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Gray Matters
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Administrative State, at George Mason University’s Antonin Scalia Law School, supports research and debate on the modern administrative state, and the constitutional issues surrounding it. In this podcast, we’ll discuss some of the questions being debated around modern administration — some new questions, some timeless ones. And you can also get the audio from Gray Center events. Listen to all episodes of Gray Matters at Ricochet.com.
- Hosts:
Adam J. White
In this panel discussion, moderator Aaron Nielson (University of Texas at Austin) speaks with Michael Buschbacher (Boyden Gray PLLC), Matt Gregory (Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP), and Stephanie Maloney (U.S. Chamber Litigation Center) about legal remedies and the state of strategic litigation against agencies. Show notes: YouTube version Sign up for email updates from the Gray Center here
Oklahoma Secretary of Energy and Environment Jeff Starling and the Fulcrum Foundation’s Reeve Bull discuss a new regulatory reform pilot project in Oklahoma. They share how Oklahoma is using AI to reform regulatory processes, reduce costs, and improve efficiency in government. Show notes: Reeve T. Bull, “Oklahoma is Leading the Way on AI-Powered Regulatory and Permitting Reform”
August 2026
July 2026
Adam White, Jace Lington, and Bennett Nuss analyze the recent Supreme Court decisions in Trump v. Slaughter and Trump v. Cook, focusing on the implications for executive power, administrative agency independence, and the future of administrative law. Adam White in SCOTUSblog Aditya Bamzai & Aaron Nielson on the Fed and Article II at The Cornell Law Review
Adam White hosts Chief Judge Susan G. Braden (Ret.) to discuss the Supreme Court’s decision in Trump v. Slaughter, which held the Federal Trade Commission’s statutory independence unconstitutional and explicitly overruled Humphrey’s Executor. Braden argues the ruling will ripple across administrative law by treating agencies with authority to file lawsuits on behalf of the United States as executive agencies subject to presidential control, and by limiting “independent” agencies to advisory roles. Sign up for email updates from the Gray Center here Judge Braden's paper on the future of the FTC Adam White's analysis of Slaughter and Cook in SCOTUSblog
June 2026
In this first panel from the Gray Center’s May conference, moderator Christopher J. Walker (University of Michigan) speaks with Megan Brown (Wiley Rein LLP), Roman Martinez (Latham & Watkins LLP), and Maria Monaghan (U.S. Chamber Litigation Center) about what courts are doing after Chevron’s overruling in Loper Bright. They discuss unresolved issues now playing out in lower courts, including Skidmore’s role, congressional delegation and “policymaking discretion,” stare decisis for prior Chevron-era precedents, and implications for other deference doctrines like Auer/Kisor. Sign up for email updates from the Gray Center here
May 2026
The third panel discussion from the Gray Center’s Fall 2025 conference featuring: Noah Phillips, Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP Matt Stoller, American Economic Liberties Project Moderator: Senior Judge Douglas Ginsburg, D.C. Circuit
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Chad Squitieri about his new paper, Congress in the Mouth of a Lawyer, which focuses on the president’s role in the lawmaking process. Prof. Squittieri discusses the constitutional role of the president in lawmaking, the importance of precise definitions of Congress, and implications for judges interpreting statutes. He explores how understanding the president's involvement influences legal doctrines and the separation of powers.
April 2026
The second panel discussion from the Gray Center's Fall 2025 conference featuring: Sarah Binder, Brookings Institution Jonathan Macey, Yale Law School Aaron Nielson, University of Texas Moderator: Adam White, C. Boyden Gray Center
March 2026
The first panel discussion from the Gray Center's Fall 2025 conference featuring: James Burnham, King Street Legal, and formerly of the U.S. Department of Government Efficiency Susan Dudley, former Administrator, White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs; Founder & Senior Scholar, GW Regulatory Studies Center; Distinguished Professor of Practice, Trachtenberg School of Public Policy & Public Administration Lisa Heinzerling, Georgetown University Law Center Moderator: Mene Ukueberuwa, Wall Street Journal
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Adam White about the recent Supreme Court case, exploring the nuances of statutory interpretation, the major questions doctrine, and the implications for executive and legislative powers. The Gray Center team analyzes the court's opinions, historical context, and future legal debates. Notes: Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump Michael D. Ramsey making an originalist defense of the Major Questions Doctrine John Ehrett's article at The American Mind about the New Right and the Major Questions Doctrine Adam White on the Court's approach to presidential power John Eastman on the tariff as an exercise of foreign policy
February 2026
January 2026
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Notre Dame Law Professor Jeffery Pojanowski about his forthcoming paper, “Faces of Formalism.” The paper explores the complexities of formalism in legal interpretation, discussing its two faces: authority and method. They delve into concrete examples, such as Gorsuch's application of textualism in the Bostock case, and examine the tensions that arise between these two aspects. Pojanowski offers some ideas about how to look for authoritative answers while respecting rules meant to limit judicial discretion. Notes: Faces of Formalism, Jefferey Pojanowski Neoclassical Administrative Law, Jeffrey Pojanowski
December 2025
Adam White, Jace Lington, and Bennett Nuss reflect on the significant regulatory developments of 2025, focusing on under-reported stories in the administrative state. They discuss the future of the Federal Reserve, the evolving relationships between public and private entities, the impact of repealing disparate impact laws, and the diminishing role of Congress. Notes: Trump Regulatory Policy: 2025 Compendium, Bridget C.E. Dooling, Notice & Comment Blog The Brave New World of Administrative Law, Adam White and Bennett Nuss, 2024 A Hard Look Podcast
November 2025
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss discuss the implications of the Loper Bright decision on administrative law with guest Eli Nachmany. Eli’s forthcoming paper, “Deference Undisturbed,” examines the effects of theLoper Bright decision on prior cases decided under the Chevron framework. They discuss the open legal questions that remain after the end of Chevron, the role of Congress in shaping administrative law, and the future of various deference doctrines. Notes: Vacatur as Complete Relief, Eli Nachmany, Cato Supreme Court Review Chevron Deference Was Fun While It Lasted, Eugene Scalia, Wall Street Journal
Jace Lington chats with Vulcan Technologies CEO Tanner Jones about how his company uses AI to help agencies, lawmakers, and businesses navigate the complex world of administrative law. They discuss whether AI systems will replace the industry and government consultants who usually guide people through the layers of law, regulation, and court precedent that affect our world. Notes: Vulcan Technologies Website Restoring Legislative Authority: A Balanced Approach to Agency Deference, Jonathan Wolfson and Tanner Jones Deference article
October 2025
Jace Lington chats with University of Michigan Law Professor Christopher J. Walker about how to reinvigorate Congress in light of the changing administrative law landscape. They discuss his recent article, Congress and the Shifting Sands in Administrative Law, and his ideas about how Congress can play a larger role in federal policymaking. Notes: Congress and the Shifting Sands in Administrative Law, Christopher J. Walker Delegation and Time, Jonathan H. Adler & Christopher J. Walker Congress’s Anti-Removal Power, Aaron L. Nielson & Christopher J. Walker Post-Chevron Working Group Report, Sen. Eric Schmitt (R-MO)
September 2025
Jace Lington chats with former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Daniel Kelly about what the Constitution says regarding who may exercise the judicial power. They discuss his new Gray Center policy brief, Jarkesy and the End of Political Adjudication, and his argument that the Supreme Court should go further and hold that the Constitution requires many trials now handled by agency adjudicators to take place in the proper forum—an Article III court. Notes: Jarkesy and the End of Political Adjudication, Beau J. Baumann
September 2024
Adam White and Jace Lington chat with Beau J. Baumann about his historical research into the Offices of Legislative Counsel. They discuss his forthcoming paper, Resurrecting the Trinity of Legislative Constitutionalism, and how Progressive reformers at the turn of the twentieth century built institutions to arrest congressional decline. Notes: Resurrecting the Trinity of Legislative Constitutionalism, Beau J. Baumann How Chief Justice Taft Wrote the Famous Myers Opinion, with Robert Post, Gray Matters
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