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I’ve been thinking about a comment I made in response to someone (he can acknowledge it if he feels) -- but I didn't finish it.
Member: Pelagianism kind of describes my very early split with religion. Good man lives a good life, never comes to God, doesn’t go to Heaven. Sus.
Me: Well, that’s sort of at the very core of Christianity. Man (Adam) took one innocent (but not) bite of a fruit and cursed not only himself but everyone born to him to hell, essentially. One can look at the unfairness of it all, but when I look at the world, I think I get the point.
But I didn't say the point.
The point is that this past century (more or less) we’ve had WWI, WWII, Stalin’s millions, Mao’s millions, and a world constantly at war. And wars now in Ukraine and Israel threatening WWIII. And I vaguely remember a chart demonstrating that the world has gone without war for only a few years, once or twice in its history. And according to the reading of Genesis, it all started with one man taking one bite of a fruit that he was told – and he understood – not to eat; and the world has been subjected to war and death ever since. That’s the effect of sin. If taking one bad bite did this, it is possible that if Adam had been just one in ten thousand walking the earth, or even one in a million, the same evil, warlike people devolved from him – even if surrounded by ten or a hundred times as many peaceful nations – would have led us to exactly where we are today.
Forty-five years ago, I was told by a professor (a queer rabbit he was; a former Hell’s Angel, former Forest Ranger, former US naval officer, and then-current Ph.D. in the Hebrew Scriptures and Semitic languages) that there was speculation that when satan sinned, the other angels said privately: Yes, he sinned and needs to be punished, but forever? Isn’t that just too much?
Overkill? they wondered. Who today does not wonder this?
And the implication is, as far as I can see, that God has allowed all this, all these millennia of evil to occur to show the Angels, (perhaps the Watchers of Dan 4:17), and all of creation ever to come, just how bad sin is, just what one little disobedience, one little minor disobedient bite, leads to. And this, in turn, shows how good the opposite is, how good God’s good is. His character. His rightness. How perfect, and peaceful, how joyous, and how right His way is. So for every heartbreak, for every illness, for every slander or theft or murder, this creates an eternal testimony for how bad, how evil, even the slightest evil, the slightest disregard for God, is. And this, in turn, contrasts the greatness and the brightness and wisdom and goodness of God.
And so, yes, in the meantime we have to trust that God is good, and that His ways are perfect, and that ultimate justice will be done. And that, in the end, all will be made right. And, yes, that it will be manifestly true to each and every soul ever to have lived, that God is right. And that God is good.
This is for us now perhaps inconceivable in its expanse and import.
But for the Jews (Isaiah 6:1-7):
I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple ... And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. ... [A]nd the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and your sin purged.
And for those in the Time of the Gentiles (Rev 1:17-18):
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen."
Discussion (15)
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One step further - does this go some way to explain the left’s rejection of faithful and broadly accepted Christianity, and its determination to dilute it to meaninglessness? It has seemed to me that the depth of hatred of the left toward Christian faith is excessive - why not just leave it alone, ignore, go your own way and be done? To succeed don’t they have to obliterate the recognition and acceptance of the “expanse and import” and consequence of sin?
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That's a good question and a hard one to answer. Off the top of my head I think it's a symptom. People are spiritually blind until they are given sight. Spiritually deaf until given hearing. I think we're all born heathens and enemies of God. And we all also have to undergo a change of mind and heart. If we Christians see through a glass darkly, how much darker is it for the non-Christians? And the only light is Jesus Himself.
Sorry, I have to think about it and it's pretty late here, so I'll try to get back to you in 8 hours or so, if that's okay. :)
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I think it is a mistake to look at big events and wonder why there was no divine intervention to effect better outcomes. That was never the deal.
I don't see God as a director/scriptwriter I must petition for changes in the script that affect me or for better endings.
I think God is more like the prof in an Improv class: OK, here is the scene: you're an aging, average guy with modestly declining health, limited finances, and who has made lots of mistakes in life but somehow still muddling through. Suddenly you sense that it is not too late to do something truly meaningful. You are at your kind of boring job but today strangely aware of the other people around you and their pains and needs....AND ACTION.
And your grade in the class is not whether everything turns out great for the character but how much life, energy, integrity, creativity, and courage you bring to whatever role you were assigned. If everybody performs to the fullest, then the whole human drama is worth watching. If we don't, then it sucks. It is about how we live out the roles we start with.
It is noteworthy that the early church did not come out with a ringing denunciation of slavery. In part, this may be due to a view that it was so endemic it was hard to imagine a world without it. But in larger part it was the idea that social transformations follow conversions of the heart not the other way round. The slave would serve generously, and the master would care for and provide for the slave such that love and respect would transform the relationship accordingly and the old cruel institution would disappear.
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God knows everything: Nothing surprises Him. He knows when I sit down and when I arise. He knows my every thought, even before I think it. (Psalm 139:2) Prayers, to the extent they are in accordance with His will, are answered - otherwise not. (1 Jn. 5:14, 15) I can't have any assurance of getting an answer "why." To say something "doesn't make any sense" - well, perhaps not to me. But then I don't know the end from the beginning, except in general terms and I could even be wrong there.
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Well, if you take the opening of Genesis to be literally true, it does seem unfair. One mistake at the beginning and everyone is condemned. I think most theologians take the Adam and Eve story as a metaphor for some cause to what they see is the current condition. It's almost a post de facto explanation of why humanity has fallen from the full of grace condition it was intended at first to have. And yes, it was only a bite of a piece of fruit but it was the central and only command given. Also don't forget it's sometimes called the fortunate fall.
en.wikipedia.org
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Because of the fall Christ became incarnate.
I don't so much wonder at angels forever in hell (they are spiritual beings and I think might have a different type of justice) but I do wonder about the everlasting nature of human damnation. It does seem unfair. I pray in God's justice and that there is more to it all than revealed.
I totally enjoyed this post! Thanks.
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