Colony?

    Have you considered Thorazine or perhaps electro shock?

    Wow, where are the  schoolmarms on this one?  Teacher! He’s calling me crazy!

    ( Or, I don’t know: maybe it’s just you missed Zafar’s very funny Penile Colony joke–his, not mine–which showed up on quite a few threads several weeks ago.)

    • #277
  8. JLock Inactive
    JLock
    @CrazyHorse

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Are we gonna let this guy get away with calling our duly elected president a “grotesque tyrant”

    It’s an internet discussion site. So long as he’s CoC compliant whatcha gunna do?

    What I’m gonna do, I did already!

    Very constrained.

    If you were rallying the villagers with pitchforks I would have been totally in for reasons of base vulgarity.

    Speaking of base vulgarity: from whence came you, before you re-located to the Penile Colony?

    Have you considered Thorazine or perhaps electro shock?

    Wow, where are the schoolmarms on this one? Teacher! He’s calling me crazy!

    ( Or, I don’t know: maybe it’s just you missed Zafar’s very funny Penile Colony joke–his, not mine–which showed up on quite a few threads several weeks ago.)

    No I know. He’s an Aussie. My recommendation still stands.

    • #278
  9. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    JLock (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Are we gonna let this guy get away with calling our duly elected president a “grotesque tyrant”

    It’s an internet discussion site. So long as he’s CoC compliant whatcha gunna do?

    What I’m gonna do, I did already!

    Very constrained.

    If you were rallying the villagers with pitchforks I would have been totally in for reasons of base vulgarity.

    Speaking of base vulgarity: from whence came you, before you re-located to the Penile Colony?

    Have you considered Thorazine or perhaps electro shock?

    Wow, where are the schoolmarms on this one? Teacher! He’s calling me crazy!

    ( Or, I don’t know: maybe it’s just you missed Zafar’s very funny Penile Colony joke–his, not mine–which showed up on quite a few threads several weeks ago.)

    No I know. He’s an Aussie. My recommendation still stands.

    Oh, i see!  It’s personal.  In that case:

    I’m sure  I don’t need to spell out my recommendation to you!

    • #279
  10. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    JLock (View Comment):
    Dude. Every “nevertrumper” has said: I have to admit he’s done a lot I agree with.

    Exactly.  Even when they can admit that he has done a lot for conservatives to celebrate, they can’t resist statements like:

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: “I’m outraged by Trump and what’s become of conservatism,”

    He will never achieve enough conservative policies to satisfy the visceral reaction to his ‘low’ nature.  He is just not, and never will be, good enough for their support.  Right?  Because its not, and never was about policy.  It is about judgement of personal character.  And to them, he fails.  The rest is irrelevant.

     

    • #280
  11. JLock Inactive
    JLock
    @CrazyHorse

    Moderator Note:

    Words in all-caps knocked down to italics as per R> house style and CoC.

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Are we gonna let this guy get away with calling our duly elected president a “grotesque tyrant”

    It’s an internet discussion site. So long as he’s CoC compliant whatcha gunna do?

    What I’m gonna do, I did already!

    Very constrained.

    If you were rallying the villagers with pitchforks I would have been totally in for reasons of base vulgarity.

    Speaking of base vulgarity: from whence came you, before you re-located to the Penile Colony?

    Have you considered Thorazine or perhaps electro shock?

    Wow, where are the schoolmarms on this one? Teacher! He’s calling me crazy!

    ( Or, I don’t know: maybe it’s just you missed Zafar’s very funny Penile Colony joke–his, not mine–which showed up on quite a few threads several weeks ago.)

    No I know. He’s an Aussie. My recommendation still stands.

    Oh, i see! It’s personal. In that case:

    I’m sure I don’t need to spell out my recommendation to you!

    You mean other than the other several belligerent comments you’ve written to me? I tell you what — go ahead and take your best shot without capitalizing random words.

    • #281
  12. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    the entire conservative movement has gone isolationist, either because they don’t want to be “blamed” for Iraq (which, in proper time context, was still the right thing to do and was doing fine till about 2010)

    There were two miscalculations in Bush’s Iraq policy. One has been discussed extensively, then the surge began to turn things around, etc.

    The other was domestic politics. I don’t think that Bush or his advisors understood the consequences of the Left’s long march through the U.S.’s institutions including the Democrat Party. 

    But wait: I said Bush’s Iraq policy, didn’t I? Realistic long term planning for Iraq would have included the strong possibility that Bush would be followed by a Democrat – and that whatever had been achieved in Iraq would be systematically dismantled not just by Iran and its proxies but by the next administration: that the Democrat led Congressional decision to abandon South Vietnam was not a fluke but a harbinger of the new reality.

    That reality is that unless a danger to the country is truly existential and worth spending American lives over, the future force projection of the U.S. under Republicans should be limited to brush wars, special operations, and proxy conflicts because whatever is accomplished will have to be in place, mature and autonomous by the time the next Democrat is elected President.

    I fear that “fine until 2010” is a fantasy. Reality is an entrenched domestic enemy.

    • #282
  13. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    PHenry (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):
    Dude. Every “nevertrumper” has said: I have to admit he’s done a lot I agree with.

    Exactly. Even when they can admit that he has done a lot for conservatives to celebrate, they can’t resist statements like:

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: “I’m outraged by Trump and what’s become of conservatism,”

    He will never achieve enough conservative policies to satisfy the visceral reaction to his ‘low’ nature. He is just not, and never will be, good enough for their support. Right? Because its not, and never was about policy. It is about judgement of personal character. And to them, he fails. The rest is irrelevant.

    Yes, and what has he done that’s so “low”?

    Is it that he’s twice divorced?  Can’t be; our country was on  a divorce bender for , like 20 years.  The remarkable thing about Trump’s divorces is he has good relations with both ex-wives and their adult children (even the Divine Reagan didn’t have that) .

    So, is it the pussy remark? Come on gents–and, for that matter, ladies.   Are there really people out there who never heard this kinda talk?  What is with you, America, honey–you used to love an oversexed guy (Kennedy, Clinton, Johnson) .

    @phenry, your analysis is spot on–

    Trump done nothing to merit this no-character ” opprobrium–

    but it’ll never go away.

    • #283
  14. JLock Inactive
    JLock
    @CrazyHorse

    Editor Note:

    Personal attack.

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):
    Dude. Every “nevertrumper” has said: I have to admit he’s done a lot I agree with.

    Exactly. Even when they can admit that he has done a lot for conservatives to celebrate, they can’t resist statements like:

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: “I’m outraged by Trump and what’s become of conservatism,”

    He will never achieve enough conservative policies to satisfy the visceral reaction to his ‘low’ nature. He is just not, and never will be, good enough for their support. Right? Because its not, and never was about policy. It is about judgement of personal character. And to them, he fails. The rest is irrelevant.

    Yes, and what has he done that’s so “low”?

     

    So, is it the pussy remark? Come on gents–and, for that matter, ladies. Are there really people out there who never heard this kinda talk? What is with you, America, honey–you used to love an oversexed guy (Kennedy, Clinton, Johnson) .

    @phenry, your analysis is spot on–

    Trump done nothing to merit this no-character ” opprobrium–

    but it’ll never go away.

    No [redacted] its the starting intergovernmental feuds without having the full breadth of evidence to do so. Don’t you see by doing the right things so brutally wrong he endangers these principles perhaps for generations?

    • #284
  15. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    Yes, and what has he done that’s so “low”?

    As I said, I am not interested in debating that opinion- while I don’t fully agree with it, I understand it.  Certainly, Mr Trump has not shown himself to be a paragon of propriety and class.

    Of course, I don’t know any candidate who has, but I admit that some of his behavior is, well, unprecedented in my lifetime for a candidate.

     

    • #285
  16. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    JLock (View Comment):
    No [redacted] —

    Dude, that is uncalled for.

    • #286
  17. JLock Inactive
    JLock
    @CrazyHorse

    PHenry (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):
    No [redacted] —

    Dude, that is uncalled for.

    Indeed you’re right. I’m unfollowing.

    • #287
  18. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    Uh, he did, didn’t he? Am I wrong that he made a Broadcast for Hanoi? I don’t want to get into this again, except, tell me if that is not true.

    You’re misconstruing this. He didn’t “allow himself to be used as a pawn.”

    The reality of being a prisoner of the North Vietnamese was that everyone talked. Everyone they set out to break broke… or died.

    The problem with John McCain isn’t what he did as a prisoner. It’s what he’s become since.

    • #288
  19. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Guruforhire (View Comment):
    Counter-espionage was called a house of mirrors, and the phrase was apt. I remember thinking there was no way to know the truth of anything inside.

    That was when the moles and sleepers were the agents of a foreign enemy. This is worse.

    • #289
  20. Trinity Waters Member
    Trinity Waters
    @

    JLock (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):
    Dude. Every “nevertrumper” has said: I have to admit he’s done a lot I agree with.

    Exactly. Even when they can admit that he has done a lot for conservatives to celebrate, they can’t resist statements like:

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: “I’m outraged by Trump and what’s become of conservatism,”

    He will never achieve enough conservative policies to satisfy the visceral reaction to his ‘low’ nature. He is just not, and never will be, good enough for their support. Right? Because its not, and never was about policy. It is about judgement of personal character. And to them, he fails. The rest is irrelevant.

    Yes, and what has he done that’s so “low”?

    So, is it the pussy remark? Come on gents–and, for that matter, ladies. Are there really people out there who never heard this kinda talk? What is with you, America, honey–you used to love an oversexed guy (Kennedy, Clinton, Johnson) .

    @phenry, your analysis is spot on–

    Trump done nothing to merit this no-character ” opprobrium–

    but it’ll never go away.

    No [redacted] — its the starting intergovernmental feuds without having the full breadth of evidence to do so. Don’t you see by doing the right things so brutally wrong he endangers these principles perhaps for generations?

    I have a mental list of members names that I simply skip when reading threads.  An addition.

    • #290
  21. Curt North Inactive
    Curt North
    @CurtNorth

    Tenacious D (View Comment):
    The thing that disturbs me about the Trump presidency, more than any actions he’s taken, is this appetite among some of his supporters to purge people from the conservative movement for insufficient loyalty.

    I have to take issue with that statement.  It’s not simply insufficient loyalty when you actually voted for Hillary Clinton, as Clair said she did.  That’s something more.  These are the folks we want “purged”, not folks who voted for Gary Johnson, or did a write-in, or stayed home, but rather those who actively voted for the worst possible outcome, which would have been Hillary as POTUS.  There are a lot of #Nevers that have come to their senses and look on approvingly at what they see happening, but there are many who still to this day sit in shocked denial at what the American people wanted, a giant wrecking ball taken to the Deep State (btw I love that term, it’s perfect).

    I think if you voted for Hillary, you kinda surrender any ownership of the label “conservative”, and in fact you read the election so wrong you might want to look into another line of work.

    • #291
  22. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Percival (View Comment):

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Suspira (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):
    With Obama sleeper cells in the intelligence establishment, Trump has a real dilemma.

    Many years ago I read a book about MI5 and the hunt for moles in the wake of the Philby defection (it’s a well-known work, but I can’t find the title in my aging memory bank). Counter-espionage was called a house of mirrors, and the phrase was apt. I remember thinking there was no way to know the truth of anything inside.

    Current headlines bring back this feeling. I’m afraid I’m approaching the point of not trusting any partisan side, any news outlet, anyone. This is not a good place to be in a republic.

    The Cambridge 5 did a lot of damage and got a lot of people killed.

    Your right, I have been talking about the collapse of social trust for awhile now. I partially blame social media.

    Claire needs to quit for her own sanity.

    How about me, @guruforhire? What do I need to do?

    Quit social media.  I consider this a blanket recommendation.

     

    • #292
  23. JLock Inactive
    JLock
    @CrazyHorse

    Trinity Waters (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):
    Dude. Every “nevertrumper” has said: I have to admit he’s done a lot I agree with.

    Exactly. Even when they can admit that he has done a lot for conservatives to celebrate, they can’t resist statements like:

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: “I’m outraged by Trump and what’s become of conservatism,”

    He will never achieve enough conservative policies to satisfy the visceral reaction to his ‘low’ nature. He is just not, and never will be, good enough for their support. Right? Because its not, and never was about policy. It is about judgement of personal character. And to them, he fails. The rest is irrelevant.

    Yes, and what has he done that’s so “low”?

     

    @phenry, your analysis is spot on–

     

    No [redacted] — its the starting intergovernmental feuds without having the full breadth of evidence to do so. Don’t you see by doing the right things so brutally wrong he endangers these principles perhaps for generations?

    I have a mental list of members names that I simply skip when reading threads. An addition.

    I was out of line completely — my apologies. Just don’t want to see Claire beat about for confessing her heart. The people who are honest about where they differ with you are not dangerous. Its the ones lying about agreeing with you that are worrisome.

    • #293
  24. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Suspira (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):
    With Obama sleeper cells in the intelligence establishment, Trump has a real dilemma.

    Many years ago I read a book about MI5 and the hunt for moles in the wake of the Philby defection (it’s a well-known work, but I can’t find the title in my aging memory bank). Counter-espionage was called a house of mirrors, and the phrase was apt. I remember thinking there was no way to know the truth of anything inside.

    Current headlines bring back this feeling. I’m afraid I’m approaching the point of not trusting any partisan side, any news outlet, anyone. This is not a good place to be in a republic.

    The Cambridge 5 did a lot of damage and got a lot of people killed.

    Your right, I have been talking about the collapse of social trust for awhile now. I partially blame social media.

    Claire needs to quit for her own sanity.

    How about me, @guruforhire? What do I need to do?

    Quit social media. I consider this a blanket recommendation.

    I see. No room for any opinion other than yours.

    Can I still post cat videos, or do do those run counter to your sagacious suzerainty of human expression?

    • #294
  25. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    PHenry (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):
    No you troglodyte —

    Dude, that is uncalled for.

    Oh thanks for letting me know what he said!  Charmant, as the French would say.  And thank you Phenry.  But I can take it! And the great thing is, so can Trump.  He. Is. A. Man.

    • #295
  26. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    Percival (View Comment):
    Can I still post cat videos, or do do those run counter to your sagacious suzerainty of human expression?

    Cat vids make Morbo’s head throb. Give Morbo migraines.

    • #296
  27. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Percival (View Comment):

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    The Cambridge 5 did a lot of damage and got a lot of people killed.

    Your right, I have been talking about the collapse of social trust for awhile now. I partially blame social media.

    Claire needs to quit for her own sanity.

    How about me, @guruforhire? What do I need to do?

    Quit social media. I consider this a blanket recommendation.

    I see. No room for any opinion other than yours.

    Can I still post cat videos, or do do those run counter to your sagacious suzerainty of human expression?

    There is always room for other opinions.  They’re wrong, which is why I disagree with them.

    People can accept or reject my advice as they choose.  People don’t have to drink 8-12 glasses of water a day either.

    • #297
  28. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    Can I still post cat videos, or do do those run counter to your sagacious suzerainty of human expression?

    Cat vids make Morbo’s head throb. Give Morbo migraines.

    like pecan clusters

    • #298
  29. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):

    JLock (View Comment):
    No [redacted]—

    Dude, that is uncalled for.

    Oh thanks for letting me know what he said! Charmant, as the French would say. And thank you Phenry. But I can take it! And the great thing is, so can Trump. He. Is. A. Man.

    To be fair, @jlock  immediately agreed that it was uncalled for and has been redacted and apologized. Its easy, sometimes, to go too far in the heat of a debate.

    • #299
  30. Damocles Inactive
    Damocles
    @Damocles

    Tenacious D (View Comment):
    The thing that disturbs me about the Trump presidency, more than any actions he’s taken, is this appetite among some of his supporters to purge people from the conservative movement for insufficient loyalty. Revolutions that quickly turn on their own do not generally end well, historically speaking. We also have people promoting Alinskyite tactics on the right as a way to start winning more. Let’s take care not to turn into Jacobins.

    Do you recall who Claire voted for?  Have you read her twitter feed?  Did you see the one about starting a new political party?  These people are not being purged, they’re actively trying to start an alternative movement.

     

    • #300
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