3 Whisky Happy HourThe Ricochet PodcastGLoP CultureBeyond the Polls with Henry OlsenGray MattersDaily SignalThe Erick Erickson ShowGiving VenturesMom Wars3 Martini LunchChicks on The RightParsing Immigration PolicyFederalist Radio HourWhat the Hell Is Going OnFreedom to LearnThe Learning CurveThe Conservative Woman’s GuideHeritage ExplainsNot Dead YetWho Funds that?The Radio Free Hillsdale HourThe Glenn ShowFirst Things PodcastCall Me Back - with Dan SenorHillsdale DialoguesLaw Talk with Epstein, Yoo & CookeThe LibertarianThe Report Card with Nat MalkusThe Kevin Roberts Show with Larry O’ConnorThe American IdeaMadison’s NotesConservative Crossroads with Henry OlsenThe Back of the BookMartini ShotThe Dave Carter ShowThe Powerline ShowIn DissentHeard at HeritageSmart Girl PoliticsJames Lileks’ The DinerCase in Point: The Legal Show on the Hottest Legal Cases in Politics and CultureJobMakersOne on One with Robert DoarHomeschooling Journeys with Curious MikeHubwonk

Get the Ricochet app

Ricochet will work fine in a browser on your mobile devices, but for the best experience please download our app.

Download on the App StoreGet it on Google Play

Become a member.

Tired of the toxicity of social media? Why not join Ricochet for just $5/month? Think of it as an online bar. Come in, have a drink, hang out, say whatever you want. But don’t badger, bully, or berate the other drinkers. That's our only rule.

  1. Main Feed/
  2. (Completely) Amateur Observations on the Oval Office Debacle
March 4, 2025 at 1:32 PM

(Completely) Amateur Observations on the Oval Office Debacle

Dr. Bastiat
@drbastiat

To read this bio, please join Ricochet.

Join to bookmark35likesJoin to like137comments
Wikimedia Commons

Steve wrote a fascinating post that generated some great discussion. Steve may be right about most of his points, and he knows a lot more about this sort of thing than I do. But I see this differently. I wonder if my take has crossed anyone else's mind.

First, let me point out that when someone does something that looks stupid, it's often because they're in a very difficult situation. They're desperate, there are no obvious sensible choices available to them, and they jump at the first opportunity to change things that they see. Whether it makes any sense or not. What choice do they have?

Zelensky is in a very, very difficult situation. First of all, he's leading a country in a war that he simply cannot win. Without ENORMOUS help from America, this war would not have lasted this long. Even with America's help, Ukraine is struggling to hang on. Secondly, how does Zelensky intend to retire? He's 47 years old. He has a young family. Where will he go? What will he do? Putin has a long memory. The chances of Zelensky dying of old age are very small. What about his family?

He's in a very, very difficult situation.

Wikimedia Commons

My point is that I think Zelensky walked into that meeting planning to do exactly that. Make a scene. Stand up to the most powerful man in the world. Get the video clips he needs to play on the TV stations at home, over and over again.

He agreed to sign the agreement the next day. I doubt he changed his mind that fast. He had already planned to sign the agreement because it made sense for Ukraine. Once America has a financial interest in Ukraine, like mining operations, then that will provide Ukraine with a much better security guarantee than some piece of paper with a signature on it. He has to sign this.

But first, he needed to show the world that he's not afraid of anything - not even the feared Donald Trump.

I could be wrong. But I think Zelensky is in a hopeless situation and is desperate to somehow demonstrate that he is a force to be reckoned with.

Wikimedia Commons

And I think it worked. It helped some, at least. If I'm right about his goals for the meeting, I think it went as well as it could have for Zelensky.

Then he signs the agreement. But he doesn't look like he was pressured to do so. He stood up to Trump. Even if he did give him exactly what he wanted.

I'll give you one more guess - a bit more off the rails, but I think it might possibly be true: During the meeting, when Zelensky was lashing out, I think Trump may have suspected that Zelensky was playing the exact game I describe. I suspect that's one reason Trump got so angry. He knew he was being played. At least, he suspected he was, but he wasn't sure enough to say so at the time.

Flickr. Michael Vadon.

Again, I'm not sure about that last part. But Trump is really good at this sort of thing, and is very experienced in all sorts of negotiations. He's probably seen this play before. Heck, he's probably done it himself at some point in his career. You negotiate with whatever cards you have available at the time. Few people understand that better than Trump.

I have no idea what I'm talking about. Neither does anybody else. We don't know what was said before that meeting, or what information the principals have at their disposal. We're all speculating.

But when I saw that meeting, this was my first thought.

What do you think?

This post was promoted to the Main Feed at the recommendation of Ricochet's members.

Discussion (137)

Sign in to commentSign in
  • To read this bio, please join Ricochet.

    Some Call Me ...Tim@SomeCallMeTim·1y

    Did Zelenskyy sign the deal the next day? All sorts of things are being reported, like Zelenskyy signed a deal with the UK last week.
    Interesting take on the meeting from a different angle. Good post.

  • To read this bio, please join Ricochet.

    Subcomandante America@TheReticulator·1y
    ReplyingtoSome Call Me ...Tim

    Some Call Me ...Tim (View Comment):

    Did Zelenskyy sign the deal the next day? All sorts of things are being reported, like Zelenskyy signed a deal with the UK last week.
    Interesting take on the meeting from a different angle. Good post.

    If the information came from the Trump White House, it probably isn't true. It might be, but odds are against it. But if Trump and Zelensky both say he signed, he probably signed.

  • CHARTER MEMBER

    To read this bio, please join Ricochet.

    Sisyphus@Sisyphus·1y

    Part of the dynamic of the meeting is that, while Trump was addressing the press facing away from Zelensky, JD and Rubio were watching Zelensky roll his eyes and shake his head and scowl at Trump. While apologists flood the zone claiming cultural or language issues, just play the tape. Zelensky is not a novice at negotiating in English and is responsible for his own support in negotiations.

    I fully agree with your point about a sense of desperation. I also believe he is desperate to discredit a Trump Administration that is poised to investigate his rumored malfeasance with regard to the handling of US military aid. That goes hand in hand with Zelensky's "where is the money" and the missing $80 billion and such. Trump is focusing on peace first, which I fully support, but peace means an end to Zelensky's leadership of Ukraine and much greater vulnerability to investigation. Trump's focus on ending the violence in the face of stubborn European belligerence from all sides and parties and without raising distractions about the corruption that has riddled US-world relations. There is blame there on all sides, and not one man at arms should be left in harms way to thrash that part out.

    Zelensky's future looks grim indeed from where I sit.

  • CHARTER MEMBER

    To read this bio, please join Ricochet.

    Sisyphus@Sisyphus·1y
    ReplyingtoSome Call Me ...Tim

    Some Call Me ...Tim (View Comment):

    Did Zelenskyy sign the deal the next day? All sorts of things are being reported, like Zelenskyy signed a deal with the UK last week.
    Interesting take on the meeting from a different angle. Good post.

    No. Trump no longer trusts Zelensky to act as a peace partner and has stopped all military aid to Ukraine.

  • To read this bio, please join Ricochet.

    Subcomandante America@TheReticulator·1y
    ReplyingtoSisyphus

    Some Call Me …Tim (View Comment):

    Did Zelenskyy sign the deal the next day? All sorts of things are being reported, like Zelenskyy signed a deal with the UK last week.
    Interesting take on the meeting from a different angle. Good post.

    Sisyphus (View Comment):

    No. Trump no longer trusts Zelensky to act as a peace partner and has stopped all military aid to Ukraine.

    I thought he had stopped all aid, period, including the aid for restoring civilian energy infrastructure that was being targeted by Russian missiles. Is that not true?

Scroll for later comments
+132 more comments
Join the conversation

You're seeing five of 137 comments. Sign in, or join for just $5 per month, to read them all and add your own.

Trending

Become a member.

Tired of the toxicity of social media? Why not join Ricochet for just $5/month? Think of it as an online bar. Come in, have a drink, hang out, say whatever you want. But don’t badger, bully, or berate the other drinkers. That's our only rule.

Join Ricochet

Get the Ricochet app

Download on the App StoreGet it on Google Play
  • •
  • •