A Conversation with Charles Murray and Steve Sailer, Pt. 1

The idea for this episode was born on Twitter. Someone wondered if Charles Murray would be willing to do a podcast with journalist Steve Sailer, who, like Charles, is willing to confront openly the most delicate aspects of race and class in America—and gets the same treatment from liberals everywhere: complete demonization.

I offered to host, and Charles and Steve, who have never met, agreed.

Well I asked a lot of questions, by mostly just tried to get out of the way and let Charles and Steve talk, and really work through some questions at leisure. We talked so long that this became a two-part episode (with part 2 coming next week).

We start here with some general observations about "the great awokening" of the last decade, and how the roots of the madness we saw in the aftermath of George Floyd's death in 2020 were well under way years before. What were those roots, and how did Obama figure into this story? The consequences of substituting "equity" for equality are too obvious to need mentioning, but we discuss them anyway.

The second half, next week, will examine some of the more specific aspects of education today, starting with the current attack on meritocracy, which Charles and Steve agree, paradoxically, is not without it merits!

P.S. Here's the podcast episode with Charles from four years ago that I mention in the introduction, "How Charles Murray Became Charles Murray."