The Politics of Moore

This week, it’s the sexiest Ricochet Podcast in memory as we parse the continuing harassment revelations, and the troubling and bizarre saga of Judge Roy Moore. But before we get to that, former New York Congressman Chris Gibson stops by to talk about his book Rally Point: Five Tasks to Unite the Country and Revitalize the American Dream and his views on uniting the country and revitalizing the American dream. Then, newly minted Ricochet podcaster Erick Erickson stops by to give his boots-on-ground (he’s based in Atlanta) view on Roy Moore and talk about his heartbreaking and inspirational new book Before You Wake: Life Lessons from a Father to His Children.

Music from this week’s show: Don’t Stand So Close To Me by The Police

Humbert, humbert @ejhill

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There are 43 comments.

  1. CB Toder aka Mama Toad Member
    CB Toder aka Mama Toad Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Congressman Gibson: I live in your former district, in New Paltz. We miss you.

    Thank you for your service, not just in Congress but also in the military.

    I’m a graduate of Williams College. When did you join the faculty? Hooray! I wish you’d been there when I was there….

    • #1
    • November 11, 2017, at 11:44 AM PST
    • 1 like
  2. JcTPatriot Inactive

    Where is Atlanta Alabama? I can’t find it on the map.

    • #2
    • November 11, 2017, at 12:18 PM PST
    • 1 like
  3. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    JcTPatriot: Where is Atlanta Alabama?

    Same place the keep the one in Georgia. I’ve done plenty of games from both Alabama and Auburn and Atlanta is close enough to do the drive.

    • #3
    • November 11, 2017, at 12:25 PM PST
    • Like
  4. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    • #4
    • November 11, 2017, at 2:10 PM PST
    • Like
  5. JcTPatriot Inactive

    EJHill (View Comment):

    I want to meet you and come to your house so I can play all day with that adorable dog. I’ll bet she’ll play with a squeaky toy for hours with me.

    • #5
    • November 11, 2017, at 2:31 PM PST
    • Like
  6. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    JcTPatriot: I’ll bet he’ll play with a squeaky toy for hours with me.

    She would love it.

    • #6
    • November 11, 2017, at 2:49 PM PST
    • Like
  7. Eugene Kriegsmann Member

    James, even when at your most inarticulate, you are remarkably fluent and coherent.

    • #7
    • November 11, 2017, at 3:16 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  8. Ian M Coolidge

    Just wanted to chime in that the “Flight 93” analogy is a bit of a misrepresentation of the argument. The argument seems to be over several parts: 1) The morality of a 30 year old man legally dating 3 women 16 or over. 2) Whether the 14 year old girl that he would have illegally touched actually happened, given the timing of this information after all of these years of him being in the public eye and the Republican primary already having concluded. The Flight 93 aspect of R vs. D factors in, but mostly it centers on the one illegal claim actually occurring or not given the history of smear politics and the timing.

    • #8
    • November 11, 2017, at 3:33 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  9. Ian M Coolidge

    “At the same time, James, the country is going to sort this out, democracy is still going to work.” I love this country!

    • #9
    • November 11, 2017, at 3:43 PM PST
    • 1 like
  10. Merrijane Thatcher

    It seems to me unlikely that every election is a flight 93 situation. At any rate, if we keep choosing primary candidates of substandard morals and qualifications, eventually it will destroy both the party AND the country.

    • #10
    • November 11, 2017, at 6:54 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  11. JcTPatriot Inactive

    EJHill (View Comment):

    JcTPatriot: I’ll bet she’ll play with a squeaky toy for hours with me.

    She would love it.

    Corrected my assumption of gender. How dare I assume her gender?

    That reminds me. When I was a small child, I used to think dogs were the boy pets and cats were the girls. Now that I think of it, my dog was a boy and I didn’t have a cat, so that probably helped.

    • #11
    • November 11, 2017, at 7:16 PM PST
    • Like
  12. RufusRJones Member

    He had FIVE state wide elections before this one. FIVE. The timing stinks. The media is an arm of the Democrat party. It’s the Bezos election. What do you do?

    In general (maybe not this time) the morals thing is kind of stupid right now. Look at everything Obama did to get to the White House just to lie to us about the ACA. Permanent political and economic damage. I really think people like Bill Crystal, and Max Boot just don’t give a damn about the destructiveness of statism because it actually makes their life better. Angelo Codavilla is right about the Ruing Class.

    Everything is about the Overton Window, Cloward and Piven, Keynesianism, and Alinsky and the raw power this stuff seizes, permanently. I say screw morals, mostly.

    • #12
    • November 12, 2017, at 2:32 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  13. RufusRJones Member

    Why is government moral when it’s so centralized and it produces so many “non-public goods”? How many ways have we made it uncountable in the sense of what the Founders intended? Interventionist Fed, cartels everywhere, inflation and asset bubbles, income tax, direct election of Senators, intergenerational theft, every single government actuarial system is about to implode, since Nixon the media became a weapon of the statists etc. etc. etc.

    I care far more how they vote and explain policy than about who they are and their “moral leadership” whatever that is supposed to mean.

    The CEO of The Podesta Group was Jeb Bush’s campaign manager. Screw these people.

    I think all of that stuff that Ben Sasse goes on and on about is very counterproductive right now. The
    Republic is a gigantic scam machine and there isn’t much that can be done at the individual level.

    There is a very good description of the horrific structure of government we have, here. Start at 13:00.

    • #13
    • November 12, 2017, at 3:15 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  14. Robert McReynolds Inactive

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    Why is government moral when it’s so centralized and it produces so many “non-public goods”? How many ways have we made it uncountable in the sense of what the Founders intended? Interventionist Fed, cartels everywhere, inflation and asset bubbles, income tax, direct election of Senators, intergenerational theft, every single government actuarial system is about to implode, since Nixon the media became a weapon of the statists etc. etc. etc.

    I care far more how they vote and explain policy than about who they are and their “moral leadership” whatever that is supposed to mean.

    The CEO of The Podesta Group was Jeb Bush’s campaign manager. Screw these people.

    I think all of that stuff that Ben Sasse goes on and on about is very counterproductive right now. The
    Republic is a gigantic scam machine and there isn’t much that can be done at the individual level.

    There is a very good description of the horrific structure of government we have, here. Start at 13:00.

    This is precisely what is wrong. Does anyone truly believe that the GOP leaders want to limit government? Does anyone really believe these people care about Moore’s alleged foibles as opposed to there being another rabble rouser in the Senate who can call Mitch out for being a lying serpent? Krystal and Boot just want to bomb children in the third world. McConnell and company just want control over the appropriations. And the rest just want to be considered right thinking people by those setting the tempo in DC. No one in that town with any proximity to power cares about the people, liberty, or morality.

    • #14
    • November 12, 2017, at 4:46 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  15. jtb1082 Inactive

    I cannot believe anyone falls for this. This is to me so transparent. It makes me question if the GOP is capable of doing anything. I feel like I am in a knife fight in an alley with thugs like Jeremiah Wright and those who ordered the murder of Seth Rich. I am fighting these goons who will stop at nothing and when I look around for backup, I see Thurston Howell III fussing with his cuff links and virtue signaling.

    • #15
    • November 12, 2017, at 5:40 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  16. Robert McReynolds Inactive

    jtb1082 (View Comment):
    I cannot believe anyone falls for this. This is to me so transparent. It makes me question if the GOP is capable of doing anything. I feel like I am in a knife fight in an alley with thugs like Jeremiah Wright and those who ordered the murder of Seth Rich. I am fighting these goons who will stop at nothing and when I look around for backup, I see Thurston Howell III fussing with his cuff links and virtue signaling.

    That’s just it. No one is “falling” for anything. Some have propagated this, others are using it to get their desired ends. Not one member of the GOP Senate leadership wanted the guy. Immediately after his primary win we were treated to tax evasion. That did nothing to his poll numbers. Now about a month out we are treated to a forty year old story about a 14 year old girl which has spurred multiple headlines about Bannon losing. Well Bannon made open remarks about taking McConnell down and we are supposed to just accept at face value a questionable story timed just right to beat a Bannon candidate. Yeah this isn’t a case of falling for anything.

    • #16
    • November 12, 2017, at 6:51 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  17. RufusRJones Member

    Trump wins and they had no plan to wipe out or fix the ACA. Seven freaking years to get ready.

    Corporatist Socialism Forever!

    Who are the “bad people” here? Tell me.

    • #17
    • November 12, 2017, at 6:59 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  18. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Why do we have “Bannon candidates” at all? Why does anyone give one second’s credence to anything Bannon says? Beats me.

    • #18
    • November 12, 2017, at 7:23 AM PST
    • 1 like
  19. Profile Photo Member

    Jonah Goldberg: “And if it’s a contest between James Comey’s credibility and Donald Trump’s credibility, I think Comey’s brand wins that 10 out of 10 times.”

    Why would anyone question the impartiality of the National Review crowd?

    • #19
    • November 12, 2017, at 7:29 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  20. RufusRJones Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    Why do we have “Bannon candidates” at all? Why does anyone give one second’s credence to anything Bannon says? Beats me.

    Never ending 2% GDP, identity politics, and an opioid crisis will do that to a political system.

    • #20
    • November 12, 2017, at 7:40 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  21. Dave-L Inactive

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    Why is government moral when it’s so centralized and it produces so many “non-public goods”? How many ways have we made it uncountable in the sense of what the Founders intended? Interventionist Fed, cartels everywhere, inflation and asset bubbles, income tax, direct election of Senators, intergenerational theft, every single government actuarial system is about to implode, since Nixon the media became a weapon of the statists etc. etc. etc.

    I care far more how they vote and explain policy than about who they are and their “moral leadership” whatever that is supposed to mean.

    …I think all of that stuff that Ben Sasse goes on and on about is very counterproductive right now. …

    This is precisely what is wrong. Does anyone truly believe that the GOP leaders want to limit government? Does anyone really believe these people care about Moore’s alleged foibles as opposed to there being another rabble rouser in the Senate who can call Mitch out for being a lying serpent? … No one in that town with any proximity to power cares about the people, liberty, or morality.

    I’m through with morality as well these days. If the people in government who break *laws* – which are at least codified and reasonably objective – never see justice for it, why should we voluntarily subject ourselves to a broad moral standard which only ever seems to be used against us?

    • #21
    • November 12, 2017, at 7:43 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  22. RufusRJones Member

    Catherine Englebrecht: IRS’ Apologies, Trump’s DOJ, Voter Fraud, and Will Elijah Cummings Serve Time? via @ricochet Whisky Politics 

    • #22
    • November 12, 2017, at 7:55 AM PST
    • Like
  23. Tedley Member

    @peterrobinson, regarding your comment about Christmas music: I’m in Japan, and I’ve been hearing Christmas music in one major grocery store chain here since late last month.

    • #23
    • November 12, 2017, at 8:10 AM PST
    • Like
  24. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    BD1 (View Comment):
    Jonah Goldberg: “And if it’s a contest between James Comey’s credibility and Donald Trump’s credibility, I think Comey’s brand wins that 10 out of 10 times.”

    Why would anyone question the impartiality of the National Review crowd?

    Most of National Review contributed to “The Case Against Trump”. They never claimed impartiality where he is concerned. You should go back to reading them.

    • #24
    • November 12, 2017, at 9:10 AM PST
    • 1 like
  25. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    Why do we have “Bannon candidates” at all? Why does anyone give one second’s credence to anything Bannon says? Beats me.

    Never ending 2% GDP, identity politics, and an opioid crisis will do that to a political system.

    I still don’t see anyone could think Bannon is the answer to any of those problems.

    • #25
    • November 12, 2017, at 10:47 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  26. RufusRJones Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    Why do we have “Bannon candidates” at all? Why does anyone give one second’s credence to anything Bannon says? Beats me.

    Never ending 2% GDP, identity politics, and an opioid crisis will do that to a political system.

    I still don’t see anyone could think Bannon is the answer to any of those problems.

    I’m not saying it makes any practical sense, because it doesn’t.

    David Stockman is the only guy that knows how to fix this. In the mean time it’s just about raw political power.

    • #26
    • November 12, 2017, at 11:09 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  27. RufusRJones Member

    How did it come to this?

    • #27
    • November 12, 2017, at 11:36 AM PST
    • 1 like
  28. JcTPatriot Inactive

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    How did it come to this?

    My friend, the Narrative has been written. Even if the lady completely recants her story about Moore and begs forgiveness, the Freaks Of The Left will call him horrible names for the rest of his life. When he dies, it till be the first thing the MSM says: “Roy Moore, who faced allegations of child molestation, has died today…”

    I remember I had visited family in 2004, and I was driving home from Houston to Central Texas one evening. While listening to the radio, ABC News broke in with news that our beloved Ronald Reagan had died. Less than 90 seconds elapsed before ABC mentioned “Iran-Contra”. I turned off the radio in disgust and called my dad so I could hear a friendly voice.

    This is how the Left works: Intolerance and Hate. It is all they have. It is all they are.

    • #28
    • November 12, 2017, at 1:19 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  29. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    I say screw morals, mostly.

    Ah Trumpisms true core.

    Why do morals matter. Morals matter because people don’t actually know what policies work and don’t work. While in a broad outline you can know what good laws are, the reality is that governing always comes down to specifics, and what specifics you choose is pretty much always based on poorly understood social and economic phenomenon that are not easy to predict. What does raising of lowering a tax 2% actually mean? Who knows? The people with models telling you what it will do I don’t think once have ever accurately predicted anything or if their prediction is true be able to formally demonstrate causality. So really governing is not about policies or intentions, everyone has good intentions, and if people are honest no one really knows their policies can, will, or have worked. So what you really have is a process of making decisions and achieving consensus, that can alter course as needed. To think of it is a goal oriented process therefore is wrong. All you have is a process of means. Thus you need good people to run it, because bad people of low moral character are more likely to abuse the system, and twist the means. Bad means lead to bad ends. So 100 honest and virtuous Democrats would be better for America in the long run than 100 sorted and degenerate Republicans. Even if the Republicans can be said to have better policies. At least by how we reckon policies. Of course neither Democrats nor Republicans have a monopoly on virtue or vice. Which is why it is up to the voters to determine if candidates meet standards of virtue. Often both candidates are fine and so the question is policy preference. Other times one of the candidates shows a lack of character and then regardless of policy they should be disqualified. The hard part is when both candidates are scum like in the last presidential election. Then people can make the case for policy preference, but this scenario is the thin edge of the wedge. When both candidates are scum you get a third candidate.

    • #29
    • November 12, 2017, at 1:58 PM PST
    • Like
  30. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    @jctpatriot The GOP used to have some standards and principles. Now, for Trumpers and the Bannon crowd, at least, all that matters is winning. @rufusrjones I guess I better go buy some gold as Mr. Stockman advises in all those ads then ;)

    • #30
    • November 12, 2017, at 1:58 PM PST
    • 1 like