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Frank Dikötter is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution who has recently returned to the United States after living in Hong Kong since 2006. In this provocative conversation, Dikötter challenges the prevailing narrative about China’s rise. Drawing from his latest book, China After Mao: The Rise of a Superpower, Dikötter argues that the Chinese Communist Party has masterfully projected the image of a powerful, modern, and economically dominant nation—but says that image is largely a façade.
Dikötter contends that far from being a true superpower, China remains fundamentally fragile: an empire held together by repression, propaganda, and paranoia. Despite gleaming cities and impressive-seeming economic statistics often cited by the West, he asserts that much of China’s so-called growth has been built on the backs of an impoverished population, often without its consent or benefit. He further explains how inflated numbers, hollow institutions, and internal contradictions undermine China’s long-term strength. In his view, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) hasn’t lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty—it has merely stepped aside as ordinary people began reclaiming their autonomy after decades of devastation under Mao.
Dikötter delves into how the CCP’s fear—of its own citizens, of capitalism, of peaceful evolution—has driven decisions for decades. Dikötter also draws parallels with the Soviet Union and suggests that, like the USSR’s, China’s power is brittle beneath the surface. Xi Jinping, he argues, is not a break from tradition but a continuation of the Party’s long-standing obsession with control.
This conversation calls into question not only China’s global ambitions but also how the West has consistently misread the CCP’s intentions and capabilities. Ultimately, Dikötter leaves us with a stark question: Are we overestimating China’s strength—and underestimating its fear?
Recorded on March 27, 2025
Discussion (4)
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Fascinating discussion. I’m currently reading Dr. Dikotter’s second book of his 4 volume work…all are excellent!! Highly recommend them.
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Good interview. I certainly have not heard this before.
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QS: I agree completely. Excellent interview. I read Mao's Famine. It is amazing how much the Commies get away with simply because the history is hidden. Holomodor, the real financial situation, etc.
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When I've taught undergraduate Introduction to Cultural Anthropology, I made the documentary Mao's Great Famine, based on Frank Dikötter's book, required viewing (related quiz and final exam questions assured greater engagement) for the students. It fits in perfectly with their textbook's chapter on the subject of Authority in regard to examining the relationship between the individual and the state and where human rights originate (from the state or innately from being human/the imago dei). Semester after semester, students repeatedly cited watching this documentary as an eye-opening experience, that they never knew this Mao/Communist Party imposed famine had happened, and that they better understood the real-world characteristics of Socialism and Communism (illustrated through history rather than just me defining the terms for them). Thank you, Dr. Dikötter!