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As loyal listeners know, yesterday Steve, John, and Lucretia took over the flagship Ricochet podcast in the absence of both Peter Robinson (still somewhere in the Witness Protection Program) and Rob Long (out walking a Hollywood picket line somewhere), and we made James Lileks' life completely miserable.
We decided that a couple of issues we brought up deserved some extended discussion in this bonus episode, starting with the "trust" question: why do Americans now hold nearly all major institutions, both public and private, in such low regard? We run through a number of factors, from ideology, competence, and corruption, but also wonder about whether our ruling elites today don't have the same kind of noblesse oblige that characterized the elites of the 1950s (the Dulles brothers get a special shout-out).
Next, we return to the question of "human rights" versus the natural rights of the American Founding, and the mischief that the rise of "human rights" has entailed in modern times. Steve had intended to nitpick John's understanding of Thomas Hobbes, but the Learned Lucretia shows up in force, with marvelous renditions of Locke and Hobbes, casting doubt on Steve's proposition that maybe there exists a "Hobbistotle" to go with Tom West's "Lockistotle." It's not as wonky and esoteric as it sounds! Well actually maybe it is, but we think you'll still enjoy this Trump and Biden-free episode (and ad-free, too!)
Our thanks, by the way, to the Ricochet team for the honor of occupying their show, and to James Lileks for his indulgence.
But because Lucretia and John once again wrongly dismiss Steve's embrace of prog rock ("Rock and roll that went to college," as Jody Bottum calls it), the exit music for this episode is an excerpt from "The Chamber of 32 Doors," which is the Prog Rock version of "Rich Men North of Richmond" which we discuss briefly in this episode.
I'd rather trust a countryman than a townman
You can judge by his eyes, take a look if you can
He'll smile through his guard, survival trains hard
I'd rather trust a man who works with his hands
He looks at you once, you know he understands
Don't need any shield, when you're out in the field. . .
The priest and the magician
Singin' all the chants that they have ever heard
And they're all calling out my name
Even academics, searching printed word
Maybe the academics will figure it out someday, but judging by the elite culture's reaction to "Rich Men North of Richmond," today is not that day.
Steve Hayward
Discussion (10)
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Yeah, Hobbes is a materialist. Lots of trouble there.
Locke is much more than Hobbes with a happy face. Locke has a theological foundation for his moral claims, not just some talk about matter in motion.
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I was a little surprised to hear @JohnYoo say that NatCon folks want to burn it all down? I think he's lumping in what might better be called members of the New Right, Dissident Right, etc. - cuz the NatCon folks (like Jashinsky, Hammer, Stepmen, Reaboi, Hazony, Weingarten, etc.) would likely be surprised to know they want to do that... We need to define these camps better.
@Lucretia made what might be the best comment I have heard on Strauss's comments on pre-Christian philosophy and how Hobbes (springing from Machiavelli) Natural Right is fully consistent with Aristotle - at about 42:00 - I love the Plato walked us out of the cave, and how the Left can be viewed as trying to bring back the old Gods in a sense. EXCELLENT MOMENT IN PODCAST!!
Then @JohnYoo comes back with the observation (which is actually the observation made by many Dissident Right folks like McIntyre that I think John is criticizing earlier) that the Locke quote points at a government that injects itself into your life to "make you better" - which is what the whole New Right critique of Civil Rights Regime as well as the Left's justification for Hate Speech, Transgenderism, and Deplatforming is all springing from. GREAT CATCH JOHN!
Large Federal Government structure should be viewed under the Hobbesian lens I heard (since you cannot trust WHO decides what is Good/Evil), and that it may very well be the Lockean injection of morality into the system that brings the fatal flaw of Progressive Liberalism with it... (yeah probably not, but amazing conversation)
WHAT A GREAT PODCAST! (and I went and listened to the Flagship Podcast before this - it was better that way I think)
EDIT: OMG STEVE YOU ENDED THE PODCAST!! BRO!! It was in the Zone, and you politely smothered it...lol, it was a great episode guys.
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To Steve’s question of who would want to go into the military. Nobody really wanted to exactly , no more than a child wants to go to school. Between 1940 and 1969 or 1970 military service was just a fact of life, it was just what men did, it was part of one’s education and maturation. Almost all the older men that you knew had served, those who hadn’t would volunteer the reason, weight, asthma, feet, elbow, whatever. They would ‘hold their manhood cheap’ while others speak as Shakespeare put it. Now, I’m not calling for a return of the draft for several reasons one of which is that the country where that was possible no longer exists.
It’s ending though, while necessary, has contributed to today’s infantilization and feminization of men, the 28 year old slouching teenagers who think themselves too young to get married, the attitude that the military is for those ‘too stupid’ to go to college, and other modern pathologies. It also democratized the military, all races, incomes, educations, cultures and parts of the country were included and lived and worked together. We lost something when the military became totally separate from the civilian population.
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I listened to the flagship podcast yesterday (Saturday) and this one today. As a longtime listener to TWHH, what I want to know is why did Steve feel compelled to ask Lucretia to behave herself on the flagship. Lucretia? Misbehave? When has that ever happened?
Hobbes/Locke/Aristotle discussion was interesting, but I am left with one burning question on another topic: How can two obviously brilliant individuals such as John and Lucretia be so wrong about progressive rock? :) Steve must overcome their objections and devote a good portion of an episode to the 50th anniversary of Selling England by the Pound (10/12). Bring in James Lileks! Does Peter like Genesis? He must.
Good to know that John and Steve both started out in journalism. Did not know that. I did 42 years, the last nine part-time while teaching full-time. Great memories of the glory days. So sad what has happened to newspapers.
PODCAST ORGANIZATION
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Man, you really bring it!
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