February 21, 2025

The Tragic End of the Bibas Story - with Matti Friedman

This morning in Gaza, in a ceremony that was even more twisted than those that came before it, Hamas paraded four coffins, containing the dead bodies of four hostages who were killed in captivity, before handing them over to the Red Cross. Israel then received the remains of Oded Lifshitz, an 83-year-old peace activist abducted from his home in Kibbutz Nir Oz; and the bodies of the iconic young mother Shiri Bibas, and her boys, Kfir and Ariel, who were respectively 9 months old and 4 years old at the time of their abduction, also from Nir Oz, which lost a quarter of its residents on October 7, 2023.

Shiri, Kfir and Ariel came to symbolize Hamas’s brutality and the helplessness of the victims of October 7. Oded was also a symbol of the many men and women who had dedicated their lives to seeking peace with the Palestinians, and whose lives were brutally ended by Palestinians on that darkest of days.

In a year of somber days, today is one of the more difficult ones we have experienced - here at Call Me Back, and as a nation. We are joined today to process this wrenching moment by a Call Me Back favorite: Matti Friedman, to help us understand what this day means for Israel, and how it will change us and the stories we tell ourselves about Israel and our hopes for peace.

Matt Friedman is an award-winning journalist and author of four books. He is based in Jerusalem, and writes a column for The Free Press. Read his latest, “The Family That Never Came Home,” here: https://www.thefp.com/p/matti-friedman-the-bibas-shiri-kfir-ariel-yarden

Matti’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Matti-Friedman/author/B0073YU31C

Link to Seth Mandel’s article in Commentary Magazine, mentioned by Dan in this episode: https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/the-meaning-of-kfir-bibas/

We would like to take this opportunity to thank Rebecca Strom, who has been running Ark Media’s operations almost since the beginning of the war, and is now moving on to the next chapter in her career. Rebecca was our first hire, and in hindsight, having her run our operations allowed Ilan and Dan to develop a larger vision. More on that in the near future. In the meantime, on behalf of the Ark Media team, we want to share our gratitude for all the hard work, long hours, holidays and weekends that Rebecca poured into this venture.

Consequently, Ark Media is now looking for a hard working, mission-aligned, highly motivated Chief Operating Officer. If you want to throw your hat into the ring, please follow this link

CREDITS:

ILAN BENATAR - Producer & Editor

MARTIN HUERGO - Editor

STAV SLAMA - Director of Operations

GABE SILVERSTEIN - Research Intern

YUVAL SEMO - Music Composer

Host:: Dan Senor

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Eugene Kriegsmann@EugeneKriegsmann1y

The Crisis of Islam by Bernard Lewis which I read several years ago makes it very clear that injecting rational thinking into Muslim fanatics is simply a no-go. Their entire thinking process is centered around the Koran. There is no science other than that which was written 1300 years ago. What was, in their minds, Dar al Islam, essentially territory once governed under Muslim rule remains so in perpetuity. Murder of the Jews, specifically, is almost mandatory though they can quote passages which are less vile when the need arises to prove that Islam is a religion of peace. What happened on October 7th and the days afterward when the two Bibas children were brutally murdered and then had their bodies further desecrated to make them look like they died in a bombing is not unexpected. These are people, after all who willingly send their own children out with dynamite strapped to their bodies, or, as is the case of Iran during the Iran/Iraq War, use their children to clear mine fields. Why would one expect that they would acknowledge and obey the rules of war western countries set up and agreed upon. Their religion justifies lying to non-Muslims which is why Paliwood exists. They know that westerners will gladly accept fake videos of dead Muslim children, women, and old people who miraculously get up and walk around after the videos are shot.

Ultimately, you cannot fight a civilized war against a savage people whose world view differs from yours by 180º. They will say and do anything because their religion tells them that they can and should, and to them, their religion is everything. There is a good reason that none of the surrounding countries wants to offer them sanctuary. They are like mad dogs trained to kill indescrimately. Let them into your country and they will be nothing but a problem. They are not fit to be treated as humans. They have been trained and conditioned to act inhumanly. I don't believe that that conditioning can be reversed.

Discussion (3)

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Eugene Kriegsmann@EugeneKriegsmann1y
This is a particularly heart wrenching episode. I have listened to it twice. The first time was on Friday when Dan originally posted it. Then again this morning after reading the IDF's info release on the causes of death of the two children. John Podhoretz made the mistake of saying that they were shot. What was in the release was that they were killed "by hand." Meaning, most likely, that they were strangled. It is an unbelievable image. Add to that that the body of the woman supposed to be the children's mother turned out to not be her but a unidentified Palestinian woman.
What Matti Friedman says in this podcast, that the Bibas, mother and children were not abducted by Hamas, but, rather, by Palestinians who had followed Hamas into Israel makes the murder of these children and their mother even more appalling. However, it also confirms what I have thought since the beginning, that there are few, if any, "innocent" Palestinians. I have no sympathy for them, any of them. I have even less sympathy for anyone who believes that what the Israelis have done in response to October 7th is anything but well earned payback. It is time for all hell to be unleashed on these unredeemable savages.
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Steve Fast@SteveFast1y
ReplyingtoEugene Kriegsmann
Eugene Kriegsmann (View Comment):
This is a particularly heart wrenching episode. I have listened to it twice. The first time was on Friday when Dan originally posted it. Then again this morning after reading the IDF’s info release on the causes of death of the two children. John Podhoretz made the mistake of saying that they were shot. What was in the release was that they were killed “by hand.” Meaning, most likely, that they were strangled. It is an unbelievable image. Add to that that the body of the woman supposed to be the children’s mother turned out to not be her but a unidentified Palestinian woman.
What Matti Friedman says in this podcast, that the Bibas, mother and children were not abducted by Hamas, but, rather, by Palestinians who had followed Hamas into Israel makes the murder of these children and their mother even more appalling. However, it also confirms what I have thought since the beginning, that there are few, if any, “innocent” Palestinians. I have no sympathy for them, any of them. I have even less sympathy for anyone who believes that what the Israelis have done in response to October 7th is anything but well earned payback. It is time for all hell to be unleashed on these unredeemable savages.
I hate to agree because I had thought that Israel could crush Hamas and that Gazans would then be free of their terrorist masters and would return to sanity. Sadly, I was wrong. There are no innocent Gazans. They all have to be wiped out because their delusions cannot be crushed.
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Eugene Kriegsmann@EugeneKriegsmann1y
The Crisis of Islam by Bernard Lewis which I read several years ago makes it very clear that injecting rational thinking into Muslim fanatics is simply a no-go. Their entire thinking process is centered around the Koran. There is no science other than that which was written 1300 years ago. What was, in their minds, Dar al Islam, essentially territory once governed under Muslim rule remains so in perpetuity. Murder of the Jews, specifically, is almost mandatory though they can quote passages which are less vile when the need arises to prove that Islam is a religion of peace. What happened on October 7th and the days afterward when the two Bibas children were brutally murdered and then had their bodies further desecrated to make them look like they died in a bombing is not unexpected. These are people, after all who willingly send their own children out with dynamite strapped to their bodies, or, as is the case of Iran during the Iran/Iraq War, use their children to clear mine fields. Why would one expect that they would acknowledge and obey the rules of war western countries set up and agreed upon. Their religion justifies lying to non-Muslims which is why Paliwood exists. They know that westerners will gladly accept fake videos of dead Muslim children, women, and old people who miraculously get up and walk around after the videos are shot.
Ultimately, you cannot fight a civilized war against a savage people whose world view differs from yours by 180º. They will say and do anything because their religion tells them that they can and should, and to them, their religion is everything. There is a good reason that none of the surrounding countries wants to offer them sanctuary. They are like mad dogs trained to kill indescrimately. Let them into your country and they will be nothing but a problem. They are not fit to be treated as humans. They have been trained and conditioned to act inhumanly. I don't believe that that conditioning can be reversed.