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Two short observations and recommendations (Thoughts on the Rene Good incident)

Henry Castaigne
@HenryCastaigne
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Firstly, Rene Good attended an anti-ICE protest to keep illegal Somalis in Minnesota. These illegals may well have liked to see her dead because of her sexual orientation.

Conservative Republican Christians are now functionally more pro-gay than many homosexual leftists. I have been pro-gay rights for over two decades, but I’d never thought I’d be more pro-gay than people who are in a gay marriage. Life is weird.

My second observation is how the right tends to confirm whether things are true. The left started sympathetic to the protester, while the right jumped to sympathize with the ICE agent. Then, the right did research. After the research, the right generally concluded that the ICE officer was in the right because the evidence supported that narrative. The left doesn’t care about evidence at all. It is narrative uber alles with them.

I wonder how to argue with people who are immune to facts and evidence? The mayor of Minneapolis has urged people to watch the videos from all the different angles and realize that the cop was at fault. The left is so narrative-driven that Mayor Jacob Frey knows that referencing evidence that disproves the left-wing narrative has no negative side effects on his base. It’s not believing in an illusion anymore, it’s believing in an anti-Truth.

I am fairly certain that I could not have convinced Rene Good that importing Somalis would be bad for gay rights. I could have had a dictionary's worth of graphs, figures and in-depth interviews...and it wouldn't have mattered.

In conclusion, we live in strange times. I suggest that the right focus on obtaining power as much as we focus on developing good arguments. I also suggest that we be friendly to homosexuals who are moved by evidence.

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Discussion (102)

  • Old Bathos@OldBathos

    Somebody needs to explain why the core demographic of the Democratic Party and the front line of all demonstrations is composed of angry lesbians and transgenders. The bizarre spectacle of such folks being pro-Hamas, pro-Maduro and demanding free rein for illegal alien rapists and murderers all in the name of social justice is more than a little irrational.

    Back in my day, demonstrators had a clear idea of the cause du jour, (e.g., Vietnam, civil rights). This current crowd seems to be equally angry on command for climate, sexuality, foreign policy, immigration or not winning an election or all of the above at the same time depending on which pre-printed signs they are handed.

    But the weird rage of so many biological females and female-adjacent males seems pathological.

  • Judge Mental@JudgeMental
    ReplyingtoOld Bathos

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    Somebody needs to explain why the core demographic of the Democratic Party and the front line of all demonstrations is composed of angry lesbians and transgenders. The bizarre spectacle of such folks being pro-Hamas, pro-Maduro and demanding free rein for illegal alien rapists and murderers all in the name of social justice is more than a little irrational.

    Back in my day, demonstrators had a clear idea of the cause du jour, (e.g., Vietnam, civil rights). This current crowd seems to be equally angry on command for climate, sexuality, foreign policy, immigration or not winning an election or all of the above at the same time depending on which pre-printed signs they are handed.

    But the weird rage of so many biological females and female-adjacent males seems pathological.

    Even after DOGE, a lot of them are still paid to be there.

  • Chris O@ChrisO
    Henry Castaigne (View Post):

    It’s not believing in an illusion anymore, it’s believing in an anti-Truth.

    There is no way to argue with it. There is no way to argue when the person or group has an emotional stake in their narrative being true. If they're wrong, the whole thing breaks down. They can't be wrong.

    Maybe another part of that is they think because they feel anger that they are righteous. Some on the Right do this as well, and it's just as unappealing. It's something like, "I yell about my cause so it must be superior. Look at them, they don't even yell. They don't feel as strongly as I do so my side must be right."

    That's not always the reason for yelling. At least some the time they do it to intimidate and prevent others from expressing any sort of counterargument. Something like that even happens here from time-to-time.

  • DonG (Here.We.Go.)@DonG
    Henry Castaigne (View Post):

    I wonder how to argue with people who are immune to facts and evidence?

    I have never had success with any method, but I think the "pace and lead" technique might work.

    1. Follow first. Show empathy, understand the model of the other person’s world. Reflect on that, repeat or paraphrase their problem or idea. Show that you also sympathize when the other person feels something negative. Build rapport and test if you have rapport. You do this by changing something in your communication and checking whether the other person agrees.
    2. Only now can you lead towards a solution. Now you can ignite the other with positive traits, resources, skills, states of mind or solutions. Note: you have to do this congruently and certainly. For example, if you want to pay someone in a restaurant the bill, don’t hesitate. Then you say definitely and leading: ‘No, we are not going to do that. I’ll pay the bill. ‘

    The problem is not the technique is that you are asking the person to turn their backs on the warm embrace of their cult and to join the reality of rugged individuality. That is a big scary lifestyle change.

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